Craving Peaches Posted September 6, 2023 Share Posted September 6, 2023 6 hours ago, Roswell said: Arya has lost her sanity as well as her morality. Friendly reminder that Arya is not the one seeing and hearing things that aren't there and hallucinating and having strange dreams. Ser Arthurs Dawn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted September 6, 2023 Share Posted September 6, 2023 4 hours ago, Craving Peaches said: Friendly reminder that Arya is not the one seeing and hearing things that aren't there and hallucinating and having strange dreams. Arya has very strange dreams - but they make sense because she’s a powerful warg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted September 6, 2023 Share Posted September 6, 2023 1 hour ago, SeanF said: Arya has very strange dreams - but they make sense because she’s a powerful warg. Arya's dreams are normal compared to Daenerys'. Arya 'just' dreams she's an animal. Daenerys dreams about all these dead people speaking to her... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csuszka1948 Posted September 6, 2023 Share Posted September 6, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Craving Peaches said: Arya's dreams are normal compared to Daenerys'. Arya 'just' dreams she's an animal. Daenerys dreams about all these dead people speaking to her... To be fair, I don't think they are actually dreams or hallucinations - they are probably internal thoughts of Daenerys, written in the form of a dialogue (because otherwise it would be quite boring). Edited September 6, 2023 by csuszka1948 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosetta Stone Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 On 12/21/2022 at 12:32 PM, Here's Looking At You, Kid said: Merry Chrismas. May the Lord bless you and keep your family safe during this holiday season. Daenerys Targaryen is a better ruler and leader than Jon Snow. We are all familiar with their leadership styles. There is enough information for us to pass judgment on who the better leader is. I will start with Jon Snow. Jon Snow Jon is far from the worst leader in A Song of Ice and Fire. He is actually capable most of the time. His biggest strength as a leader is his ability to teach. Jon was able to teach the other less-fortunate cadets the proper use of the sword in combat. Yes, he was an arrogant and entitled fool when he arrived. A little man to man talk with a seasoned man helped open his eyes. Many of the fans praise Jon for protecting the craven cadet, Samwell Tarly. It is a well-earned praise. Samwell would have died from fright if Jon had not stepped in and helped. I have established that Jon Snow is basically an average guy who has had good training in the fighting arts. As a leader, he is usually capable of performing his job. However, he has big problems beneath his exterior. Many of the fans have already brought it up repeatedly. Jon has a chip on his shoulders. Push that chip and he goes ballistic. He is guilty of attacking Ser Alliser Thorne, a man of higher rank and status. He has anger management issues which culminated in the inappropriate way in which he judged two guilty men, Janos Slynt and Mance Rayder. By every laws of the land, it should have been the deserter and traitor, Mance Rayder, who was executed. Matters went downhill from there. He sent the deserter and turncloak to bring his sister to him at the Wall. This is an act of war against Roose and Ramsay Bolton. The Night's Watch should never, and never has until now, make war against the people of The Seven Kingdoms. I served in the military for a significant part of my early adult life. I have never been tested in the same way as Jon was with Arya. I will say there are a lot of men who would do as Jon did. They would forsake their duties, no matter how critical it is, to save their sisters. But there are still more who would do their duties and accept that they cannot help their sisters. For proof, you only have to look at those men who are in the business of rescuing and saving people and property. Many men would rather be at home with their families during an emergency crisis but instead they stay at their posts and do their jobs. I knew people who went to Kuwait while they had desperate families back home. Parents battling cancer. Wives struggling to raise handicapped children alone. I could go on and on. The point is, it is not unreasonable nor is it rare for people to do their jobs even when they have critical family concerns back home. And those men who can't do this should never be in command. It's fine for desk jockey to always sacrifice his duties for his families. But that is not acceptable for a commander of an organization who has been tasked with the protection of the kingdom from an existential threat. Quorin Halfhand said something in book 2. He said of Mance Rayder, he was the best and the worst of us. He had trouble obeying. Jon is very much like Mance Rayder. In many ways, he is the ideal black brother. But he is also