US Politics: #Musky DeSaster

[Ormond]

Well, yes of course I know about that

8 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

@Ormond

Have you heard about this?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/nebraska-trans-abortion-bill-christy-armendariz-b2343548.html

Well of course I know about that. I would think that the commentd that legislators "seem not to know or care what they're doing as long as it feels right to them and they have the votes to do it" is actually even more true for many states other than Nebraska. Remember that just a couple of weeks ago we did defeat a six-week abortion ban by convincing an 80 year old Republican male state senator that since most women don't yet know they are pregnant at six weeks this was unreasonable. The anti-abortion faction in the legislature had to change that to 10 weeks to get his vote.  

Edited May 23, 2023 by Ormond

[DMC]

1 minute ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I admit I don’t drink whiskey all that often.  But when I do I take it straight (neat if it’s scotch).

Right.  Like I said, on special occasions I do so too.  Usually scotch, but also top-shelf American or Irish whisky.  Due to how much I consume on the regular, though, it's much more responsible to include chaser.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

5 minutes ago, Ormond said:

Well, yes of course I know about that

Well of course I know about that. I would think that the commentd that legislators "seem not to know or care what they're doing as long as it feels right to them and they have the votes to do it" is actually even more true for many states other than Nebraska. Remember that just a couple of weeks ago we did defeat a six-week abortion ban by convincing an 80 year old Republican male state senator that since most women don't yet know they are pregnant at six weeks this was unreasonable. The anti-abortion faction in the legislature had to change that to 12 weeks to get his vote.  

I’m simply floored a State Senator would say they “don’t follow the news”.

[Ormond]

5 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I’m simply floored a State Senator would say they “don’t follow the news”.

I guess I'd have to say, Scott, that you often seem tobe "floored" by elected public officials making stupid comments, which seems to be par for the course to me.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

2 minutes ago, Ormond said:

I guess I'd have to say, Scott, that you often seem tobe "floored" by elected public officials making stupid comments, which seems to be par for the course to me.

Maybe I shouldn’t be.  But I still believe people should care about what they do and how it impacts people.  I refuse to get cynical about this.  

[Kalbear]

3 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Maybe I shouldn’t be.  But I still believe people should care about what they do and how it impacts people.  I refuse to get cynical about this.  

It's not cynicism. It's realism. I mean, feel free to continually be shocked at the depravities that they are willing to do and the naked incompetence that they have, but that is who they are. There is no level that they will not sink provided they get benefit from it. They will not stop; they will only be stopped.

[Ormond]

6 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Maybe I shouldn’t be.  But I still believe people should care about what they do and how it impacts people.  I refuse to get cynical about this.  

Hey, I'm really much less cynical than most people on this thread. I don't automatically think a politician making one stupid remark is a sign he or she is incompetent or unethical.  Could just be a normal everyday brain glitch that happens to all of us every day. I don't know enough about this particular person to know what the explanation is. But I think it is unrealistic not to realize that all humans often make stupid remarks and aren't always thinking clearly, whether or not we "care about what we do."

[karaddin]

And Montana just passed a law defining sex as male or female with rather clunky definitions that manages to define some people as both and some as none despite claiming an iron clad binary

https://apnews.com/article/transgender-birth-certificate-define-sex-male-female-e17e5eae36991f8ca1d197ddebad0b72

[DMC]

6 minutes ago, Ormond said:

Hey, I'm really much less cynical than most people on this thread. I don't automatically think a politician making one stupid remark is a sign he or she is incompetent or unethical.  Could just be a normal everyday brain glitch that happens to all of us every day. I don't know enough about this particular person to know what the explanation is. But I think it is unrealistic not to realize that all humans often make stupid remarks and aren't always thinking clearly, whether or not we "care about what we do."

Yeah once I had to talk (lecture) for a living I found I became much more empathetic to rhetorical gaffes.  I make them all the time.  I actually put in my syllabus now that it's fine if you record me, but please don't put me on youtube.  It's just mean. 

Like that Santos clip that was posted the other day, sometimes you fuck things up.  NBD.  There's plenty of legit stuff to make fun of George Santos for.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

59 minutes ago, Ormond said:

Hey, I'm really much less cynical than most people on this thread. I don't automatically think a politician making one stupid remark is a sign he or she is incompetent or unethical.  Could just be a normal everyday brain glitch that happens to all of us every day. I don't know enough about this particular person to know what the explanation is. But I think it is unrealistic not to realize that all humans often make stupid remarks and aren't always thinking clearly, whether or not we "care about what we do."

Palin's star was wrecked in part because she couldn't say want newspapers she read to stay informed and rightfully so. These people all need to be held to a higher standard, especially when more and more of them just seem to want to get famous more so than do the work their job entails. I get what @DMC is saying, we all make gaffes, but i think there's a different between getting the year JFK became president in wrong and saying he fought on the side of the Nazis. An elected official of any party or level saying they don't follow the news is unacceptable. 

