LØkI - see ya later, LØkIgator (Spoilers)

[DMC]

23 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

I think "our" Loki stays and runs whatever the TVA becomes with Moebius...

Well, "our" Loki's girlfriend wants to destroy the TVA, not control it.  And Mobius just said his plan is to burn the TVA to the ground.  I guess if it turns out another Loki is behind the TVA Hiddleston could play that guy, but it'd be pretty weird narratively for our Loki to want to continue the TVA in any way.

2 minutes ago, Kaligator said:

Well, they didn't start having a longterm plan - but it was pretty clear that they knew about his absurd popularity and have been planning this tie-in for a while now.

That article explicitly states when they wrote Loki's scenes in Endgame Feige wasn't planning any TV show tie-in to explain what happened to him (albeit they did decide on doing the show by the time Endgame came out).

5 minutes ago, Kaligator said:

There's quite a bit of lore and things to spelunk in the comics for Loki (though IMO Kid Loki is the best of that lot), but I also didn't think they'd be going full TVA with him. That alone, assuming it has Kang ties, makes him significantly more interesting for phase 4. 

I mean, there's always more comic lore to mine with virtually all these characters (at least I assume).  But Hiddleston's Loki at this point may have more cumulative screentime than any other MCU character.  And he's fully completed his arc -- hell he's been redeemed twice now.  I'm not making any predictions or anything, just if it were me, I'd wrap it up here.  And while I suppose the finale could disappoint, right now I'd argue this would be going out on top.

[argonak]

9 minutes ago, DMC said:

  And he's fully completed his arc -- hell he's been redeemed twice now.  I'm not making any predictions or anything, just if it were me, I'd wrap it up here.  And while I suppose the finale could disappoint, right now I'd argue this would be going out on top.

But just because he's completed a redemption arc doesn't mean he's "done."  Killing him off is the writer's easy way out. It means you don't have to consider all the "now whats" of what a redeemed villain really means.  Vader is pretty much the ultimate version of this.  Sure, Luke forgave him, and that made Vader momentarily change his whole behavior and thinking and this "redeemed him."  But now what?  How does Vader go on (if he didn't die).  Does he go on a crusade of penitence, to help those he harmed, to try to earn the redemption that Luke freely gave him?

Loki is in the same situation if he doesn't die.  He's done a great deal of harm in his life.  And while in Ragnarok Loki just decided to use his evil ways to help his family, it was still all about praise and adoration, not doing right because it was right.

This Loki is changing at a more fundamental level.  I think its actually a much better sort of redemption.  Loki actually seems to be trying to be a better person, and for the right reasons.  I just hope that isn't the end of him.  I would really like to see even more character development and Hiddleston is just such an awesome actor, and he and Martino have good chemistry when they're acting together.

[DMC]

6 minutes ago, argonak said:

Killing him off is the writer's easy way out. It means you don't have to consider all the "now whats" of what a redeemed villain really means.  Vader is pretty much the ultimate version of this.  Sure, Luke forgave him, and that made Vader momentarily change his whole behavior and thinking and this "redeemed him."  But now what?  How does Vader go on (if he didn't die).  Does he go on a crusade of penitence, to help those he harmed, to try to earn the redemption that Luke freely gave him?

Meh, anthologizing Loki "making it right" really doesn't appeal to me -- and would very likely embody the character going stale IMHO.  It also reminds me of this:

 

11 minutes ago, argonak said:

And while in Ragnarok Loki just decided to use his evil ways to help his family, it was still all about praise and adoration, not doing right because it was right.

Oh, I strongly disagree there.  I love when Loki shows up at the end and is proclaims "your savior is here" as Thor laughs while getting his ass kicked by Hela.  Yes, Loki was still Loki, but his redemption was genuine in that movie, capped by Thor saying "if you were here I'd even give you a hug" and Loki responding "I'm here."

[Kalbear]

 

 

[Jaxom 1974]

1 hour ago, DMC said:

Well, "our" Loki's girlfriend wants to destroy the TVA, not control it.  And Mobius just said his plan is to burn the TVA to the ground.  I guess if it turns out another Loki is behind the TVA Hiddleston could play that guy, but it'd be pretty weird narratively for our Loki to want to continue the TVA in any way.

 

Just don't be surprised when it happens...in some way meant to leave open the possibility of another season...

[kairparavel]

As just a person who has never read any comics and found the movies basically ok, I LOVE TOM HIDDLESTON AS LOKI. This show is FOR ME and everyone like me and if Disney wants easy money they'll keep giving me THidds as Loki.

[Rhom]

4 hours ago, DMC said:

Meh, anthologizing Loki "making it right" really doesn't appeal to me -- and would very likely embody the character going stale IMHO.  It also reminds me of this:

"

I dunno… an MCU version of My Name Is Earl could be a lot of fun.  

[DMC]

6 minutes ago, Rhom said:

I dunno… an MCU version of My Name Is Earl could be a lot of fun.  

I anxiously await the episode where Hiddleston shaves his head and gives all the hair to Sif.

