COVID 46 - Please disperse, nothing to see here!

[Heartofice]

This thread on Shanghai is pretty shocking, the potential for mass starvation is really quite scary, as are many of the measures being implemented.
 

 

[Zorral]

On 4/7/2022 at 7:09 AM, Larry of the Lake said:

 

Lol they're not even trying anymore.  

It's insane.  The Krzy Antis have won.  Hope they have good plans in place for their orphaned children, while the rest of us have to stay home.

[Week]

5 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

I'm sure the anti-vax and anti-mandate people are afraid of COVID measures in the west getting to the extremes that they are in China. But there was never any danger of that actually happening. Such people are just completely out of touch with reality.

Quoted for emphasis. 100% yes.

Eta-- Good thread from Monica Gandhi on this:

 

 

[Zorral]

Photos from two weeks of Shanghai lockdown:

https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2022/04/shanghai-covid-lockdown/629532/

I think one is allowed full view of Atlantic's covid pieces -- though maybe this is considered another category, not specifically medical?  But you do get 1 or 2 articles to view per month a/o sub.

 

[Padraig]

9 hours ago, Luzifer's right hand said:

It has been suggested for a while that the vaccines the Chinese used are not very effective afaik.

True.  China has done very well with its vaccination campaign but while all vaccines have struggled against Omicron, Chinese vaccines seem to have struggled even more.  But i'm not sure is there good data on how well they have done against hospitalisation or serious illness.  China probably isn't going to publish it.  And i'm not sure have other countries used those vaccines more recently.

Anyhow, if you go for 0 COVID in China, then Shanghai is the inevitable result.

12 hours ago, Heartofice said:

This is the stuff the anti vaxx crowd was scared would happen in the West.

I would have thought it was the anti-restriction crowd.  Which admittedly, overlap a lot.

[Zorral]

In the US they are one and the same; also covid a hoax, does not exist, and I have an immune system and god's will be done as me and my gun take out the Hillary Pedophile Pizza and get rich from the bounties turning in women who have miscarriages, in between burning down clubs where trans people dance and churches where Black people worship.

If the above comes through as gibberish, it is because it is gibberish, the very gibberish the anti-vaxxers, maskers and deniers spew.

Though yes, incels, covid deniers, haters of women and gay, trans, Black, immigrant -- you name it just about, they hate it -- are indeed burning down dance clubs, bars and churches, when not shooting at them, or defacing them with lynch images and so on.

 

[The Anti-Targ]

Anti-vax, anti-restriction don't quite 100% overlap. At the anti-mandate protest on parliament grounds in February there was at least one person in the protest group who claimed to be vaccinated. There was also one person who claimed their friend's husband was vaccinated, because he was shedding vaccine particles and caused a sheep on their farm to die of black blood disease. Dark blood in dead sheep is usually a sign of a disease that can be controlled by...vaccination.

[Larry of the Lawn]

13 minutes ago, Zorral said:

In the US they are one and the same; also covid a hoax, does not exist, and I have an immune system and god's will be done as me and my gun take out the Hillary Pedophile Pizza and get rich from the bounties turning in women who have miscarriages, in between burning down clubs where trans people dance and churches where Black people worship.

If the above comes through as gibberish, it is because it is gibberish, the very gibberish the anti-vaxxers, maskers and deniers spew.

Though yes, incels, covid deniers, haters of women and gay, trans, Black, immigrant -- you name it just about, they hate it -- are indeed burning down dance clubs, bars and churches, when not shooting at them, or defacing them with lynch images and so on.

 

I don't think they are one and the same.  My dad and step-mom are totally provaxx, stepmom is an ICU nurse, they still mask everywhere, but they were pushing for schools to open asap and to be able to open movie theaters etc.  Some of my neighbors and customers fall into the same category. 

I do think that most of the anti-vax people are generally anti-restrictions, but not so much the other way around.  

Eta: even the Biden administration couldn't wait to drop mask mandates once X percentage of people were vaccinated last summer.  I think there are many more people wary of restrictions in the US than just anti-vaxxers

 

[Larry of the Lawn]

2 minutes ago, Larry of the Lake said:

 

Ah fuck I fell for the quote/edit switcheroo again DAMMIT.

 

[Zorral]

1 hour ago, Larry of the Lake said:

Biden administration couldn't wait to drop mask mandates once X percentage of people were vaccinated last summer. 

I think it's more they desperately want to quiet the anti-maskers AND the anti vaxxers before the midterms, despite the proof is that the protocols stop transmission -- AND OUR NUMBERS ARE RAPIDLY INCREASING.  Look at how this has turned out in the UK.  Yet everywhere every preventive and protective action is dropped, including allowing unvaccinated to fly around where they want, and w/o masks.

This is not ending well for the overwhelmed and stressed health care systems everywhere.

In any case almost all of them are anti-the information and proofs, no matter whether all the cray-crays overlap on all points. Because if they didn't there wouldn't be so many covid orphans in the USA.

 

[Madame deVenoge]

1 hour ago, Larry of the Lake said:

I don't think they are one and the same.  My dad and step-mom are totally provaxx, stepmom is an ICU nurse, they still mask everywhere, but they were pushing for schools to open asap and to be able to open movie theaters etc.  Some of my neighbors and customers fall into the same category. 

I do think that most of the anti-vax people are generally anti-restrictions, but not so much the other way around.  

I’ll confess that at this point, I am over restrictions. I’ll do it absolutely without complaint if a shop or an Uber requires a mask - it is their right to require such (just like “no shirt, no shoes, no service”) but I can do without some local government mandate. I do carry some masks in my handbag for just such random occasions as taking an Uber. 

