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US Politics: Hey wanna come to my office and see some Top Secret Eyes only documents?


Ser Scot A Ellison
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Just a reminder that we live in a police state, and that despite all the BLM / George Floyd white-knighting by corporate America and the Democratic Party, we are merely doubling down on locking up more people, giving police more training to avoid prosecution, and giving them carte blanche to pursue low-level offenses.  

https://time.com/6208047/police-crime-america/

Biden's ideas on this are destructive and bad, and always have been.  "More police" doesn't equal a safer society. 

And this also .makes me think that the slogan "defund the police" was never the issue, they don't want to reform them at all.  They love the status quo and want to give cops more power to fuck with poor people and minorities.

Edited by Larry of the Lake
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1 hour ago, Larry of the Lake said:

Biden's ideas on this are destructive and bad, and always have been.  "More police" doesn't equal a safer society. 

And this also .makes me think that the slogan "defund the police" was never the issue, they don't want to reform them at all.  They love the status quo and want to give cops more power to fuck with poor people and minorities.

This is a facile and disingenuous description of Biden's plan.  The first part is, yes, "more police," and I don't like it either - particularly because it still reflects the broken windows theory of crime prevention which is indeed destructive. 

However, at the least, the funding is tied to accountability measures that "include banning chokeholds and carotid holds except where deadly force is authorized; training officers in de-escalation tactics to prevent the unnecessary use of force; restricting the use of no-knock warrants; requiring that body cameras be activated when conducting arrests and searches and when on patrol; submitting data to the new National Law Enforcement Accountability Database that the Justice Department will create; and undertaking other consensus reforms." 

I question the efficacy of a lot of that too, but the body-cam requirement is something.

More importantly, there's an entire second part of the plan that is basically what the "defund the police" movement calls for reinvesting in - mental health services and social workers as alternate responders; expanding drug courts that emphasize treatment rather than incarceration;  job training, housing, and increased social services for the homeless; ensuring ex-cons have access to benefits and programs; and $5 billion for CVI programs.

Moreover, that funding is tied to jurisdictions repealing mandatory minimums for nonviolent crimes and other laws that exacerbate the incarceration rate.

It's hardly perfect, but Biden has done well to politically cover his ass on the issue while at least trying to address the reforms that are desperately needed.  And make no mistake, this could have been a huge vulnerability this cycle and still might.  The fact is not only has the increase in violent crime rates since covid not abated, but the public is correspondingly increasingly worried about crime.  And not just MAGA voters at all - the increased worry is concentrated in urban areas.  Not only is this borne out by polling, but anecdotally the fear has increased among my neighbors (and even some uninformed friends) in now two major cities since covid.

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45 minutes ago, DMC said:

This is a facile and disingenuous description of Biden's plan.  The first part is, yes, "more police," and I don't like it either - particularly because it still reflects the broken windows theory of crime prevention which is indeed destructive. 

However, at the least, the funding is tied to accountability measures that "include banning chokeholds and carotid holds except where deadly force is authorized; training officers in de-escalation tactics to prevent the unnecessary use of force; restricting the use of no-knock warrants; requiring that body cameras be activated when conducting arrests and searches and when on patrol; submitting data to the new National Law Enforcement Accountability Database that the Justice Department will create; and undertaking other consensus reforms." 

I question the efficacy of a lot of that too, but the body-cam requirement is something.

More importantly, there's an entire second part of the plan that is basically what the "defund the police" movement calls for reinvesting in - mental health services and social workers as alternate responders; expanding drug courts that emphasize treatment rather than incarceration;  job training, housing, and increased social services for the homeless; ensuring ex-cons have access to benefits and programs; and $5 billion for CVI programs.

Moreover, that funding is tied to jurisdictions repealing mandatory minimums for nonviolent crimes and other laws that exacerbate the incarceration rate.

It's hardly perfect, but Biden has done well to politically cover his ass on the issue while at least trying to address the reforms that are desperately needed.  And make no mistake, this could have been a huge vulnerability this cycle and still might.  The fact is not only has the increase in violent crime rates since covid not abated, but the public is correspondingly increasingly worried about crime.  And not just MAGA voters at all - the increased worry is concentrated in urban areas.  Not only is this borne out by polling, but anecdotally the fear has increased among my neighbors (and even some uninformed friends) in now two major cities since covid.

The "increase" in crime is bullshit.  Of course it's increasing from 2020, and we know that increasing police doesn't reduce crime. 

If this actually makes body cams more effective, great, if it stops them from having chokeholds being allowed great, but at the end of the day it's putting money where we know it doesn't work.  

