The Lord of the Crossing Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 (edited) A lot of talk on the appropriate punishment for Arya Stark for the crimes of foul murder. Specifically, the murders of Dareon and the Insurance Underwriter. She is guilty of many more murders but some are claiming those others acts of self-defense. The old witch saw many more murders in Arya's short future but we can only judge and sentence for crimes already committed. There is no justice in punishing somebody for what they might do or what they are predicted to do. And this is about justice. Arya has no objections to handing the dead. A fair punishment for crimes already committed is a life time of servitude to the Silent Sisters. There obviously has to be a method to keep Arya from running away. And we can further speculate on how that might be accomplished. Perhaps a magic binder that will keep Arya bound to the Silent sisters or something of the like. This is fair in my opinion. At least she is given a chance for redemption even though she feels no guilt. Comment below and let me know if you consider this too light of a sentence. Too light or just right? Edited March 22 by The Lord of the Crossing James West, Moiraine Sedai, Only 89 selfies today and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevets Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 (edited) I think pretty much everyone thinks the people she killed in Westeros were self-defense. As for the insurance broker, I consider that the fault of the Faceless Men. He was their target and they manipulated her into doing it. Also, I've no doubt if she hadn't done it, someone else would have. So that leaves Dareon. I would give her the fate she dreads more than any other: make her a Lady. Give her a husband she likes (Edric Dayne seemed pretty nice) and a castle to run. She'll hate you for it. But she'd probably do more good there than with Silent Sisters. She'd like it a lot better too, but don't tell her that. By the way, Dareon was a little shit; he got what he deserved. Edited March 22 by Nevets Nathan Stark, BlackLightning, Curled Finger and 5 others 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alester Florent Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 1 hour ago, The Lord of the Crossing said: A lot of talk on the appropriate punishment for Arya Stark for the crimes of foul murder. Is there? I count four recent posts, all from the usual Stark-hate crowd, all of them formulaically brief, and outnumbered by posts rejecting the premise. The debate on how best to punish Arya is hardly lighting up the board. Northern Sword, Curled Finger, Craving Peaches and 5 others 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 (edited) 1 hour ago, The Lord of the Crossing said: She is guilty of many more murders but some are claiming those others acts of self-defense. Like what? Killing guy who was going to hand her over to Cersei? Quote As Arya collects horse tack, she finds her broken chest on the ground. She gropes around for Needle. Just as her fingers touch the sword a stable boy appears behind her with a pitchfork. She asks him to help her saddle a horse, saying her father will reward him. The boy responds that her father is dead and that the queen will reward him. When he grabs her arm, Arya forgets all of Syrio’s lessons, only remembering the lesson that Jon Snow taught her. She sticks the pointy end through the boy’s belly, killing him. So, the guy has come up behind her, cornered her. Arya doesn't look to have a means of escape. He then implies, while armed with a pitchfork, that he's going to bring her to the Queen, which Arya believes will lead to her harm or death (a reasonable person in her position would likely think the same), and grabs hold of her. He has a pitchfork so he's not attacking her unarmed, therefore I think stabbing is a proportionate response in this situation. So it looks like self-defence to me... As for the guards she helped to kill, and those she had Jaqen kill, that was not in the King's Peace, was it? With the killing she committed on behalf of the Faceless Men, there are a range of considerations you have to take into account, some of which may be great enough to lead to Diminished Responsibility, and so Arya would not be liable for murder. The only incident where I think there are no excuses at all was with the murder of Dareon. Arya herself seems to recognise this as wrong, based on her repeated attempts to justify it to herself by thinking he was a deserter who deserved to die over and over again. But also Arya is only 11 so she isn't old enough to be criminally responsible (in Scotland). Also, this thread is silly. You already have your 'Arya, the Darkheart' thread where this was discussed to death. What is the purpose of making another? You don't seem to want any feedback that isn't tinted with Stark bias as everything in the other thread was just ignored when it conflicted with what you wanted to see happen to Arya... Edited March 22 by Craving Peaches Northern Sword and Ser Arthurs Dawn 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevets Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Alester Florent said: Is there? I count four recent posts, all from the usual Stark-hate crowd, all of them formulaically brief, and outnumbered by posts rejecting the premise. The debate on how best to punish Arya is hardly lighting up the board. Maybe we should ask the OP the proper punishment for his namesake. That guy's got more murders to his credit than Arya could ever hope to commit. @Craving Peaches Murders, plural, for the Faceless Men? I'm only aware of one (insurance guy). Edited March 22 by Nevets ladyjane50 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 6 minutes ago, Nevets said: Murders, plural, for the Faceless Men? I'm only aware of one (insurance guy) Quite right. I will suitably amend my post. Curled Finger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevets Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 2 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: Quite right. I will suitably amend my post. Good. I was afraid maybe you had bought into a wild theory about the preview chapter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 1 minute ago, Nevets said: Good. I was afraid maybe you had bought into a wild theory about the preview chapter. I think I know what you are talking about: Spoiler Raff's killing? But I have only read the preview chapter once and I don't tend to count anything in them since they are not finalised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rondo Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Fifteen years of servitude for Dareon's murder. The same amount of time for the Insurance man. That's thirty years in total. Reduce time for good behavior, to 12 years for each crime for a total of 24. ladyjane50 