Edited May 23, 2023 by Tywin et al.

[DMC]

11 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Palin's star was wrecked in part because she couldn't say want newspapers she read to stay informed and rightfully so. These people all need to be held to a higher standard, especially when more and more of them just seem to want to get famous more so than do the work their job entails.

Well sure.  Sarah Palin was rightfully lampooned not because of any specific gaffe (although I suppose being able to see Russia from Alaska would count), but the entirety of her public presentation demonstrating she doesn't know anything.  That's different.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

21 minutes ago, DMC said:

Well sure.  Sarah Palin was rightfully lampooned not because of any specific gaffe (although I suppose being able to see Russia from Alaska would count), but the entirety of her public presentation demonstrating she doesn't know anything.  That's different.

The point I was trying to make is when someone in elected office says something profoundly stupid they should be fair game to dig into what other dumb shit they've said or done, whereas making a minor error should be allowed to slide. 

[DMC]

1 minute ago, Tywin et al. said:

The point I was trying to make is when someone in elected office says something profoundly stupid they should be fair game to dig into what other dumb shit they've said or done, whereas making a minor error should be allowed to slide. 

Yeah, of course.  Just saying the internet can often get hyperbolic about the latter.  I know, shocker.

[Zorral]

Matt Gaetz came out and just said it, re the debt ceiling: "I don't believe in negotiating with our hostage."

https://newrepublic.com/post/172946/matt-gaetz-admits-republicans-holding-america-hostage-debt-ceiling

Don't waste you time pearl clutching over 'lefty'  extremism. There isn't any.  It's all over there, and They are killing us already.  So many of us.  Every day.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

39 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Matt Gaetz came out and just said it, re the debt ceiling: "I don't believe in negotiating with our hostage."

https://newrepublic.com/post/172946/matt-gaetz-admits-republicans-holding-america-hostage-debt-ceiling

Don't waste you time pearl clutching over 'lefty'  extremism. There isn't any.  It's all over there, and They are killing us already.  So many of us.  Every day.

No, say it ain't so. Those who don't want to do anything about climate collapse or school shootings would intentionally wreck the economy for what they perceive is their own gain? 

Get my fainting couch. 

[Zorral]

Just now, Tywin et al. said:

No, say it ain't so. Those who don't want to do anything about climate collapse or school shootings would intentionally wreck the economy for what they perceive is their own gain? 

Get my fainting couch. 

and yet, yet, so many, are so concerned that 'leftys' are too extreme and we must Do Something! about that for fear of ... what? pissing off the lynchers, mass shooters, stranglers, deniers of climate change, health care, housing and food.  feh.  What a frackin' waste of time.

[karaddin]

4 hours ago, Zorral said:

Matt Gaetz came out and just said it, re the debt ceiling: "I don't believe in negotiating with our hostage."

https://newrepublic.com/post/172946/matt-gaetz-admits-republicans-holding-america-hostage-debt-ceiling

Don't waste you time pearl clutching over 'lefty'  extremism. There isn't any.  It's all over there, and They are killing us already.  So many of us.  Every day.

I know the important part is that it's removing yet another mask, but I'm caught up on how fucking wrong it is. Taking a hostage is normally leverage in a negotiation, even if that negotiation is as simple as "don't come in here/get out of our way", and in this analogy America is the hostage but you'd be negotiating with the Democrats not America. Why are they so shit at everything.

[DMC]

14 minutes ago, karaddin said:

Why are they so shit at everything.

It's either pride or naivete to think you could do significantly better.  The Dems do have their issues, but shitting on them isn't particularly helpful and often isn't warranted.  When it comes to the debt ceiling, they're in an impossible position every goddamned time there's a Dem president and a GOP House.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Welcome to a society that doesn't watch the news closely or study issues. 

https://thehill.com/changing-america/enrichment/education/3640520-less-than-half-of-americans-can-name-all-three-branches-of-government-survey-finds/

It's common to find that a majority of Americans cannot name all three branches of the federal government. To expect them to really understand how the debt ceiling works is just silly. We're a nation of idiots. Why do you think so many Members of Congress are trash? Because dumbasses vote for them or just don't vote at all. 

But freeeeeeeedumb!!!!!

[DMC]

Yeah, maybe the American public is confused about why us and Denmark are the only industrialized democracies that even have a debt ceiling - not to mention Denmark's is set up in a way it will never be reached and is not subject to the brinksmanship the GOP uses it for.

The American public may be stupid in a number of ways, but you can't put the debt ceiling on them.  That weaponization and idiocy is entirely on the assholes in DC.