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Alyn Oakenfist

Will Dawn be important moving forward?

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So yet again applying the concept of Checkov's Sword, given that Dawn exists and has yet to serve any narrative purpose, what do you think will happen to it moving forward?

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34 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

So yet again applying the concept of Checkov's Sword, given that Dawn exists and has yet to serve any narrative purpose, what do you think will happen to it moving forward?

Yes.

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On 10/19/2020 at 1:11 PM, Lady Dacey said:

I hope young Edric Dayne is now on his way to Startfall to retrieve this magic sword. 

The popular theory is that Darkstar was invented because without the 5 year gap Edric was too young to wield Dawn.

Edited by FictionIsntReal
5 year gap

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1 minute ago, FictionIsntReal said:

The popular theory is that Darkstar was invented because without the 5 year gap Edric was too young to wield Dawn.

That’s depressing if true...

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1 hour ago, FictionIsntReal said:

The popular theory is that Darkstar was invented because without the 5 year gap Edric was too young to wield Dawn.

He isn't though. Robb and Jon had true steel longswords at 14, Joffrey at 13. Jon got Longclaw at 15. Ned Dayne was 12 in 299 AC, a squire participating in battle (unlike Gendry and Arya, he doesn't stay behind when the brotherhood attacks the Brave Companions). He hadn't killed anyone yet, but it stands to reason he bears a sword. As a nobleman, he has most definitely been trained in arms. We are fast approaching 301 in Winds. So Ned will be 14. Dawn is a magic sword. Though not of valyrian steel, we can expect some special properties come attached to the sword, so even if it's a great sword, maybe it's light enough for him to bear? 

Edited by Lady Dacey

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On 10/19/2020 at 3:11 PM, Lady Dacey said:

I hope young Edric Dayne is now on his way to Startfall to retrieve this magic sword. 

Yes, that’s a very neat idea. Fingers crossed. :)

 

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8 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

I always thought Dawn and the whole Dayne connection was a red herring to detract from R + L = J

I think so too, but in part only. I mean, I think the Daynes are a distraction to a degree. But I’m not so sure about Dawn. 
It is the sword Martin would wield  if he had to pick one sword from ASoiaF after all. :)

 

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I am of the opinion that the fake R + L = J is a red herring to detract from Dawn and the whole Dayne connection.

team [143] all ya'all

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On 10/20/2020 at 6:07 PM, Lady Dacey said:

He isn't though. Robb and Jon had true steel longswords at 14, Joffrey at 13. Jon got Longclaw at 15. Ned Dayne was 12 in 299 AC, a squire participating in battle (unlike Gendry and Arya, he doesn't stay behind when the brotherhood attacks the Brave Companions). He hadn't killed anyone yet, but it stands to reason he bears a sword. As a nobleman, he has most definitely been trained in arms. We are fast approaching 301 in Winds. So Ned will be 14. Dawn is a magic sword. Though not of valyrian steel, we can expect some special properties come attached to the sword, so even if it's a great sword, maybe it's light enough for him to bear? 

IIRC Dawn is a greatsword.  Ice was as tall as Robb at 15.  It would be difficult for a little guy to effectively wield a weapon that is larger than he is regardless of weight.   From what I gather the swords are not so heavy, a greatsword weighing in under 9 pounds.  Dawn is made of an unknown material, so that could make it heavier or lighter than regular steel.  If it's got magical properties there is an outside chance that it could act much in the way of VS, seeming to direct its own movements.   I reckon much depends on how tall young Edric actually is.  

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On 10/19/2020 at 10:08 AM, Alyn Oakenfist said:

So yet again applying the concept of Checkov's Sword, given that Dawn exists and has yet to serve any narrative purpose, what do you think will happen to it moving forward?

It's pretty obvious that Dawn = Lightbringer in the most literal terms.   However, how likely is it that Dawn really is the end all beat all with those rare Valyrian Steel swords floating around?  The farther I get from new intel the more it seems Dawn is either a red herring or completely opposite of what we think.   Many of the named swords have counterparts in name only.   Red Rain/Blackfyre, Lamentation/Lady Forlorn, Widows Wail/Orphan Maker.  The natural counterpart to Dawn is Nightfall.   That can't be good for either of the swords.  

