LØkI - see ya later, LØkIgator (Spoilers)

[Rhom]

13 minutes ago, DMC said:

Absolutely.  Besides, methinks Thor has enough love interests.  Natalie Portman, Tessa Thompson, Jaime Alexander, all in Love and Thunder.  Fuck off Hemsworth.

I don’t recall… was he still fat at the end of Endgame?

[DMC]

Just now, Rhom said:

I don’t recall… was he still fat at the end of Endgame?

Yes.

[polishgenius]

35 minutes ago, Which Tyler said:

I can't see an of these TV shows ending with a different main storyline than they started with. They don't want to make it that, in order to understand the films, you have to have watched the shows - that's a pretty good way of wringing the neck of the golden goose

 

Well Wanda is going to be in Dr Strange and the Multiverse of Madness and Falcon/Soldier made Sam Captain America complete with costume etc so I think that horse has largely bolted. The Hawkeye series is also going to feature at least one character freshly introduced in Black Widow too so they're not trying to build separate lines for movie and show at all. 

 

[argonak]

1 hour ago, polishgenius said:

I reckon there's a pretty good chance this Hiddleston Loki dies too in the upcoming episode, and the one returning to the main universe will be SylvieLoki.

That or Sylvie dies and 'our' Loki turns into a woman in grief/as tribute/because he thinks the idea of a lady Loki is aces, but while that would be pretty nice in confirming the fluidity of the character, it'd be storytelling wise a bit shit.

 

I would personally expect both of them to come back.  Having them both to interact can lead to all kinds of interesting storylines.  Killing either one off will just be. . . boring.  

Sylvie has spent her whole life on the run / at war.  What does she do when that's over with?  Probably just wander until she finds a new purpose.  Loki finally has someone he really seems to care about, so if you take her away that's also boring, he's almost back to square 1, except at least he can go try and make friends with Thor again. 

But together they've got this romance angle to work out, something we haven't seen Loki deal with at all before.  And frankly after all they're going through for each other in the last few episodes, it seems really rude of the writers to take that away suddenly.  

Hiddleston said in an interview recently he loves playing Loki and would do it forever.  I hope Marvel keeps him AND Martino. 

[Corvinus85]

40 minutes ago, DMC said:

Absolutely.  Besides, methinks Thor has enough love interests.  Natalie Portman, Tessa Thompson, Jaime Alexander, all in Love and Thunder.  Fuck off Hemsworth.

Valkyrie is gay. And envy does not become you.

[DMC]

4 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

Valkyrie is gay. And envy does not become you.

I thought she was bi, no?  Granted, I recall Thompson saying Valkyrie would be "looking for her queen," but in-universe they already exchanged plenty of fuck me eyes in Ragnarok.

And I'll get right on my application to jelly school.

[Which Tyler]

1 hour ago, polishgenius said:

 

Well Wanda is going to be in Dr Strange and the Multiverse of Madness and Falcon/Soldier made Sam Captain America complete with costume etc so I think that horse has largely bolted. The Hawkeye series is also going to feature at least one character freshly introduced in Black Widow too so they're not trying to build separate lines for movie and show at all.

So you mean that, for someone only following the films, Wanda evolved all the way from meeting Dr Strange,to being in a film with Dr Strange.

Meanwhile Sam progressed all the way from becoming Captain America to becoming Captain America with a costume...

[polishgenius]

11 minutes ago, Which Tyler said:

So you mean that Wanda evolved all the way from being an avenger to being an avenger;

I'd be very surprised if Wanda's appearance in Multiverse of Madness had no reference or lead-on from her becoming the Scarlet Witch in WandaVision, even if the theories that she breaks into the Multiverse to try to get her children back are overly grandiose. 

 

They'll undoubtedly look to make it so you can get by in the majority of the films without having seen it, but that's not the same as leaving the plot unchanged.  

[Which Tyler]

8 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

I'd be very surprised if Wanda's appearance in Multiverse of Madness had no reference or lead-on from her becoming the Scarlet Witch in WandaVision, even if the theories that she breaks into the Multiverse to try to get her children back are overly grandiose. 

 

They'll undoubtedly look to make it so you can get by in the majority of the films without having seen it, but that's not the same as leaving the plot unchanged.  

Ah, so she's changed her name from Wanda Maximoff to Scarlet Witch; with her costume changing from red to red.

As a non-comic reader, I can' see anything that changed enough between the end of Endgame and the end of Wandavision that would confuse any other non-comic reader who didn't watch the show. I know nothing about what's going to happen in a film that nobody's seen yet.

Same with Sam - he went from wearing a red and black suit with wings and carrying a shield to wearing a shitty Cap-esque suit with wings and carrying a shield.

[DMC]

1 minute ago, Which Tyler said:

Same with Sam - he went from wearing a red and black suit with wings and carrying a shield to wearing a Cap-ish suit with wings and carrying a shield.

But the new suit was made in Wakanda!

[Corvinus85]

12 minutes ago, Which Tyler said:

So you mean that, for someone only following the films, Wanda evolved all the way from meeting Dr Strange,to being in a film with Dr Strange.

Meanwhile Sam progressed all the way from becoming Captain America to becoming Captain America with a costume...