Fix the root causes- reduce poverty and increase healthcare access and social services.  This is still the bullshit tough on crime/broken window/ blah blah blah.  We don't need more cops.  Even if there are a couple thing sin here that don't suck the increase in cops outweighs any of that. 

Eta: a lot of the media frenzy around shoplifting and shit is quite literally created by Police Department PR and corporate retailers trying to find a scapegoat for closing brick and mortar locations.  

 

Eta2: fine call it facile, I'm not claiming to be intelligent.  But what's disingenuous about it?  It's doubling down on shit we know doesn't work.  

Edited by Larry of the Lake
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1 minute ago, Larry of the Lake said:

The "increase" in crime is bullshit.  Of course it's increasing from 2020, and we know that increasing police doesn't reduce crime. 

.....Yeah, I said it was increasing since covid - or since 2020 - and has not abated.  I don't think more police is going to help either, but that doesn't make that fact "bullshit."

3 minutes ago, Larry of the Lake said:

at the end of the day it's putting money where we know it doesn't work.

Again, yes, but it's also putting pretty much the same amount of money exactly where the "defund the police" movement wants it to go.  Your original post entirely ignored this.  And further ignored the plan's emphasis on repealing mandatory minimums and generally decreasing the incarceration rate.

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Men have no place whatsoever in the medical lives of women because they know NOTHING about women's bodies whatsoever. Or sex. Or reproduction. Or medicine.  Or LIFE.  Or even themselves.  Also idiotically cruel for the sake of cruel.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/2022/09/01/abortion-ban-bill-south-carolina-house/

Quote

 

South Carolina’s House of Representatives is the latest legislative body to pass a near-total ban on abortion, following nauseating and weird floor debates that occurred on the House floor Tuesday and Wednesday. I wanted to see the sausage get made, and the process, it turns out, is even worse than you thought. Here is what I saw.

I watched members of the House meander to the dais to propose two dozen amendments to the original bill, all of which were designed to make the bill a little more or a little less draconian, but often more.

I watched one member suggest that social media could be used to spy on women suspected of seeking abortions. I watched one member propose prison time for women caught with abortion-causing drugs. I watched one claim that women lie “about getting raped or knocked up.” I watched many of these same members congratulate themselves for their humanity.

I watched a representative propose rape and incest exceptions specifically for underage girls. He gave, as a hypothetical example, a 12-year-old raped by her father. I watched as other representatives, who insisted they understood that rape was awful, declare that even a case like this would not be worth an exception.

“She had a choice,” an old man declared of this hypothetical pregnant 12-year-old girl, suggesting that she should have gone to a pharmacy and gotten Plan B after her father raped her, rather than need an abortion. [Clearly conveniently forgetting they are ruling that illegal and murder too.]

When asked how she would get to the pharmacy — would she ask her rapist father to drive her? — the representative replied that she could get there by ambulance. Did he think one would magically be waiting outside of her house after the rape?

You know what? I don’t think he really understands anything about rape at all.  ....

.... I watched a representative in a maroon blazer and plaid tie, a man who looked like a chorus member from a Christmas play about real estate agents, try to pass an amendment saying women who had abortions should be punished fully as murderers.

I watched as this particular amendment was voted down, and I felt immense relief.

Watching these bills being debated was like watching a conclave of grocers discuss whether customers, who used to be able to shop freely, should now be allowed to purchase a maximum of one raisin and half a macaroni noodle per week, or whether that would be too indulgent. How debasing it feels to beg for that macaroni noodle. How debasing, and how necessary. When the concept of a meal is off the table, when you know your choices are to accept scraps or starve, you fight for the scraps and try to forget what it once felt like to be full. ....

 

Please just have these men die. Now.

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12 minutes ago, Larry of the Lake said:

The "increase" in crime is bullshit.  Of course it's increasing from 2020, and we know that increasing police doesn't reduce crime. 

Major crimes in NYC are now back to their 2005 level, reversing 15 years of progress. You can dislike the solution and propose a different one, but don't pretend the problem doesn't exist.

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39 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

How can Stacey Abrams continue to run for governor when she just murdered her opponent live on television

When she mentioned the federal court ruling, he jerked his head the same way Papa Doc did during the battle in "8 Mile" when Eminem delivered the line "He went to Cranbrook, that's a private school!"

But it probably won't matter... Because in for a black woman running for office in the South in 2022 being twice as good as the mediocre white guy doesn't seem to be enough.

33 minutes ago, Mindwalker said:

And yet she'll probably lose...

Also, Herschel effing Walker seems to be leading again. Maybe time for Warnock to get a bit more aggressive?

Seriously, what's up with Georgia? They rather vote for a mentally unfit person to own the libs?!

