spoilers [Spoilers] Episode 101 Discussion

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

The context of that scene apparently is that

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Rhaenyra is old enough to marry but has refused all the suitors who proposed to her to Viserys' chagrin. In his anger he even shuts down her suggestions at the Small Council (where she is present at that time).

This is at a time when Helaena is already born and Daemon returns from the Stepstones with his crown. They have an exchange over being trapped in marriages and Rhaenyra thinks she should not marry at all. Then Daemon gives her map of the secret tunnels, and she leaves her chambers, they meet up, disguise themselves, and go for a stroll in the city. Daemon teaches Rhaenyra basically that she can marry and still have fun - like he does. They watch folks having sex in a brothel, get a taste for it themselves, but Daemon stops before it gets too serious. Rhaenyra is very much aroused and therefore has sex with Criston Cole upon her return.

Otto learns about the brothel visit and accuses Daemon of sleeping with the princess. Viserys is very angry, banishes Daemon for 'spoiling' Rhaenyra and forces her to marry Laenor. Rhaenyra, in turn, demands that Otto be fired or else she is not going to marry at all. They force Rhaenyra to drink moon tea so she doesn't birth a bastard.

It is in the subsequent episode that Alicent learns that Rhaenyra never slept with Daemon but instead with Criston Cole. Criston has regrets over his slip there, and tries to persuade Rhaenyra to run away with him, etc. but she refuses, but asks him to stay on as her lover - which he won't do.

Ah, I see. The report I read wasn't as detailed.

[BlackLightning]

2 hours ago, Frey family reunion said:

I haven't heard it but let me guess,

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Is it that Cole was having a tryst with both Rhaenyra and Laenor?  

Probably why they made him Dornish.

LMFAO

 

[The Bard of Banefort]

This is definitely the best discussion board for HOTD. I know it’s only been one episode, but no one’s talking about the characters or the story anywhere else, it’s all just culture war crap. I’ve been watching culture war bickering for long enough now to know that 99% of the time it’s both unproductive and exhausting.

I wish I could feel the same excitement for this show that so many other people are, but it I think it’s going to take me a little longer to get into it, especially with the discourse being so dismal. I do find it really weird how people are so convinced that “GOT is back” after one episode. 

As for the other spin-offs, the only one that sounds interesting to me is DnE, but I think it would be a huge mistake to try to build a show off of three short stories. If George can crank out FnB2, then that could have some good spin-off material. We’ll have to see.

[C.T. Phipps]

1 hour ago, Ran said:

I think she's 14, not 16, at the start of the show.

It oddly says she's fifteen here but other places get it wrong. But I think it was a 16 year time skip from the Great Council so that would be appropriate if she was the baby that Aemma was pregnant with.

https://www.thefocus.news/celebrity/milly-alcocks-age-revealed-to-be-much-older-than-rhaenyra-targaryen/

[Ran]

As far as Dunk and Egg goes, George has a file folder filled with notes and details about his plans for them and the events that take place in that time. 

ETA: 15 works. 14 or 15, but basically I can say that in a later episode they say she's 17, and we know two years have passed at least. In fact she's 17 verging on 18 I guess.

Edited August 26, 2022 by Ran

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

6 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I do find it really weird how people are so convinced that “GOT is back” after one episode.

If you look at the numbers, it really is back as strong as ever. Plus, it has just been renewed for a second season, so the sentiment is definitely understandible.

[The Bard of Banefort]

2 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

If you look at the numbers, it really is back as strong as ever. Plus, it has just been renewed for a second season, so the sentiment is definitely understandible.

I’m not talking about viewers. I’m talking about how people are convinced this is going to be the best show on television based on one episode. And while the viewership was tremendous, we don’t know if it’ll last.

I’m not trying to kill anyone’s buzz. I just feel a little deflated myself.

[The Bard of Banefort]

8 minutes ago, Ran said:

As far as Dunk and Egg goes, George has a file folder filled with notes and details about his plans for them and the events that take place in that time. 

ETA: 15 works. 14 or 15, but basically I can say that in a later episode they say she's 17, and we know two years have passed at least. In fact she's 17 verging on 18 I guess.

I know everyone wants Winds, but after so many years I’d kind of prefer if he wrote some more DnE instead. At least then we’d have something new to read.

[Lord Varys]

4 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Ah, I see. The report I read wasn't as detailed.

I think they really go out of their way there to make this not into some 'grooming thing'. Sure enough, it is still Targaryen incest, but Daemon isn't the kind of creepy uncle who always takes his little niece on his lap so that he can feed her sweets and eventually fumble her.

They do have a strong emotional connection in the first episode - Rhaenyra searches out Daemon in the throne room, and it is established that even while in KL he isn't much at court, clearly limiting the time he would have had to suck up to Rhaenyra.

I think that is a very smart thing to do since the historian's version of this thing is kind of naturally only going with something along the lines of 'seduction', 'corruption', the 'spoiling of maidens', etc. There is no room there for a young woman to actually explore her own sexuality and not be condemned for it. Even less so when the main sources on the inner workings of the court are a septon and perverse court jester.

(They retained Daemon's 'Valyrian fetish' so perhaps he secretly desires Rhaenyra ... but if that is the case then it is not something that he acts upon. At least not yet.)