Anyone only following the movies would be surprised by the extent of Wanda's powers and that she is now officially the Scarlet Witch. The show also served as origin story for Monica Rambeau, so anyone only watching movies will wonder about her when she appears in whichever film. 

For Sam, his character was given some complexity and showed that he earned the Cap title on his own. And they would wonder why his new wings are so tough and are basically as good as the shield.

[Which Tyler]

1 minute ago, Corvinus85 said:

Anyone only following the movies would be surprised by the extent of Wanda's powers and that she is now officially the Scarlet Witch. The show also served as origin story for Monica Rambeau, so anyone only watching movies will wonder about her when she appears in whichever film.

Erm - not really on power; she's gone from insanely overpowered to insanely overpowered; in a world where the only limit on power is plot convenience.
But yes, there's an origin story for a new character, who it's highly unlikely will just be thrown in as if everyone already knows her - she'll get an introduction.

1 minute ago, Corvinus85 said:

For Sam, his character was given some complexity and showed that he earned the Cap title on his own. And they would wonder why his new wings are so tough and are basically as good as the shield.

Wow, some complexity - complexity that changes nothing; and some tough wings that watchers of the show queried, and can be explained with half a sentence.

[DMC]

In terms of changes from the shows, there now is a White Vision out there whereas viewers of just the films would presume he was still "dead" as of Infinity War.

ETA:  Another one - Sharon Carter is now eeeevil.

[Which Tyler]

16 minutes ago, DMC said:

In terms of changes from the shows, there now is a White Vision out there whereas viewers of just the films would presume he was still "dead" as of Infinity War.

ETA:  Another one - Sharon Carter is now eeeevil.

Fair points - though (like Rambeau) White Vision will doubtless be introduced rather than just thrown in with everyone expected to already know. These intro.s don't need much, but I'd bet that they'll exist.

Sharon Carter being evil... yeah, that's a new thing - let's see if the audience are supposed to already know

[Kalbear]

1 hour ago, Corvinus85 said:

Anyone only following the movies would be surprised by the extent of Wanda's powers and that she is now officially the Scarlet Witch. The show also served as origin story for Monica Rambeau, so anyone only watching movies will wonder about her when she appears in whichever film. 

She kicked Thanos' ass in Avengers Endgame. If they were surprised, I think that's on them

I don't think for a second they're going to kill off or even thought about killing off the most popular character in their most successful TV show so far. That'd be like killing off baby yoda. Their merch and marketing doesn't remotely hint at that sort of thing. I think it's far more likely they'll kill off Sylvie. 

[Heartofice]

Marvel already bottled not killing off Loki once, I can’t see them doing that, only to kill him later. 

[Corvinus85]

10 minutes ago, Kaligator said:

She kicked Thanos' ass in Avengers Endgame. If they were surprised, I think that's on them

She changed matter on a large scale in the show. She created Vision out of the energy of the mind stone. All she used against Thanos was telekinesis.  So yes, extremely different.

[DMC]

Reading this article, it's pretty clear they've never really had a longterm plan for Loki/Hiddleston and his repeated resurrections have as much to do with happenstance as anything.  I don't think Feige views him as some type of cash cow, and other than the romance angle with Sylvie (which admittedly I'm biased against), there's not much more to do with Hiddleston's Loki - with the very real possibility creatively he'd become very stale very quickly.  OTOH, the fact Hiddleston is not only willing but eager to continue playing the role makes it much more convenient.

[Jaxom 1974]

1 hour ago, Which Tyler said:

Fair points - though (like Rambeau) White Vision will doubtless be introduced rather than just thrown in with everyone expected to already know. These intro.s don't need much, but I'd bet that they'll exist.

Sharon Carter being evil... yeah, that's a new thing - let's see if the audience are supposed to already know

Of course Monica is going to get some sort of "re-introduction/introduction" in the next Captain Marvel movie...it's going to be thirty years later...if she hadn't appeared in WandaVision, it would be needed...

Sharon Carter only appear to be evil...I'm still on the deep cover and/or Skrull agent bandwagon...not sure how they'll work that out, though I'm not sure she's in another movie, unless they actually do make a Captain America 4...

 

And if any Loki dies, it'll be Sylvie...I think "our" Loki stays and runs whatever the TVA becomes with Moebius...

[Kalbear]

31 minutes ago, DMC said:

Reading this article, it's pretty clear they've never really had a longterm plan for Loki/Hiddleston and his repeated resurrections have as much to do with happenstance as anything.  I don't think Feige views him as some type of cash cow, and other than the romance angle with Sylvie (which admittedly I'm biased against), there's not much more to do with Hiddleston's Loki - with the very real possibility creatively he'd become very stale very quickly.  OTOH, the fact Hiddleston is not only willing but eager to continue playing the role makes it much more convenient.

Well, they didn't start having a longterm plan - but it was pretty clear that they knew about his absurd popularity and have been planning this tie-in for a while now. I just don't see that they're going to kill him, especially given Hiddleston is so excited to play him. It's not like Evans or RDJ wanting out of the role after their contracts are up, he's genuinely eager.

There's quite a bit of lore and things to spelunk in the comics for Loki (though IMO Kid Loki is the best of that lot), but I also didn't think they'd be going full TVA with him. That alone, assuming it has Kang ties, makes him significantly more interesting for phase 4.