LØkI - see ya later, LØkIgator (Spoilers)

[Kalbear]

Continue to discuss the inanity of time travel in the MCU, the squickiness of loving yourself a little too much, and the awesomeness that is our herpetological hero.

[ithanos]

33 minutes ago, Kal Corp said:

Continue to discuss the inanity of time travel in the MCU, the squickiness of loving yourself a little too much, and the awesomeness that is our herpetological hero.

Yeah i kept hearing Florida Loki in some of reviews, took me a moment 

[Kalbear]

19 minutes ago, ithanos said:

Yeah i kept hearing Florida Loki in some of reviews, took me a moment 

I would never besmirch lokigator like that. Florida Loki is, like, that super strung out Loki that gets his ass kicked in the brawl

[Which Tyler]

I just think they missed out making him an alligator rather than a crocodile - should have been an Ausgardian

[felice]

It seems like new branches off the sacred timeline happen spontaneously over metatime, with the universe just deciding "what if this happened differently at that point on the timeline?" with no time travel required. Or if not spontaneous, triggered by something that exists outside the timeline, like a more subtle rival TVA.

[mormont]

1 hour ago, Which Tyler said:

I just think they missed out making him an alligator rather than a crocodile - should have been an Ausgardian

'Croki' writes itself. But presumably his brother is Alligathor.

[Which Tyler]

1 hour ago, mormont said:

'Croki' writes itself. But presumably his brother is Alligathor.

Nexus event could have been when Steve Irwin was killed by a stingray instead of befriending Croki

[polishgenius]

Quote

You're assuming time is a linear dimension though - it only goes forward or backward. But clearly it doesn't - it goes sideways and upside down and all sorts of other ways. 

There is no possible way that a time travel story that does anything more than 'go there, come back' can treat time as anything other than as a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey stuff, and Loki isn't even pretending otherwise. 

[Ghostlydragon]

Why is there a new thread when there's less than a week for the final episode? The old thread is unlikely to double before people move on to another show and its a shame as it will make looking at the oldest posts when discussing correct or incorrect theories harder now.

[DMC]

2 hours ago, Ghostlydragon said:

Why is there a new thread when there's less than a week for the final episode?

Because the old one was locked.  Blame the mods TVA.

[Rhom]

4 hours ago, Ghostlydragon said:

Why is there a new thread when there's less than a week for the final episode? The old thread is unlikely to double before people move on to another show and its a shame as it will make looking at the oldest posts when discussing correct or incorrect theories harder now.

Threads generally get locked around page 20.

[mormont]

Possibly the shortest cameo ever: but among all the Easter eggs, there's a very brief shot of Frog Thor in a jar trying to get to the buried Mjolnir (as the Lokis climb down the ladder to their underground lair).

Turns out that Chris Hemsworth voiced Frog Thor for that second or two he was onscreen.

This actually makes sense, as there was a deleted scene in episode 1 where Frog Thor is shown hitting Loki in a flashback. Presumably Hemsworth was originally brought in for that as well as this cameo.

[john]

I have to say the more we learn about time travel in the show the less sense it makes.

Like, who is REG classic Loki? He appears to share a history of events up until Thanos but he’s not the same as our Loki because he’s better at illusions. So it’s more like alternate dimensions existing on top of each other than timelines.

If you travel forward from a point and then travel back to any point between those two times there will have been so many potential branches or splits to the timeline (even with TVA intervention given all the divergent Loki’s running around) that you have no idea what branch you’re coming back to, rendering time travel pointless.

What you’d need is some kind of time AND relative dimensions machine. Like some kind of TARD.

[DaveSumm]

7 minutes ago, john MCG said:

I have to say the more we learn about time travel in the show the less sense it makes.

Like, who is REG classic Loki? He appears to share a history of events up until Thanos but he’s not the same as our Loki because he’s better at illusions. So it’s more like alternate dimensions existing on top of each other than timelines.

If you travel forward from a point and then travel back to any point between those two times there will have been so many potential branches or splits to the timeline (even with TVA intervention given all the divergent Loki’s running around) that you have no idea what branch you’re coming back to, rendering time travel pointless.

What you’d need is some kind of time AND relative dimensions machine. Like some kind of TARD.

