US politics: Everything in moderation, including moderation

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

22 minutes ago, DMC said:

Why can't it be both?

That’s hard.  Lying generally presumes knowledge that what you are saying is false.  If he sincerely believes his horseshit he’s not lying… he’s deluded.

[DMC]

1 minute ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

That’s hard.  Lying generally presumes knowledge that what you are saying is false.  If he sincerely believes his horseshit he’s not lying… he’s deluded.

I think Trump himself is a perfect example of someone that is both a liar and delusional.  I think it's possible for the human mind to know you're lying on one level and still delude yourself into believing those lies on another.  I'm pretty sure I've met many of these people.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 hours ago, DMC said:

Those House Democrats - which again include Nancy Pelosi btw - are absolutely right to demand the Senate sends them a reconciliation bill before voting on the bipartisan deal.  The latter is a fig leaf for Biden's insistence and portrayal as a president that can somehow get both parties to work together.  That's not unimportant politically, but policywise the bipartisan deal is incredibly lacking in advancing actual Democratic priorities.  The Squad, progressive caucus, and leadership are all correct in demanding passing the bipartisan bill is contingent upon the moderate Dems agreeing to the much larger bill that will actually help people, and in turn help the Dems electorally.

I take it you view Republicans pulling out if there’s also a reconciliation bill as an empty bluff then?  

Quote

ETA:  Also, this idea that they need to get something passed before the August recess is utter horseshit.  Even if the Senate passes the bipartisan deal before the recess, the House would still use the recess to review it - as my link about DeFazio above makes clear.

Obama’s first August recess proved problematic when serious legislation, the ACA, was being debated. They should just get this done then get the reconciliation bill done. There’s literally no reason or benefit for Democrats in either chamber to knee cap this. They all need to set their egos aside and actually take the easy win that’s sitting right in front of them.

57 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I can’t tell if Lindell is lying or sincerely deluded.  The very fact that so many Trumpanistas hang on his every word is disturbing in and of itself.

DMC is right, it can and probably is both. Plus someone can knowing tell a lie so many times that in their mind it starts to become true. Nearly the entire Republican party is going through this at the moment.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

22 minutes ago, DMC said:

I think Trump himself is a perfect example of someone that is both a liar and delusional.  I think it's possible for the human mind to know you're lying on one level and still delude yourself into believing those lies on another.  I'm pretty sure I've met many of these people.

Maybe 

[DMC]

4 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I take it you view Republicans pulling out if there’s also a reconciliation bill as an empty bluff then?  

I mean, this is entirely possible, but I'm not aware of any GOP Senator that's been a part of the negotiations explicitly stating this.  So, I'm not sure what "bluff" you're referring to.  More importantly, if the GOP bows out of the bipartisan deal simply because the Dems unite on a reconciliation bill, then strategically I have zero problem with that.  It's not like they haven't known the entire fucking time Pelosi's position on this, so if they want to revert to the assholes they are, that's on them.

9 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Obama’s first August recess proved problematic when serious legislation, the ACA, was being debated.

Ugh.  I knew you were gonna bring this up.  It reminds me of the fallacy an old advisor emphasized and devoted a lot of his research to - always fighting the last war.  These bills, or just the reconciliation bill, are not comparable to passing the ACA.  In terms of popularity, in terms of entrenched interests with deep-seated opposition, in terms of the ideological makeup of the Dem caucus, and hell, in terms of what actually happened during that August recess.  MCs went home to town halls with people yelling at them about death panels to their face.  Anything like that is just not going to happen this time, for very obvious reasons.

15 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

They should just get this done then get the reconciliation bill done.

The problem is there's no credible commitment the moderate Dems will vote for the reconciliation bill if they pass the bipartisan deal first.  Pelosi is absolutely right to maintain that leverage.  Plus it's not just her, she's providing cover for Biden and even Schumer, which is the smart tack to take.

[Fez]

Not really a surprise, but yet more evidence for the history books...

In fact, I'm pretty sure everyone guessed this was the case in January and February, when looking back on why Barr left. But now there's apparently some receipts.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

1 hour ago, Fez said:

Not really a surprise, but yet more evidence for the history books...

In fact, I'm pretty sure everyone guessed this was the case in January and February, when looking back on why Barr left. But now there's apparently some receipts.

Trump.  Worst President in American history.

[Kalbear]

14 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Trump.  Worst President in American history.

*Homer voice* he's the worst president SO FAR

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

13 minutes ago, Kaligator said:

*Homer voice* he's the worst president SO FAR

Yeaaaaaaahhhh…

[A Horse Named Stranger]

1 hour ago, DMC said:

The problem is there's no credible commitment the moderate Dems will vote for the reconciliation bill if they pass the bipartisan deal first.  Pelosi is absolutely right to maintain that leverage.  Plus it's not just her, she's providing cover for Biden and even Schumer, which is the smart tack to take.

So you are saying that Pelosi is actually a competent politician and effective Majority Leader? What a blasphemous thing to say.

[Mindwalker]

https://www.instagram.com/washingtonpost/

espite pleading guilty to knowingly committing official misconduct after holding open a door to allow right-wing demonstrators into the Oregon Capitol building in December, former Republican lawmaker Mike Nearman denied wrongdoing in a radio interview after his sentencing.

“I don’t think I committed a crime, and I don’t think I did anything wrong,” Nearman, 57, told conservative talk-show host Lars Larson on Tuesday.

More than six months after Nearman let armed, far-right protesters into the Capitol in Salem, Ore., the now-ousted lawmaker pleaded guilty on Tuesday to official misconduct for his role in the violent protest. A Marion County judge sentenced Nearman to $2,900 in fines and 80 hours of community service and barred him for 18 months from entering the Capitol he helped breach in December, according to court records.

