Book of Boba Fett: The Upstaging of Din Djarin [SPOILERS]

[Darryk]

My older brother had a bunch of Star Wars toys including the X-wing, but I think I broke most of them 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

10 hours ago, sifth said:

I often wonder if Marvel has replaced Star Wars cultural wise. For example many of the students I work with have Marvel related backpacks and lunchboxes. I often see children playing with Marvel toys as well, in aftercare. However I can’t even think of the last time I saw a kid bring something Star Wars related to school. 

Mostly, yes. Hardcore SW worship is fueled by a lot of nostalgia so fans probably trend older and more occidental. Places, like China and Russia, (where the OT didn't play back in the day) have seen pretty meager box office returns for the Disney SW stuff. OTOH, the Infinity saga has been hugely successful in those places. SW video games tend to be pretty popular but I don't know how that breaks down geographically.

9 hours ago, Toth said:

Though arguably when my 12th-graders were strangely excited about the new Spiderman movie a couple of weeks ago, I was indeed taken a bit aback. Never considered Spiderman to be something to talk about like this.

I'd bet money that the median age of a typical MCU fan is firmly in the 18-49 demographic. I had gone back to school when Avengers endgame came out and I saw a lot of 20 something college students who were pretty damn excited about going to see that film.

[dbunting]

1 hour ago, Soylent Brown said:

The AT-AT toy was a little on the small size, relatively speaking, I think. Though perhaps the one I had just hadn't finished growing yet.

Yeah I wouldn't say it wasn't perfect size ratio but it was pretty big. We traded a tauntaun for an AT-AT once, until the kids mom found out and made us switch back! 

[Jaxom 1974]

2 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Lucky bastard.  That said I always preferred the GI Joe action figures because they’re knees and elbows bent.  

Star Wars figure love was strong with my friends and I back in the day, but Joes were more the thing.  For one thing, they weren't really a things until AFTER Return of the Jedi, so they were more in the minds eye new toys and material...but also, you could take them apart and use the pieces to build your own characters...

[sifth]

1 hour ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

I'd bet money that the median age of a typical MCU fan is firmly in the 18-49 demographic. I had gone back to school when Avengers endgame came out and I saw a lot of 20 something college students who were pretty damn excited about going to see that film.

I was teaching middle school when the trailer for Spider Man Far From Home came out. I was a support teacher for one class in particular and on that day, the head teacher rushed in and insisted that the entire class watch the trailer, before we got to work. The kids went nuts when they saw Spiderman and Nick Furry. Can't say anything of the sort has ever happened with a Star Wars trailer, in my experience.

[Soylent Brown]

17 minutes ago, sifth said:

The kids went nuts when they saw Spiderman and Nick Furry.

Because who doesn't love a bit of superhero yiffing?

[dbunting]

35 minutes ago, sifth said:

I was teaching middle school when the trailer for Spider Man Far From Home came out. I was a support teacher for one class in particular and on that day, the head teacher rushed in and insisted that the entire class watch the trailer, before we got to work. The kids went nuts when they saw Spiderman and Nick Furry. Can't say anything of the sort has ever happened with a Star Wars trailer, in my experience.

Because it's current. The original trilogy had people waiting in lines for hours to see the movies. The reason that it doesn't happen now is that they botched the reboot. I was an embarrassed Star Wars fan when I saw The Phantom Menace.

[Frey family reunion]

4 minutes ago, dbunting said:

Because it's current. The original trilogy had people waiting in lines for hours to see the movies. The reason that it doesn't happen now is that they botched the reboot. I was an embarrassed Star Wars fan when I saw The Phantom Menace.

One of the most deflating experiences I had at the movies was about 20 minutes into Phantom Menace realizing that the movie sucked.

I'm not sure anything in the movies is going to recapture the experience of Star Wars coming out.  Today kids have tons of entertainment options to choose from.  We really didn't have anything to compare to Star Wars at the time.  

[sifth]

1 minute ago, Frey family reunion said:

One of the most deflating experiences I had at the movies was about 20 minutes into Phantom Menace realizing that the movie sucked.

I'm not sure anything in the movies is going to recapture the experience of Star Wars coming out.  Today kids have tons of entertainment options to choose from.  We really didn't have anything to compare to Star Wars at the time.  

I mean when I saw the Rise of Skywalker, people were out right booing at the screen and no one seemed to take offense to it. The kiss in particular got the most people booing at the film. It was quite the experience.

[RumHam]

3 hours ago, Myrddin said:

https://image.invaluable.com/housePhotos/CTAuctioneers/26/668526/H20253-L203898387.jpg

https://i.etsystatic.com/17528621/r/il/ee8a76/2644020433/il_570xN.2644020433_olqk.jpg

Like this?