I think @Kaligator ‘s theory fits the neatest, that there are a bunch of other timelines but the TVA don’t care about them unless someone, probably a Loki, makes some decision that infringes on the Sacred Timeline. The show doesn’t back it up, and I have a feeling that’s not what they’re going for, but it works better than what they are going for. Especially with all these clearly different looking Lokis (I had to laugh at how the discussion of the genetics of male vs female Loki continued after the reveal of a fucking alligator Loki), when by their rules they should all look like Tom Hiddleston. Nevermind how a variant even goes about becoming a variant; our Loki was forced into a branch timeline by the Avengers and just tried to survive once there. If there’s no Tony Stark to invent time travel I don’t see what mechanism there is for Lokis from other timelines to interfere with the sacred one.

Narratively, in terms of the wider MCU, it’s neater if this series opens up a multiverse for the rest of Phase 4 to explore but yea, it doesn’t make much sense.

[Which Tyler]

43 minutes ago, john MCG said:

Like, who is REG classic Loki? He appears to share a history of events up until Thanos but he’s not the same as our Loki because he’s better at illusions. So it’s more like alternate dimensions existing on top of each other than timelines.

Doesn't the few extra millenia that REG Loki has lived allow for him to be better practiced at something? Especially when TH Loki's take away is "we're more powerful than we thought" not "No way could I ever do that, even if given anther few millenia to practice, with nothing else to do"

29 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

Nevermind how a variant even goes about becoming a variant; our Loki was forced into a branch timeline by the Avengers and just tried to survive once there.

Forced? I seem to recall Loki happening to notice the tesseract, picking it up and using it - I don't recall anyone forcing him to do so against his will.

[john]

5 minutes ago, Which Tyler said:

Doesn't the few extra millenia that REG Loki has lived allow for him to be better practiced at something? Especially when TH Loki's take away is "we're more powerful than we thought" not "No way could I ever do that, even if given anther few millenia to practice, with nothing else to do"

I was thinking more of how he fooled Thanos, which our Loki apparently couldn’t do. At the very least, somehow REG Loki had more awareness of his inherent abilities than our Loki did.

38 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

Nevermind how a variant even goes about becoming a variant; our Loki was forced into a branch timeline by the Avengers and just tried to survive once there.

I guess the Tesseract/infinity stones would create a bigger divergence for them to investigate. Or, like you say, per Kal’s theory, they only care about some divergences. But also, Loki did initially escape, he only gave up after Mobius managed to persuade him his ambitions were pointless. And Sylvie obviously escaped. The other variants could have been captured and escaped also (although not classic Loki apparently).

[felice]

13 minutes ago, john MCG said:

I was thinking more of how he fooled Thanos, which our Loki apparently couldn’t do. At the very least, somehow REG Loki had more awareness of his inherent abilities than our Loki did.

My guess is REG prioritised escape over trying to kill Thanos; TH could have escaped, but made a different choice.

13 minutes ago, john MCG said:

And Sylvie obviously escaped.

Rather unconvincingly, I thought. Gross incompetence, or did Ravonna let her get away for some reason?

[DaveSumm]

56 minutes ago, Which Tyler said:

Forced? I seem to recall Loki happening to notice the tesseract, picking it up and using it - I don't recall anyone forcing him to do so against his will.

Right, but by then they’re already in a branch - the Avengers showed up and changed events. We don’t know to what extent Loki just relocating himself actually bothered the TVA, or if they just wiped out that whole line anyway. Without time travel involved, it’s hard to see how one wilfully interferes with a timeline.

[Which Tyler]

4 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

Right, but by then they’re already in a branch - the Avengers showed up and changed events. We don’t know to what extent Loki just relocating himself actually bothered the TVA, or if they just wiped out that whole line anyway. Without time travel involved, it’s hard to see how one wilfully interferes with a timeline.

Meh, the TVA think that being late for work as worthy of having your timeline pruned, if they think it important enough - but are absolutely fine with time travel, so long as it isn't important enough.

 

I think it's pretty clear that variants and nexus events are way, way more common than time travel (TVA aside)

[Rhom]

I think everyone is overthinking the show.

The show was made to tell an entertaining story.  None of the branches or time travels or any of it makes sense… because it’s not supposed to.  This isnt some deep abiding philosophical discussion of the nature of time and the universe… it’s a comic book.  It’s surface deep and we are supposed to sit back and enjoy it.

If you can’t at that level.  That’s okay!  You aren’t the target audience.