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33 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

I always thought Dawn and the whole Dayne connection was a red herring to detract from R + L = J

I thought it was both a red herring, and symbolic clues. Ned took Dawn/Jon to Starfall. Dawn/Jon are on their respective walls waiting for someone worthy to wield them. White wolf/white sword etc. All linked back to Syrio telling Arya she is a sword, meaning in prophecies and legends, swords can be people. No idea what that means in the long run though since Dawn/Jon is just waiting at the moment. But if Darkstar gets the sword, then maybe Jon will have someone unworthy try to wield him like Stannis? If Edrick gets the sword then Jon will be wielded by someone worthy, likely Bran/Bloodraven?

As to the lightbringer symbolism, if RLJ is true, and he is true born then he would be a flaming red sword symbolically. Then we are given the stone wolf pommel, and ugly wood hilt symbolism. Linking to his Stark blood being significant as it gives him a symbolic hilt allowing someone to wield him safely. Dany is also a red sword, but has no hilt, as she's pure dragon. This is why Illyrio and Vary's can't control her and their plans keep getting wrecked, making them look bad and unreliable to Aegons crew. 

I don't have a fully fleshed out theory or anything, just noticed some strong symbolic parallels. Of course this also ties in to the Ice=Oath keeper+Widows wail, both of which are red. So that's one of the reasons I've never made a full theory as the clues and parallels seem to cover multiple swords. Although, LML did have that theory about Dawn being the original ice (that's what set me thinking on this in the first place) so maybe all 3(4 if you count intact ice) of these swords symbolism is linked. :dunno:

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I really hope so, but it’s late in the day now, so late in the day in fact us readers...... well me, am starting to put my faith entirely on what we’ve seen on screen and am becoming less and less enamoured with the idea of a last minute magical sword appearing in someone’s hand.

 

That being said, the stone dragons aren’t seen at all until the very end of the first Fitz trilogy, and they are still damn good books

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2 hours ago, Bronn Urgandy said:

 well me, am starting to put my faith entirely on what we’ve seen on screen

DO NOT DO THIS!   
do not let the show poison your mind!!

the books are not going to end like the stupid dumptrucks full of money have.

i have no proof of this of course but do not believe in the blasphemy.

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20 hours ago, Yaya said:

DO NOT DO THIS!   
do not let the show poison your mind!!

the books are not going to end like the stupid dumptrucks full of money have.

i have no proof of this of course but do not believe in the blasphemy.

Haha sorry, I meant it as an expression, nothing to do with the actual tv show. I meant that we are getting to the point in the story (for me) where the resolution must come from characters and objects that have been seen and featured in the story thus far. A new magical hero or the introduction of a new magical sword could ruin the feel of the mammoth works that have come already, it may not, but it’s a possibility 

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Will Dawn be important moving forward?  Perhaps, if there is a Dayne waiting in line to claim it.  Jon would never make my list of favorite characters but if B + A or even N + A is true, yeah.  Lord Commander Snooze will get to claim Dawn.  R + A, Arthur + L.  Any of those would open the doors for him to claim Dawn. 

Edited by James West

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@Bronn Urgandy cool :)

i don't think that we will get any new new hero(es) to be our hero(es), it is my belief that we know the hero(es) already.   hopefully the only "new" things will be realizations of things thought falsely &/or just incorrectly interpreted.

sadly, i can't move this thread forward - i have no speculation whatsoever as to how the Dayne/Dawn connection will tie into the story yet.  it is my other hope that, like @James West typed, lord commander snooze won't be the guy to do the claiming ...

 

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19 hours ago, James West said:

Will Dawn be important moving forward?  Perhaps, if there is a Dayne waiting in line to claim it.  Jon would never make my list of favorite characters but if B + A or even N + A is true, yeah.  Lord Commander Snooze will get to claim Dawn.  R + A, Arthur + L.  Any of those would open the doors for him to claim Dawn. 

Even assuming R + L = J is true, Jon has Dayne blood. More than you expect, even, since his grandparents AND great-grandparents were incestuous marriages.

Aegon V- 50% Dayne (married Betha Blackwood)

Jaeharys- 25% (married his sister so blood passes down undiminished)

Aerys (The Mad King) - 25% (married his sister so blood passes down undiminished)

Rhaegar - 25% (with Lyanna)

Jon- 12.5% Dayne by blood.

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