Jaxom 1974 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: It wasn't enough that you made Jaxoming a thing, you Jaxom'd our entire country, maybe our species and planet. These are not simply things that one lets go.... @Jaime L is responsible for Jaxoming. He's the one who recognized I'm simply to awesome to not be associated with the leagues when I'm not in them. He knows ya'll need to know I'm always out there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centrist Simon Steele Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 33 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said: Some of the hardest of hard-core Bernie folks need to get on board with the idea that there are just some things that have to be done incrementally. The idea of shifting straight to the hard left on everything is such a third party in the Presidential Election move. Find that happy medium nationally now, be it the Bookers or Buttigiegs of the world and concentrate on the state and local levels grooming your next Squad members to have them ready to go when the time is right... I'll say it again--the incremental shift over the years has been to the right, not the left, so that's likely why so many are militant on this. ETClarify: I think the Democratic party needs to demonstrate meaningful incremental shifts to the left instead of allowing the Republicans to pull them right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Jaxom 1974 said: Is it too far left or is it insufficient marketing and messaging? "Defund the Police", "Medicare for All", etc...there isn't anything wrong with it all, but when you're pulling in how many hundreds of thousands of new voters, and you can't clearly express your aims or allow the other side to control the narrative...isn't that more of an issue...? Who actually coined "defund the police" anyway? Because I agree with the earlier point that the very name, misunderstood as it is, probably did push some people back to Trump. I'm all for radically reimagining policing, but you have to market it properly. Because any time you have to qualify your slogan with "let me explain what that means" you've lost the messaging war. Letting Republicans brand Democratic ideas or putting dumb, unpopular names on a reasonable idea is a big Dem weakness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 6 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said: Is it too far left or is it insufficient marketing and messaging? "Defund the Police", "Medicare for All", etc...there isn't anything wrong with it all, but when you're pulling in how many hundreds of thousands of new voters, and you can't clearly express your aims or allow the other side to control the narrative...isn't that more of an issue...? But this was the progressive message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 1 minute ago, DanteGabriel said: Who actually coined "defund the police" anyway? Because I agree with the earlier point that the very name, misunderstood as it is, probably did push some people back to Trump. I'm all for radically reimagining policing, but you have to market it properly. Because any time you have to qualify your slogan with "let me explain what that means" you've lost the messaging war. Letting Republicans brand Democratic ideas or putting dumb, unpopular names on a reasonable idea is a big Dem weakness. Absolutely. Based on the way Mayor Pete has approached all of those Fox News hits he's done lately, how do we get him coining phrases and presenting plans... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Killjoybear said: But this was the progressive message. And they need better marketing and pitch men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterfell is Burning Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 17 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said: I would stop giving a toss about Florida tbh. That state has consistently drifted to the right. So they should not really be the political center of your thinking. I think it's less the state drifted to the right (or not just that, at least) than the Democratic party due to the left. Among the 399 billion reasons why Bernie Sanders calling himself a socialist was utterly stupid (and people following him and doing the same just as bad) is that it automatically alienates many people that ran away from left-wing dictatorships like Cuba, Nicaragua or Venezuela, or even emigrated more recently from countries that had left-wing, socialist or socialist identified ones searching better economic opportunities. It's essentially a very effective trigger word, and Sanders and co. gifted it to Trump for no reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 22 minutes ago, OnionAhaiReborn said: Where Democrats have apparently under performed in Senate races- Maine, NC, MI, you could throw Montana in there- the candidates nominated were also moderates. None of them supported, for instance, Medicare for all. Claiming the problem is that the Democratic Party went too far left is completely baffling. I certainly don't think there's any reason to do any left bashing, but the implication a leftist could have done better or even matched the performances in Maine, North Carolina, or Montana is absurd. Maybe Michigan, but that'd be due to candidate quality not ideology. 14 minutes ago, Killjoybear said: So yes, I think the problem could be that the Democratic party went too far left, or at least was perceived to. Cuban voters in Florida certainly felt that way, and ignoring that ignores the reality. I emphatically agree with the rest of the post until this. The Dems are always going to be disingenuously depicted as too far left and socialist, often with rather shocking propaganda that the GOP employed in targeted Cuban and South American areas. There's nothing really the Dems can do about that. 16 minutes ago, IheartIheartTesla said: Yo its now time to dump all our money into GA special election runoffs. They are definitely gonna be shitshows. As someone mentioned earlier, I feel very bad for @Chataya de Fleury. 