and Northern Sword 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 I'm sorry, I don't give much of a toss for either Daeron or the insurance broker. MissM, ladyjane50, Northern Sword and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astarkchoice Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 The insurance broker was screwing over widows by not paying out as he should so he was then merely a thief and fraudster preying on the vunerable! Daeron forsook his NW vows ..had he still been north another stark would have killed him anyway. The coin he spent on whores could have been buying supplies for his brothers or easing old man aemons passage to the other side. Nathan Stark, LongRider, Northern Sword and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Sword Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 41 minutes ago, astarkchoice said: The insurance broker was screwing over widows by not paying out as he should so he was then merely a thief and fraudster preying on the vunerable! Daeron forsook his NW vows ..had he still been north another stark would have killed him anyway. The coin he spent on whores could have been buying supplies for his brothers or easing old man aemons passage to the other side. Agreed, Maybe a reward for services to the crown should be talked about. Arya is cleaning up the streets. Curled Finger and LongRider 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aejohn the Conqueroo Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 6 hours ago, The Lord of the Crossing said: And this is about justice. You misspelled 'comedy'. SaffronLady, kissdbyfire and Curled Finger 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevets Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 59 minutes ago, astarkchoice said: The insurance broker was screwing over widows by not paying out as he should so he was then merely a thief and fraudster preying on the vunerable! Daeron forsook his NW vows ..had he still been north another stark would have killed him anyway. The coin he spent on whores could have been buying supplies for his brothers or easing old man aemons passage to the other side. Actually, we don't know that the insurance broker is actually cheating people. All the FM said was that he sold binders, and that it is one thing to sell a binder, and another to make good on it. They imply he's cheating people, but don't directly say it. I don't trust these guys and think they are manipulating Arya. I accept the literal truth of what they say, but I don't go any further. For all we know, he has angry competitors, impatient heirs, or a wife wishing to remarry. We really don't know. Curled Finger, Groo and Morte 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 I wonder what punishment befits this 9 year old girl for her pride and rebel rousing? Lying? Assuming identities and sharing secrets with the FM? How should her insurrection at Harrenhal be handled as an enemy of the crown? Oh surely we can come up with better punishments for this what is she now? 11 or 12 years old? Punishments that are more suited to her many and myriad crimes before she comes and exacts some real justice in Westeros? If she can be caught, that is. Best get moving, by the looks of things she may be headed west even now. Ser Arthurs Dawn, Craving Peaches, LongRider and 1 other 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Arthurs Dawn Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 35 minutes ago, Curled Finger said: I wonder what punishment befits this 9 year old girl for her pride and rebel rousing? Lying? Assuming identities and sharing secrets with the FM? How should her insurrection at Harrenhal be handled as an enemy of the crown? Oh surely we can come up with better punishments for this what is she now? 11 or 12 years old? Punishments that are more suited to her many and myriad crimes before she comes and exacts some real justice in Westeros? If she can be caught, that is. Best get moving, by the looks of things she may be headed west even now. Lady Stoneheart will bring her to justice! Lately, people are either demonizing her or romanticizing her story by refusing to see the trauma she's developing. I have to say though, the reactions on here are particularly funny. All the Stark kids are on full survival mode and all the haters keep screeching, "no! don't survive like that!" *Arya kills in self defense* "murderer! kill her!" *Sansa being passive* "worthless! off with her head!" *Bran skinchanges into Hodor because he has shitty teacher* "demonnnnnnnnnnnn! KILL HIM!" *Jon uniting FF & NW* "TRAITOR! he deserved his death!" *Rickon* "savage! may the unicorn pierce his chest with its horn!" Craving Peaches, Curled Finger, Groo and 3 others 3 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Bread and water and chained to an oar for ten years, yeah, that will do it. Curled Finger and Ser Arthurs Dawn 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Being on this board and seeing these repetitive, monotonous, ignorant threads is punishment enough for poor Arya... Admirable Privy, Aejohn the Conqueroo, Ser Arthurs Dawn and 4 others 3 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Stark Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Silent Arya 9 hours ago, The Lord of the Crossing said: A lot of talk on the appropriate punishment for Arya Stark for the crimes of foul murder. Specifically, the murders of Dareon and the Insurance Underwriter. She is guilty of many more murders but some are claiming those others acts of self-defense. The old witch saw many more murders in Arya's short future but we can only judge and sentence for crimes already committed. There is no justice in punishing somebody for what they might do or what they are predicted to do. And this is about justice. Arya has no objections to handing the dead. A fair punishment for crimes already committed is a life time of servitude to the Silent Sisters. There obviously has to be a method to keep Arya from running away. And we can further speculate on how that might be accomplished. Perhaps a magic binder that will keep Arya bound to the Silent sisters or something of the like. This is fair in my opinion. At least she is given a chance for redemption even though she feels no guilt. Comment below and let me know if you consider this too light of a sentence. Too light or just right? Sorry. What does any of this have to do with Arya being silent? Craving Peaches and Ser Arthurs Dawn 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastWolf Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 (edited) Punishment? Lay her across the knees and give her a good spanking. Spoiler Bunch of Pe- Edited March 22 by TheLastWolf Ser Arthurs Dawn and Aejohn the Conqueroo 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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