Yup, those were the ones.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

1 hour ago, sifth said:

I mean when I saw the Rise of Skywalker, people were out right booing at the screen and no one seemed to take offense to it. The kiss in particular got the most people booing at the film. It was quite the experience.

Wow! I'm assuming they bought tickets? Maybe they bought tickets to another film and snuck into TRoS?

That's commitment.

ETA: SW has a durability that I'm not sure the MCU will be able to replicate long term. I mean, the entire enterprise seems to rest on a foundation of one really influential film (ANH), one really good film (ESB), and a good animated series (Clone Wars). The consensus puts Rogue One up there, though there are some that really don't like it; and the only sequel trilogy film that really got an unambiguous positive fan reaction was TFA. Coincidentally, this is the most derivative SW film ever made...

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

... As far as the MCU stuff, I not sure about the long term future of the Superhero action franchise in general. Since X-Men came out in 2000, there have been about 60 (give or take) live action superhero theatrical releases to come out of Hollywood. This includes several IP reboots (eg., 2 for Spider-Man, Batman is about to get is 3rd).  Add to that; between the CW, Netflix, D+, etc., about 1,000 hours of live action episodic television. Most of this stuff has come out in just the last 10 years.

That's an incredibly rapid burn that I don't think we've seen in another genre before. I'm not saying It's going to die, but sooner or later audiences are going to lose interest. When people see the same thing over and over with a different character and a different color spandex, it starts to taste like old wine in new skins.  

Back to Star Wars: regarding the current crop of D+ shows, would anyone be watching this stuff if it wasn't "Star Wars"? I gotta say I don't think so. Nostalgia can only go so far. 

[Jaxom 1974]

49 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Wow! I'm assuming they bought tickets? Maybe they bought tickets to another film and snuck into TRoS?

That's commitment.

ETA: SW has a durability that I'm not sure the MCU will be able to replicate long term. I mean, the entire enterprise seems to rest on a foundation of one really influential film (ANH), one really good film (ESB), and a good animated series (Clone Wars). The consensus puts Rogue One up there, though there are some that really don't like it; and the only sequel trilogy film that really got an unambiguous positive fan reaction was TFA. coincidentally, this is the most derivative SW film ever made...

Yeah.  I don't think it ultimately has anything to do with the quality of the original trilogy (though it helps), but it is about what was happening back then.  THERE WAS NO INTERNET.  A New Hope was, in its way, groundbreaking.  Empire and Return of the Jedi were EXPERIENCES.  My memories of going to see Empire was that my folks, my brother, and I had to sit on the steps of the theatre because it was packed.  Why?  Because George Lucas understood what no one else seemed to grasp at the time he released the first film: Merchandising.  Why are we talking about this the Boba Fett series?  Because Lucas created the touchstone to so many of our childhoods with his marketing and merchandising.  To have that Boba Fett figure back in the 80s?  That was a thing. 

When the prequels came...yeah. that was an experience also.  But they came out in a time where there growing shadow and reach of the internet was a real thing.  subsequently, each successive movie was a little less a thing, because so many had declared them "evil" or "terrible" or "raping our childhood" before people really got to see them in a theatre...regardless of whether they were good or bad...(I think they're...not great...but they've been redeemed a little through the Clone Wars and Rebels...)

Now?  The MCU is just as big, in its way, but it is also different because it exists under the watchful eye of a million different websites, podcasts, and Twitter...The toys, the merchandising...it's just different.  Honestly, there's nothing wrong with most of it, but there is so much.  And it's all dissected.  The number of YouTubers out there with their theory videos and breakdowns...hell, Little Jax is twelve now, and could care less about a lot of the actual experiences of some of these movies, but he sure as hell knows all there is to know because a YouTuber wants to connect the dots from this movie to that one.  

The experience is different.  How it is presented.  How it is consumed.

 

 

[DMC]

56 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

That's an incredibly rapid burn that I don't think we've seen in another genre before.

Well, westerns during the golden age.  That lasted around 30 years, so apparently we got about a decade to go!

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

1 hour ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

Yeah.  I don't think it ultimately has anything to do with the quality of the original trilogy (though it helps), but it is about what was happening back then.  THERE WAS NO INTERNET.  A New Hope was, in its way, groundbreaking.  Empire and Return of the Jedi were EXPERIENCES.  My memories of going to see Empire was that my folks, my brother, and I had to sit on the steps of the theatre because it was packed.  Why?  Because George Lucas understood what no one else seemed to grasp at the time he released the first film: Merchandising.  Why are we talking about this the Boba Fett series?  Because Lucas created the touchstone to so many of our childhoods with his marketing and merchandising.  To have that Boba Fett figure back in the 80s?  That was a thing. 

You make a point about merchandising.

In Easy Riders Raging Bulls, Lucas actually thought the theatrical release would lose money. Paraphrasing, "This is a Disney movie. Disney movies make $16 mil. It's going to cost $10 mil to make." While the Studio gets stuck with the loss, Lucas would make money selling toys.