the worst possible. Jon is a man gifted with martial skills. He is a smart young man who usually makes sound decisions. I don't think his inability to judge and prioritize will matter much with the Wildlings. To the Free Folk, whatever the strong man says is right is right. Might makes right with the Wildlings. Jon does not have to be fair, nor consistent. Laws among the Wildlings are not as well-defined. Daenerys Targaryen Princess Daenerys Targaryen began the story a scared and nervous young girl. Forced to marry into an alien culture, she used her natural intelligence to thrive. Courage, intelligence, and determination allowed her to adapt to the Dothraki culture. She brought the dragons back from extinction. She had the smarts and the courage to lead her khalasar beyond the Red Waste until they reached Vaes Tolorro. This is nothing less than remarkable for a girl of her age. She defeated the Undying in the Palace of Dust with the help of her dragon, Drogon. Over and over, Daenerys has managed to use her intelligence and her cunning to outmaneuver her adversaries. She has become a very good player of the game of thrones with a style all her own. Queen Daenerys has become the conqueror and the ruler of the slaver city of Meereen. She knows what we know. As humans, we have a responsibility to make laws and judge the guilty. The Meereenese masters perpetrated the most heinous war crime in the entire saga so far. This is many times more heinous than the Red Wedding in The Twins. The masters crucified the children of their slaves and used them to decorate the road to the city. This kind of crime cannot go unpunished. To do so would be to deny justice to those children. Allowing the Meereenese to bring forth the guilty is a modern concept of peers judging peers. It is certainly preferable to the arbitrary trial of combat being practiced in Westeros. She is facing an enemy who refuse to fight her troops in open combat. And yet, she refused to execute her cup bearers. This was a smart move. Those children can be socialized and educated away from their slaver parents. These children will be the foundation of a free Slaver's Bay. The situation in Meereen is very complicated. Skahaz, Reznak, and Hizdahr are unreliable allies. Daenerys has been warned to be careful by Quaithe. Yet, she reacts with reason and caution. Cersei would have had them all killed. But a good leader knows that you have to trust people. Everything carries a risk. One person cannot manage a city of the size of Meereen. Jorah's betrayal is revealed. Daenerys wisely did not kill the man and instead sent him into exile. Daenerys is a reflective, thoughtful person. Which is a good quality for someone who has to make decisions. She has some learning to do but her potential as a ruler is without limits. I would choose her to rule Westeros. Indeed Dany is the better governor and ruler. Jon is not cut out to lead. He is a lonesome troublemaker like Mance. Dany is really good at leading people. We saw that talent when she took her Khalasar through the desert and got them to safety. The Lord of the Crossing and James Fenimore Cooper XXII 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaffronLady Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 1 hour ago, Rosetta Stone said: Dany is really good at leading people. We saw that talent when she took her Khalasar through the desert and got them to safety. Mance is really good at leading people. We saw that talent when he took the wildlings through the Wall and got them to safety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csuszka1948 Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 3 hours ago, SaffronLady said: Mance is really good at leading people. We saw that talent when he took the wildlings through the Wall and got them to safety. I mean, Mance is genuinely good at leading people. He would have succeeded with getting through the Wall if not for the completely unexpected arrival of Stannis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaffronLady Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 25 minutes ago, csuszka1948 said: I mean, Mance is genuinely good at leading people. He would have succeeded with getting through the Wall if not for the completely unexpected arrival of Stannis. 