[Veltigar]

15 hours ago, kairparavel said:

As just a person who has never read any comics and found the movies basically ok, I LOVE TOM HIDDLESTON AS LOKI. This show is FOR ME and everyone like me and if Disney wants easy money they'll keep giving me THidds as Loki.

Yeah, sort of in a similar situation here. Very curious about the way they'll wrap up and I hope Hiddleston is going to keep on going as Loki.

[Frey family reunion]

On 7/11/2021 at 11:23 AM, polishgenius said:

Yeah you'd think some people in here have never watched Doctor Who

 

It’s funny that you brought this up, because this last episode really made me think of Doctor Who or perhaps some other BBC sci-fi show (maybe like Hitchhikers Guide).  Albeit with a much higher budget.  It just kind of had that vibe to me.

And probably not coincidentally, it was the first episode I really enjoyed.  All the others kind of had a cookie cutter generic feel to them.  Which was really disappointing because this was the series I was most looking forward to.

My one issue, though, is that they are really neutering the Loki character.  Trying to make him way too sympathetic a character.  I don’t mind having some softening of him to make him palatable as a protagonist in a six episode series, but I think they’ve gone too far the other way.

Maybe by the end he’ll do something dastardly.

My other problem so far is with the female Loki.  Hasn’t really brought much to the table in my opinion.  I’d probably sooner have had them figure out a way to have gotten the actress who played Hela on the series, I thought she brought a lot to the role.

[Ghostlydragon]

Just now, Frey family reunion said:

My one issue, though, is that they are really neutering the Loki character.  Trying to make him way too sympathetic a character.  I wouldn’t mind having some softening of him to make him palatable as a protagonist in a six episode series, but I think they’ve gone too far the other way.

Maybe by the end he’ll do something dastardly.

My other problem so far is with the female Loki.  Hasn’t really brought much to the table in my opinion.  I’d probably sooner have had them figure out a way to have gotten the actress who played Hela on the series, I thought she brought a lot to the role.

Yes! This has really bothered me. Loki is too nice. Just look at him in Avengers 1 and look at him in the 2nd episode. All of his villainous behaviour is gone.

And yes. He's been neutered alright. Look at when him and Sylvie face the smoke wolf monster. He slowly walks behind her to show that he's now a weakling who can't fight the villain.

How Richard E Grant plays him is much closer to 2012 Loki than the one we've got.

Are marvel just desperate to not have the villains be bad any more? Look at Wanda. Absolutely the villainous of her show but she was never condemned for her actions apart from where the townspeople glare at her at the end. Monica treated her like a hero when she was the villain.

[Frey family reunion]

1 minute ago, Ghostlydragon said:

How Richard E Grant plays him is much closer to 2012 Loki than the one we've got.

I thought he was great as well.

[Ghostlydragon]

1 minute ago, Frey family reunion said:

I thought he was great as well.

Agreed. And I loved that he was the most powerful Loki.

[polishgenius]

22 hours ago, DMC said:

In terms of changes from the shows, there now is a White Vision out there whereas viewers of just the films would presume he was still "dead" as of Infinity War.

ETA:  Another one - Sharon Carter is now eeeevil.

 

 

To add a change in a show that isn't out yet, The Marvels (movie) will feature not just Monica Rambeau but Ms Marvel, and from initial descriptions seems like it'll be as much a sequel to her tv show as to Captain Marvel. 

[Week]

2 hours ago, Ghostlydragon said:

And yes. He's been neutered alright. Look at when him and Sylvie face the smoke wolf monster. He slowly walks behind her to show that he's now a weakling who can't fight the villain.

Wut? Is he supposed to stand in front prior to *her* plan? 

Has he been neutered or now can properly assess his abilities vis a vis Sylvie? Particularly for *her* plan that she's already has successfully tested to a degree.

Then his power is actually *necessary* for the success as he learns how to access and perform it. Right? 

[Ghostlydragon]

40 minutes ago, Week said:

Wut? Is he supposed to stand in front prior to *her* plan? 

Has he been neutered or now can properly assess his abilities vis a vis Sylvie? Particularly for *her* plan that she's already has successfully tested to a degree.

Then his power is actually *necessary* for the success as he learns how to access and perform it. Right? 

No he should stand beside her as her equal.

[Week]

13 minutes ago, Ghostlydragon said:

No he should stand beside her as her equal.

Ok ... ?? Weird opinion to read into and get upset about - though what else is the point.

[SpaceChampion]

What if....they change the origin of Kang to be a Loki variant?

 

[ithanos]

1 hour ago, SpaceChampion said:

What if....they change the origin of Kang to be a Loki variant?

 

That would be a shame IMO, but it would make for an easier introduction for viewers not familiar with Kang's comic book origins. Always liked the Kang - Reed Richards connection, and where there is R.Richards, Dr Doom can't be far away.

[Winterfell is Burning]

7 minutes ago, ithanos said:

That would be a shame IMO, but it would make for an easier introduction for viewers not familiar with Kang's comic book origins. Always liked the Kang - Reed Richards connection, and where there is R.Richards, Dr Doom can't be far away.

 

 

1 hour ago, SpaceChampion said:

What if....they change the origin of Kang to be a Loki variant?

 

It wouldn't work. Kang is too tied to his own variants to be one of Loki's.