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

2 hours ago, Frey family reunion said:

I kind of assumed seventeen or eighteen. II Yea, I can see a stink being raised.

I mean, Daemon and Rhaenyra's relationship would have been controversial anyway, and everyone involved knew what they signed up for. 

[The hairy bear]

4 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I’m talking about how people are convinced this is going to be the best show on television based on one episode.

If GoT was ever the best show on television, it was only briefly (perhaps after Breaking Bad ended and Homeland went downhill, but before the rise of The Americans or Succession). Does anyone have such expectations for House of the Dragon? After enduring the last seasons of GoT? I believe the initial expectations for most of us were "I hope it doesn't suck".

I believe that the optimism is due that while this first episode is far from perfect and has some issues that should have been addressed, is still the best episode in this world since, I'd say, season 4 of GoT. And most importantly, it shows that it's been done with great care and not on autopilot.

[The Bard of Banefort]

13 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

I think they really go out of their way there to make this not into some 'grooming thing'. Sure enough, it is still Targaryen incest, but Daemon isn't the kind of creepy uncle who always takes his little niece on his lap so that he can feed her sweets and eventually fumble her.

They do have a strong emotional connection in the first episode - Rhaenyra searches out Daemon in the throne room, and it is established that even while in KL he isn't much at court, clearly limiting the time he would have had to suck up to Rhaenyra.

I think that is a very smart thing to do since the historian's version of this thing is kind of naturally only going with something along the lines of 'seduction', 'corruption', the 'spoiling of maidens', etc. There is no room there for a young woman to actually explore her own sexuality and not be condemned for it. Even less so when the main sources on the inner workings of the court are a septon and perverse court jester.

(They retained Daemon's 'Valyrian fetish' so perhaps he secretly desires Rhaenyra ... but if that is the case then it is not something that he acts upon. At least not yet.)

I mean, that’s kind of what grooming is, isn’t it? Molding a younger person into being your ideal partner while having them think it’s for their own benefit.

Either way, Matt Smith is almost 40 and looks older. Milly Alcock is 22 and looks younger. It’s going to be weird no matter how they play it.

[C.T. Phipps]

1 minute ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I mean, that’s kind of what grooming is, isn’t it? Molding a younger person into being your ideal partner while having them think it’s for their own benefit.

Either way, Matt Smith is almost 40 and looks older. Milly Alcock is 22 and looks younger. It’s going to be weird no matter how they play it.

Which is why he's going to reject her until she's Emma D'Arcy.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

2 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

Which is why he's going to reject her until she's Emma D'Arcy.

Barely. They're walking on very thin ice here.

[Back in Black-Snow]

I loved the episode. Although, without having read Fire and Blood, I would have trouble remembering names. That may grow, considering they have a lot of gaps to fill.

 

But one thing I did notice was a lack of continuity. For example, Daemon had the favor on his jousting spear at one point, and just a few seconds later in the next shot it was not there.

Small details like that are what bother me, but I understand that it happens (kind of like water bottles spotted during filming of Game of Thrones)

But I can be overly critical when watching a movie or show. At work, it is common for coworkers to warn others regarding my take on them. "Don't listen to Travis. He didn't like John Wick." Lol

Edited August 26, 2022 by Back in Black-Snow

[zajaz]

So, reading some theories about how this season might go, I stumbled into another alleged leak, a couple of them, actually. Namely:

Spoiler

Apparently they are going to make Aegon the Elder into some kind of rapist, while making Aemond of all people more sympathetic. Also, it seems that Jacaerys will know that Harwin Strong is his father, and that he and his full brothers are actually bastards.

Needless to say, if these turn out to be true, it's going to be quite interesting seeing how other people might take this development.

Edited August 26, 2022 by zajaz

[C.T. Phipps]

7 minutes ago, zajaz said:

So, reading some theories about how this season might go, I stumbled into another alleged leak, a couple of them, actually. Namely:

  Hide contents

Apparently they are going to make Aegon the Elder into some kind of rapist, while making Aemond of all people more sympathetic. Also, it seems that Jacaerys will know that Harwin Strong is his father, and that he and his full brothers are actually bastards.

Needless to say, if these turn out to be true, it's going to be quite interesting seeing how other people might take this development.

I mean that's not a retcon. Fire and Blood makes it clear that:
 

Spoiler

Aegon sleeps with children. You can't not be a rapist that way.

 

Edited August 26, 2022 by C.T. Phipps

[zajaz]

8 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

I mean that's not a retcon. Fire and Blood makes it clear that:
 

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Aegon sleeps with children. You can't not be a rapist that way.

 

I was talking more about Aemond and the Strong kids, actually. I can actually see Aegon the Elder being something like what the leaks claim, but I'm surprised the writers did not try to make him less of an asshole.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I’m not talking about viewers. I’m talking about how people are convinced this is going to be the best show on television based on one episode.

There is no guarantee that HotD will be the best show on television, but it has every chance to become the biggest show on television, which is why HBO spent 200 million on marketing it. People might love it or hate it, but they will watch it, at the end of the day.

[The Bard of Banefort]

Even though S2 won’t have the time jumps, I think it’s going to prove to be a much bigger challenge for the writers than S1. A lot of main characters disappear from the story for long stretches of time, and there’s more focus on battles than character moments. They’re going to have to come up with a lot more material.