That said, I’m certainly not going to roll my eyes at people who choose to mask up. I was at Johnny’s Hideaway last weekend and there was a lady on the dance floor in an N95 mask. That’s her choice, and I respect that.

I’ve been fully vaccinated and boosted. 

[Padraig]

26 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Look at how this has turned out in the UK.

Looking at anywhere in Europe will only encourage people to do nothing.   During the last wave, there were little to no restrictions.  Hospitals felt the severe pain again but the rest of the country basically shrugged.  You can definitely argue that too many people are still dying (although, a few countries did keep numbers very low) but we are now coming out from this last wave without the pain seen in previous waves.

So little no restrictions are survivable politically.  At least until the next wave.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

I’ll confess that at this point, I am over restrictions. I’ll do it absolutely without complaint if a shop or an Uber requires a mask - it is their right to require such (just like “no shirt, no shoes, no service”) but I can do without some local government mandate. I do carry some masks in my handbag for just such random occasions as taking an Uber. 

That said, I’m certainly not going to roll my eyes at people who choose to mask up. I was at Johnny’s Hideaway last weekend and there was a lady on the dance floor in an N95 mask. That’s her choice, and I respect that.

I’ve been fully vaccinated and boosted. 

I fear your attitude is largely shared. Just saw that Philly is reinstating its mandate (though for some dumb reason they're waiting a week to do it) and I suspect a larger share of the population is going to ignore it. Once you freed people from having to mask they were never going to go back.

Too bad they don't all take Bane's approach to masks. 

[Mlle. Zabzie]

2 hours ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

I’ll confess that at this point, I am over restrictions. I’ll do it absolutely without complaint if a shop or an Uber requires a mask - it is their right to require such (just like “no shirt, no shoes, no service”) but I can do without some local government mandate. I do carry some masks in my handbag for just such random occasions as taking an Uber. 

That said, I’m certainly not going to roll my eyes at people who choose to mask up. I was at Johnny’s Hideaway last weekend and there was a lady on the dance floor in an N95 mask. That’s her choice, and I respect that.

I’ve been fully vaccinated and boosted. 

I’m entirely with you, up to and including, sometimes I mask when I am in crowded places because it makes me more comfortable.  And I’ll get my next shot whenever my doctor suggests (which I will consider my first annual covid shot).  On restrictions I would like people’s views as to “to what end” and is the cost/benefit trade off worth it.  That is a real and live question.  This is not March 2020.  It’s not summer 2021.  We are in the now, with a different, crazy contagious variant.  And so, again, to what end, and with what will?

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

35 minutes ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

I’m entirely with you, up to and including, sometimes I mask when I am in crowded places because it makes me more comfortable.  And I’ll get my next shot whenever my doctor suggests (which I will consider my first annual covid shot).  On restrictions I would like people’s views as to “to what end” and is the cost/benefit trade off worth it.  That is a real and live question.  This is not March 2020.  It’s not summer 2021.  We are in the now, with a different, crazy contagious variant.  And so, again, to what end, and with what will?

The sad reality is there isn't a good one, which means for the time being living with it and taking actions that you personally think will benefit you the most. I've got three different trips planned over the next six months and I'm totally fine flying at this point. Just wish we weren't so collectively lazy about making this as minimal a problem as possible.

[The Anti-Targ]

Curious to understand what is the cost of wearing a mask? If you are going to mandate single use N / KN95 masks, yes that's a substantial cost (though impossible to know if someone is re-using a single use mask). But if you are going to just say "wear a mask in X, Y and Z situations", there's no real cost of any substance.

Still any govt imposition has to be based on best available information that it will have a benefit, no matter how minimal the impact on the individual. But if there is evidence that masking up in indoor public spaces keeps COVID numbers down, then for as long as COVID presents a danger to the health system, and workplaces being able to function efficiently then there seems to be a case for mandatory masking. I think we're seeing the biggest effect on all aspects of life coming from people having to be off work / school and isolating because they have the infection. Mandatory masking might be helping to keep those infection numbers under control. It's pretty much the only population-wide mandate in place now (vax passes are gone, or at least voluntary, we still have indoor crowd limits, but outdoor events have unlimited size). Our daily confirmed infection rate is going down, as is our hospitalisation rate, and the ICU occupancy has kind of steadied and is lower than the peak in March. Is masking helping with that over and above our vaccination rate? Are mask mandates helping? I don't know what the govt might be more afraid of, that it is helping and when mask mandates are gone infections will shoot up; or it's not helping and when masking is no longer mandated the numbers will keep going down.

[Luzifer's right hand]

5 hours ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

I’m entirely with you, up to and including, sometimes I mask when I am in crowded places because it makes me more comfortable.  And I’ll get my next shot whenever my doctor suggests (which I will consider my first annual covid shot).  On restrictions I would like people’s views as to “to what end” and is the cost/benefit trade off worth it.  That is a real and live question.  This is not March 2020.  It’s not summer 2021.  We are in the now, with a different, crazy contagious variant.  And so, again, to what end, and with what will?

They question is do you give a shit about people working in healthcare and things like caretaking. The answer seems to be no for most people.

[Heartofice]

8 hours ago, Zorral said:

 Look at how this has turned out in the UK. 

What do you think has happened in the UK?

[lessthanluke]

30 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

What do you think has happened in the UK?

Streets are full with the bodies of the dead.

[Heartofice]

7 minutes ago, lessthanluke said:

Streets are full with the bodies of the dead.

Sure, but the body collection and grave robbing industries are booming.