Not just Georgia. It's the modern American right wing.

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13 minutes ago, DMC said:

.....Yeah, I said it was increasing since covid - or since 2020 - and has not abated.  I don't think more police is going to help either, but that doesn't make that fact "bullshit."

Again, yes, but it's also putting pretty much the same amount of money exactly where the "defund the police" movement wants it to go.  Your original post entirely ignored this.  And further ignored the plan's emphasis on repealing mandatory minimums and generally decreasing the incarceration rate.

I didn't address it because it's loaded with loopholes, like one of the alternatives is "strategies that reduce violent crime" including "vacant lot remediation".   The same way that COVID funds were misdirected to police departments, you know there's going to be money just getting dumped into police affiliated NGOs or developers pockets.  

The crack/coke sentencing disparity, yeah if they can fix that is good!  But they're now trying to make anything fentanyl related extra punishable.  They just keep the rotating scapegoat around to lock up nonwhite people. 

This is loaded with straight up bs, like cracking down on retail crime.  

I'll respond more later, Alex Karakatsanis wrote a bunch of pieces showing how the retail crime "spree" is completely fabricated.

This plan may have a couple of good things buried in it, but it's entire approach is is something we know does not work.  It's going to increase incarceration, which as far as I am concerned, is enough reason to know that it's mostly trash.  

Edited by Larry of the Lake
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8 minutes ago, Fez said:

Major crimes in NYC are now back to their 2005 level, reversing 15 years of progress. You can dislike the solution and propose a different one, but don't pretend the problem doesn't exist.

I have serious doubts about some of those statistics.  Call it a tinfoil hat, but I think they are trying to crush bail reform in NY.  

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2 minutes ago, Larry of the Lake said:

I didn't address it because it's loaded with loopholes

The same can be said for the plan's ability to actually hire a hundred thousand more cops, which obviously isn't going to happen.  Frankly I don't expect the plan to particularly efficacious on any of its policy outcomes, but your description is patently misleading and blatantly focused solely on whining about the bad parts.

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Retail crime sprees are NOT fabricated -- I've seen two myself, both in drugstores.  Not to mention what happened here the summer of 2020, our neighborhood looted for a whole weekend, and the cops did nothing.  Everything is under lock and key now, or just not available on the shelves.  A person must be found and the items requested.  They have to go into the supply storage cellars and get them -- and sometimes it means going across the street or down the block.  Our local supermarket has now got armed security prominent at night.

@Longrider inquired in the previous US Politics topic when Palin will start shrieking 'fraud.' She already has, according to the news crawls.

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8 minutes ago, DMC said:

The same can be said for the plan's ability to actually hire a hundred thousand more cops, which obviously isn't going to happen.  Frankly I don't expect the plan to particularly efficacious on any of its policy outcomes, but your description is patently misleading and blatantly focused solely on whining about the bad parts.

I guess I'll take the good with the bad while this shit is going to be supporting arresting women for having abortions.  

Honestly don't give a fuck about what kind of political needle Biden needs to thread or whatever.  This is objectively bad, and whatever 'good' stuff is int here is going to be attached dto a lot of horrible stuff.  Crazy I'd focus on the bad. 

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22 minutes ago, Larry of the Lake said:

I guess I'll take the good with the bad while this shit is going to be supporting arresting women for having abortions.  

Honestly don't give a fuck about what kind of political needle Biden needs to thread or whatever.  This is objectively bad, and whatever 'good' stuff is int here is going to be attached dto a lot of horrible stuff.  Crazy I'd focus on the bad. 

It’s smart politically for Democrats to pivot and try and appear as the party that cares about actual law and order and for reforming the police. This plan is far from perfect, but it does look like an overall improvement. Idk why you want to back losing strategies that will more likely than not lead to far worst outcomes.

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35 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

It’s smart politically for Democrats to pivot and try and appear as the party that cares about actual law and order and for reforming the police. This plan is far from perfect, but it does look like an overall improvement. Idk why you want to back losing strategies that will more likely than not lead to far worst outcomes.

What policies will lead to worse outcomes and more people locked up?  Please specify these losing policies.  This is not an improvement, it's not even a bandaid on a gunshot wound.  It's predicated on the right-wing view of criminal justice and incarceration .  

I'm not of the opinion that doing anything is worse than doing nothing.  This is going to be worse. 

Edited by Larry of the Lake
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45’s lawyer doesn’t want to be left out of being on the record telling the truth about 45.  The ‘he's not a slob’ defense is pathetic, and letting everyone one know he had visitors in the office, isn’t the defense she thinks it is.   She spills the beans at about 1:07 in. 
 

 

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