Nearman claimed that he pleaded guilty to avoid racking up hefty legal fees in a trial.

“The legal bills were stacking up,” he told Larson. “It made more sense to pay and do a little community service rather than pay twenty or thirty thousand more to attorneys.”

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

DOJ just said Congress can see Trump's taxes, so here we go on that front. 

[Centrist Simon Steele]

20 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

If they do this then they both deserve to lose their seats. 

Also add Pelosi to your list, as she has said she won't bring the Bipartisan bill to a house vote until the reconciliation bill has passed.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

3 hours ago, DMC said:

I mean, this is entirely possible, but I'm not aware of any GOP Senator that's been a part of the negotiations explicitly stating this.  So, I'm not sure what "bluff" you're referring to.  More importantly, if the GOP bows out of the bipartisan deal simply because the Dems unite on a reconciliation bill, then strategically I have zero problem with that.  It's not like they haven't known the entire fucking time Pelosi's position on this, so if they want to revert to the assholes they are, that's on them.

 

Do they need the Republicans in the Senate now? I thought they got 60 votes needed for cloture.

[Fez]

11 minutes ago, Centrist Simon Steele said:

Do they need the Republicans in the Senate now? I thought they got 60 votes needed for cloture.

That was on the motion to proceed. The underlying bill could still get filibustered if the deal falls apart.

[Corvinus85]

1 hour ago, Mindwalker said:

https://www.instagram.com/washingtonpost/

espite pleading guilty to knowingly committing official misconduct after holding open a door to allow right-wing demonstrators into the Oregon Capitol building in December, former Republican lawmaker Mike Nearman denied wrongdoing in a radio interview after his sentencing.

“I don’t think I committed a crime, and I don’t think I did anything wrong,” Nearman, 57, told conservative talk-show host Lars Larson on Tuesday.

More than six months after Nearman let armed, far-right protesters into the Capitol in Salem, Ore., the now-ousted lawmaker pleaded guilty on Tuesday to official misconduct for his role in the violent protest. A Marion County judge sentenced Nearman to $2,900 in fines and 80 hours of community service and barred him for 18 months from entering the Capitol he helped breach in December, according to court records.

Nearman claimed that he pleaded guilty to avoid racking up hefty legal fees in a trial.

“The legal bills were stacking up,” he told Larson. “It made more sense to pay and do a little community service rather than pay twenty or thirty thousand more to attorneys.”

Ha, and the irony is surely lost on him. Got a taste of how the justice system works for low income people.

[Mindwalker]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

DOJ just said Congress can see Trump's taxes, so here we go on that front. 

Now that's unfair, he was going to release them any week now.

[DMC]

4 hours ago, Centrist Simon Steele said:

Do they need the Republicans in the Senate now? I thought they got 60 votes needed for cloture.

What Fez said.  They voted to start debate, cloture is voting to end debate.

[ThinkerX]

Republicans getting psyched up for Capital Riot gone national?

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/47-percent-of-republicans-say-time-will-come-to-take-the-law-into-their-own-hands-poll/ar-AAMKsTP?ocid=ob-fb-enus-580&fbclid=IwAR3wnR9vGw8hQtMGoiMLlOcwM-CROS2s0-iTc79tsLx2ngZbloausk0WWYk

 

About 47 percent of Republicans believe that a time will come when "patriotic Americans have to take the law into their own hands," according to a George Washington University poll on Americans' faith in election systems and democratic values.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

9 hours ago, DMC said:

I mean, this is entirely possible, but I'm not aware of any GOP Senator that's been a part of the negotiations explicitly stating this.  So, I'm not sure what "bluff" you're referring to.  More importantly, if the GOP bows out of the bipartisan deal simply because the Dems unite on a reconciliation bill, then strategically I have zero problem with that.  It's not like they haven't known the entire fucking time Pelosi's position on this, so if they want to revert to the assholes they are, that's on them.

I looked and couldn't find any of the principles on the Republican side saying they would pull out if the reconciliation deal also occurred, but that doesn't mean they won't. There's still plenty of time to scuttle things.

I'm surprised McConnell voted in favor of the procedural vote though. 

Quote

Ugh.  I knew you were gonna bring this up.  It reminds me of the fallacy an old advisor emphasized and devoted a lot of his research to - always fighting the last war.  These bills, or just the reconciliation bill, are not comparable to passing the ACA.  In terms of popularity, in terms of entrenched interests with deep-seated opposition, in terms of the ideological makeup of the Dem caucus, and hell, in terms of what actually happened during that August recess.  MCs went home to town halls with people yelling at them about death panels to their face.  Anything like that is just not going to happen this time, for very obvious reasons.

Obviously they're not the same, but it's hard to call bullshit when there's an obvious example to cite, one that the Biden Administration is very aware of. I'm not sure if Biden has commented on it directly, but several people around him have said they're not going to make the same mistake the Obama Administration did and negotiate until times almost run out. 

Quote

The problem is there's no credible commitment the moderate Dems will vote for the reconciliation bill if they pass the bipartisan deal first.  Pelosi is absolutely right to maintain that leverage.  Plus it's not just her, she's providing cover for Biden and even Schumer, which is the smart tack to take.

There's also no evidence that they'll sink it. I'm sure Manchin and Sinema will ultimately vote for it, so who cares if the final number is 3.5T or 3T? 

5 hours ago, Centrist Simon Steele said:

Also add Pelosi to your list, as she has said she won't bring the Bipartisan bill to a house vote until the reconciliation bill has passed.

And if the reconciliation bill doesn't happen, do you really think she'd let the bill just die in the House?