14 minutes ago, Maithanet said: I'm not totally convinced that money is wasted, I think it has just been mismanaged. Money definitely isn't wasted. You need to at least match or ideally marginally outspend your opponent. After that though it's rather entirely pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 11 minutes ago, IheartIheartTesla said: Who got it right in the predictions if this pans out? If that's how it shakes out, then in just the state winners I was 46/50. I badly whiffed on Iowa and Texas, and I seemingly had North Carolina and Georgia flipped. I was right at least to not trust anything about Florida or Ohio. But I assumed Biden's margins would be far better than they are in all the battleground states, and my senate and house predictions were way off. Clearly I put way too much faith in the polls overall. I said after 2016 I wouldn't do that again, but then in 2018 the polls were generally pretty good (except for Florida, which is why I never trusted it). On another note, I am glad to see that at least so far Fox News hasn't really been following along with Trump's playback. They even cut away from Guiliani's press conference about a lawsuit to project that Biden had won Michigan. Hopefully that keeps up until things are settled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 If PA, NC and GA go for Trump I would have gotten it perfectly. And PA was the one that I thought might be close and get bogged down in legal hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 "Defund the police" and "M4A" aren't what Biden or the DNC ran on or promoted though. They ran on increasing police budgets, returning to normacly, and a public option. Biden was pretty adamant about not supporting M4A or the GND. At best they narrowly beat Trump. I don't see how this election is any kind of condemnation of policies that neither candidate ran on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 I'm really hoping that Pennsylvania brings in another shift and keeps working over night this time. If Wisconsin was able to do it, they should do. They've got to see the risks if this drags out another day or two (assuming 2 out of NV/AZ/GA aren't called everywhere for Biden tonight, rendering it moot). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, Fez said: On another note, I am glad to see that at least so far Fox News hasn't really been following along with Trump's playback. They even cut away from Guiliani's press conference about a lawsuit to project that Biden had won Michigan. Hopefully that keeps up until things are settled. Fox's decision desk is not like the rest of FNC. They're objective professionals just like other networks'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 6 minutes ago, Winterfell is Burning said: I think it's less the state drifted to the right (or not just that, at least) than the Democratic party due to the left. Among the 399 billion reasons why Bernie Sanders calling himself a socialist was utterly stupid (and people following him and doing the same just as bad) is that it automatically alienates many people that ran away from left-wing dictatorships like Cuba, Nicaragua or Venezuela, or even emigrated more recently from countries that had left-wing, socialist or socialist identified ones searching better economic opportunities. It's essentially a very effective trigger word, and Sanders and co. gifted it to Trump for no reason. That's why elected DeSantis? Nice story, but not buying into it. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, larrytheimp said: "Defund the police" and "M4A" aren't what Biden or the DNC ran on or promoted though. They ran on increasing police budgets, returning to normacly, and a public option. Biden was pretty adamant about not supporting M4A or the GND. At best they narrowly beat Trump. I don't see how this election is any kind of condemnation of policies that neither candidate ran on. But they are what the protests and news over the summer were about. And was a big deal in a lot of cities and states. The problem isn't Biden denouncing it - it's that he's guilty because his allies were promoting it. AOC, Warren - all said something about it. That's going to hurt Biden even if that isn't his view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 7 minutes ago, larrytheimp said: "Defund the police" and "M4A" aren't what Biden or the DNC ran on or promoted though. They ran on increasing police budgets, returning to normacly, and a public option. Biden was pretty adamant about not supporting M4A or the GND. At best they narrowly beat Trump. I don't see how this election is any kind of condemnation of policies that neither candidate ran on. So how is it that Trump voters claimed over and over that Biden wanted to destroy the police and let dark skinned criminals fondle white America's children in underground pizza lairs? Could it be that it's not actually about formulating policies to appeal to them, and more about a couple of generations of absolute demonization of Democrats by an elaborate apparatus of Republican propaganda? But they want civility and unity! They told us so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 If I'm reading this right, Biden is currently 243 - 214 against Trump. That should really be 253, because Wisconsin is effectively in the bag as well. Despite Republican requests for a recount, Biden's lead is 20,000 and no US electoral recount has ever resulted in change of more than 400 votes. So Biden is 17 votes short. But he is projected to win both Nevada (6) and Arizona (11) which gives him exactly 270. But on top of that, he is now looking increasingly likely to take Pennsylvania (20) and even Georgia (16) is still in play, though less likely to flip. Trump's path to victory means he absolutely has to hold Pennsylvania and Arizona, which is looking like a really big ask, as both of them are trending against him. One possible and not at all implausible outcome is that he only wins North Carolina (15 votes) and all other outstanding ECs go to Biden. Or he only holds NC and Georgia. IT'S NOT OVER. But it's looking sunnier than it did even a couple of hours ago. Fox has also said fuck it and called both Wisconsin and Arizona for Biden, leaving him only 6 short. Literally one more state does it for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, DMC said: Fox's decision desk is not like the rest of FNC. They're objective professionals just like other networks'. Right. But someone higher than them at Fox had to decide to let the decision desk stay in charge of the coverage today rather than hand things off to the regular folks. I wonder how much longer that lasts though; hopefully until things are settled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, Fez said: Right. But someone higher than them at Fox had to decide to let the decision desk stay in charge of the coverage today rather than hand things off to the regular folks. Agreed, that is a noteworthy change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterfell is Burning Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said: That's why elected DeSantis? Nice story, but not buying into it. Sorry. It was a very close race, closer than Trump vs Biden is, against a Democratic opponent that had his share of problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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