5 hours ago, Rosetta Stone said: Jon is not cut out to lead. He is a lonesome troublemaker like Mance. (chuckles) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csuszka1948 Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 50 minutes ago, SaffronLady said: (chuckles) Ok, I haven't seen that quote. Lonesome troublemaker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 6 hours ago, Rosetta Stone said: Indeed Dany is the better governor and ruler. Jon is not cut out to lead. He is a lonesome troublemaker like Mance. Dany is really good at leading people. We saw that talent when she took her Khalasar through the desert and got them to safety. Funny because Daenerys has lead one city into complete ruin with a second appearing to follow. She's such a good leader that she just ran off when everyone needed her. LongRider 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 7 hours ago, Rosetta Stone said: Indeed Dany is the better governor and ruler. Jon is not cut out to lead. He is a lonesome troublemaker like Mance. Dany is really good at leading people. We saw that talent when she took her Khalasar through the desert and got them to safety. It's been a while since I've seen you guys and your hate posts. Did you take the summer off or something? SeanF, kissdbyfire, Alester Florent and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lord of the Crossing Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 On 12/21/2022 at 9:32 AM, Here's Looking At You, Kid said: Dany is the one on the path to become the ideal ruler. Her character development is leading her towards becoming the perfect governing monarch. She has the tools: high intelligence, a feel for playing the game of thrones, beauty, charm, and wonderful talent for leading and inspiring people. Jon, on the other hand, was never a good fit to lead people. James Fenimore Cooper XXII and Wolf's Bane 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lord of the Crossing Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 Someone mentioned Mance. I don't like that damn wilding but yes he has been effective leader for the savages. He is as good as Dany at leadership. But Dany is very young. She will become even better when she is at the same age and experience as Mance. Wolf's Bane 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf's Bane Posted September 11, 2023 Share Posted September 11, 2023 On 9/10/2023 at 10:30 AM, The Lord of the Crossing said: Dany is the one on the path to become the ideal ruler. Her character development is leading her towards becoming the perfect governing monarch. She has the tools: high intelligence, a feel for playing the game of thrones, beauty, charm, and wonderful talent for leading and inspiring people. Jon, on the other hand, was never a good fit to lead people. Jon's emotional issues make him a bad choice to lead. His inferiority complex at being a bastard is a major emotional handicap. Here's Looking At You, Kid 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaffronLady Posted September 11, 2023 Share Posted September 11, 2023 3 hours ago, Wolf's Bane said: Jon's emotional issues make him a bad choice to lead. His inferiority complex at being a bastard is a major emotional handicap. Dany's emotional issues make her a bad choice to lead. Her inferiority complex at being a sold child is a major emotional handicap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted September 11, 2023 Share Posted September 11, 2023 On 9/5/2023 at 11:51 AM, sifth said: How has this thread not been locked yet? It's basically devolved into a hive for trolls. Maybe it’s better to let them breed on this (and similar) threads, rather than have them affect the whole site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted September 11, 2023 Share Posted September 11, 2023 1 hour ago, SeanF said: Maybe it’s better to let them breed on this (and similar) threads, rather than have them affect the whole site. They keep making more and more threads though. There is, aside from this one: 'Tully Madness' 'Arya, the Darkheart' 'Silent Arya' 'Jon Snow is likely to go insane' And that is just about 'Mad Starks'. There are so many and new ones are created all the time. Aldarion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Here's Looking At You, Kid Posted September 17, 2023 Author Share Posted September 17, 2023 On 9/8/2023 at 12:14 AM, SaffronLady said: Mance is really good at leading people. We saw that talent when he took the wildlings through the Wall and got them to safety. He is clever and he very easily outsmarted Jon and Stannis. Leadership wise, yeah he's good. But not as good as Dany. You see, Mance had to prove he can kick butt better than any other freefolk. That was the only credentials he needed. Throwing thousands of his wildling guys at the gate resulted in huge loses. Dany defeated Meereen through finesse and intelligence. Aline de Gavrillac 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Here's Looking At You, Kid Posted September 17, 2023 Author Share Posted September 17, 2023 On 9/10/2023 at 11:31 PM, Wolf's Bane said: Jon's emotional issues make him a bad choice to lead. His inferiority complex at being a bastard is a major emotional handicap. Yup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaffronLady Posted September 17, 2023 Share Posted September 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said: Throwing thousands of his wildling guys at the gate resulted in huge loses. Dany defeated Meereen through finesse and intelligence. The Wall does not have sewers, which was how Dany's soldiers infiltrated Meereen. Comparison failed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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