Regarding the franchise as a whole, it does raise and interesting question: If the films drove march sales, how much did the merch drive the success of the films? Possibly quite a bit. But if that's the case, The franchise has to change or it's doomed. People aren't getting the theatrical experience as much any more and physical toys have largely been replaced with gaming consoles. 

1 hour ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

When the prequels came...yeah. that was an experience also.  But they came out in a time where there growing shadow and reach of the internet was a real thing.  subsequently, each successive movie was a little less a thing, because so many had declared them "evil" or "terrible" or "raping our childhood" before people really got to see them in a theatre...regardless of whether they were good or bad...(I think they're...not great...but they've been redeemed a little through the Clone Wars and Rebels...)

I always thought the popular response to the prequels was overblown. I still have fond memories of seeing RotS in a theater and loving it, flaws and all. But yeah, when there's blood in the water people go nuts.

 

1 hour ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

Now?  The MCU is just as big, in its way, but it is also different because it exists under the watchful eye of a million different websites, podcasts, and Twitter...The toys, the merchandising...it's just different.  Honestly, there's nothing wrong with most of it, but there is so much.  And it's all dissected.  The number of YouTubers out there with their theory videos and breakdowns...hell, Little Jax is twelve now, and could care less about a lot of the actual experiences of some of these movies, but he sure as hell knows all there is to know because a YouTuber wants to connect the dots from this movie to that one.  

The experience is different.  How it is presented.  How it is consumed.

I think the media and social media ecosystem that's grown out of the modern superhero film has largely peaked. The new media film twitter types that displaced the traditional entertainment news media are themselves being displaced by user generated content. And why not? The film scoop game is having diminishing returns and many of the video essays I've seen on youtube doing analysis and reviews is at least as good as anything Collider or Birth Movies Death ever did. And I think some people are caring less and less what Rotten Tomatoes has to say. 

OTOH, a lot of that analysis is just so fucking tedious. 

26 minutes ago, DMC said:

Well, westerns during the golden age.  That lasted around 30 years, so apparently we got about a decade to go!

Hair metal lasted about a decade. 

But this raises an interesting point. Westerns were driven as much by star power as genre film making. Beyond the MCU phase 1 stars who have already left (RDJ, Dic Pic, Scar Jo) what happens when Hemsworth, Bautista, etc decide they' want to move on? Hemsworth has been playing Thor for a decade. He's not going to do it for another 10 years. 

There'll be a DC-Marvel cross over within five years. Possibly two.* That will be the beginning of the end. Once you see a superhero musical, you know it's over.

*I always thought Shazam would be the most likely to cross-over because tonally he's the most-like-MCU thing DC has going. Shazam 2 finished principal photography in August 2021 yet the film doesn't hit until June 2023. It doesn't take 22 months to do post-production and re-shoots so what's going on there? Could it be timed to come after some MCU release?  James Gunn has said he already pitched a cross over. 

[DMC]

4 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

But this raises an interesting point. Westerns were driven as much by star power as genre film making. Beyond the MCU phase 1 stars who have already left (RDJ, Dic Pic, Scar Jo) what happens when Hemsworth, Bautista, etc decide they' want to move on? Hemsworth has been playing Thor for a decade. He's not going to do it for another 10 years. 

I dunno about that.  Sure there was Wayne and later Eastwood (and others), but that does not account for the ubiquity of westerns during that era.  Anyway, the obvious solution is to make new stars, which clearly the MCU is trying to do right now.

7 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Once you see a superhero musical, you know it's over.

Does the Hawkeye post-credit scene count? 

[Jaxom 1974]

7 minutes ago, DMC said:

 

Does the Hawkeye post-credit scene count? 

Sorry,not sorry, but that musical bit was some of the best trolling of the fandom that the creators have put out on we the people.  I loved every terrible moment of it!

[DMC]

2 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

Sorry,not sorry, but that musical bit was some of the best trolling of the fandom that the creators have put out on we the people.  I loved every terrible moment of it!

Can't say I watched every moment of it, but yeah I did enjoy the trolling and thought it was thoroughly hilarious.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

2 hours ago, DMC said:

I dunno about that.  Sure there was Wayne and later Eastwood (and others), but that does not account for the ubiquity of westerns during that era.  Anyway, the obvious solution is to make new stars, which clearly the MCU is trying to do right now.

It was that or donate the wardrobe inventory to the homeless send the horses off the the glue factory. That and a good deal of nostalgia for a recently domesticated frontier. And the Commies. 

[DMC]

Solid finale, basically broke out everything you woulda expected - with Fennec often telling you to expect it.  One humble request - try and limit Grogu's Yoda moments to one per episode.  Kinda cheapens the experience when we just saw basically the same thing ten minutes ago.