Football: VARying degrees of dissatisfaction inside.

[baxus]

It wasn't me who arbitrarily appointed 2006 as year zero.

 

[Mexal]

44 minutes ago, baxus said:

Success brings more money that allows spending more to maintain success, it's the same across Europe.

But which rich owners are lending money to the team in the top 6, other than City and, previously, Chelsea? Spurs owners are notoriously tightfisted, Arsenal and Liverpool's owners have been accused of it as well (though nowhere near as bad as Spurs, of course), United fans are crying over how Glazers have been running the club for decades now... That case can only be made for City and Chelsea.

Unfortunately, that is absolutely correct. We'd all like to see a small club win trophies with academy players, but the whole system makes that impossible. Salary cap and drafts would make it a less unlikely but still not very likely. I mean, smaller teams rarely win trophies even in American pro leagues.

United have spent a lot of money for ETH. Fans complain because that money spent has led to them being shit but it’s not like they have been cheap.

Arsenal, once Kroenke took over completely, has spent a lot of money recently and part of that is loans from KSE on back of their Stanley Cup, NBA championship and Super Bowl wins.

Liverpool spends but also does a good job of unloading so they’re net spend isn’t insane but they get more for their players which allows them to bring in some bigger names (Nunez for example).

Spurs are cheap but it doesn’t help they just built a new stadium. And they still spend more than the rest outside of say Newcastle. It’s why they’re fairly unlikely to win the league, depth just isn’t enough.

In American sports (NFL, NBA), it’s a star driven league. If you have a generational talent at QB or in NBA, you have a much higher chance of continued success. And that comes from drafting mostly. In MLB, it’s mostly money these days.

Edited January 16 by Mexal

[Heartofice]

There is a pretty close, if not direct correlation between a teams wage bill and its premier league position. There are going to be some anomalies, especially with United who massively over spend compared to their performance, but it’s a pretty good indicator of where a team is going to finish.

i think these are numbers for this season 

1. Manchester United – £200,996,000
2. Manchester City – £192,712,000
3. Arsenal – £155,896,000
4. Liverpool – £134,940,000
5. Chelsea – £128,804,000
6. Aston Villa – £99,840,000
7. Tottenham – £91,000,000
8. West Ham United – £90,480,000
9. Newcastle United – £85,800,000
10. Everton – £74,662,000
11. Nottingham Forest – £59,050,000
12. Crystal Palace – £52,150,000
13. Bournemouth – £48,594,000
14. Fulham – £47,580,000
15. Brighton – £47,268,000
16. Wolves – £41,600,000
17. Brentford – £34,398,000
18. Burnley – £20,978,000
19. Sheffield United – £13,302,800
20. Luton Town – £3,662,000

Edited January 16 by Heartofice

[BigFatCoward]

1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

There is a pretty close, if not direct correlation between a teams wage bill and its premier league position. There are going to be some anomalies, especially with United who massively over spend compared to their performance, but it’s a pretty good indicator of where a team is going to finish.

i think these are numbers for this season 

1. Manchester United – £200,996,000
2. Manchester City – £192,712,000
3. Arsenal – £155,896,000
4. Liverpool – £134,940,000
5. Chelsea – £128,804,000
6. Aston Villa – £99,840,000
7. Tottenham – £91,000,000
8. West Ham United – £90,480,000
9. Newcastle United – £85,800,000
10. Everton – £74,662,000
11. Nottingham Forest – £59,050,000
12. Crystal Palace – £52,150,000
13. Bournemouth – £48,594,000
14. Fulham – £47,580,000
15. Brighton – £47,268,000
16. Wolves – £41,600,000
17. Brentford – £34,398,000
18. Burnley – £20,978,000
19. Sheffield United – £13,302,800
20. Luton Town – £3,662,000

Christ. A squad of 25 people from the board probably make close to what Luton make. 

[Consigliere]

Those numbers are way off. United, City, Liverpool and Chelsea's wage bills were all in excess of £300m based off the accounts published for the 2021/2022 season. The 2022/2023 accounts were submitted to the PL in December but haven't been published for the public as yet. Anyone claiming to know the wage bills for 2023/2024 are just making wild guesses. 

[polishgenius]

4 hours ago, Mexal said:

United have spent a lot of money for ETH. Fans complain because that money spent has led to them being shit 

 

 

Well, partly. Half the complaint has been that the running of the club has just been incompetent, but the other half is that as much as we spend we'd have a lot more to spend if it wasn't for a substantial portion of the income going to (1) servicing the debts on the buyout and (2) the Glazers. Like, baxus was asking which rich owners lend or give their clubs money-  United's spend is the club's own money.

[Heartofice]

1 hour ago, Consigliere said:

Those numbers are way off. United, City, Liverpool and Chelsea's wage bills were all in excess of £300m based off the accounts published for the 2021/2022 season. The 2022/2023 accounts were submitted to the PL in December but haven't been published for the public as yet. Anyone claiming to know the wage bills for 2023/2024 are just making wild guesses. 

Those are the estimates from FBref,  which I took from this article. https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/premier-league-wage-bill-ranking-2023-24-man-utd-liverpool-arsenal

Another article here does have differing numbers, especially at the bottom, big jump for Luton.
https://www.teamtalk.com/news/ranking-every-premier-league-club-by-their-annual-wage-bill-man-utd-above-liverpool-and-arsenal

I think the point still stands though, your wage bill is a pretty good indicator of where you will finish in a season.

[Consigliere]

I agree that the main point stands. Clubs that are able to pay the highest wages in a league will, over the medium to long term, finish higher up and win more trophies too.

Those numbers from Fbref and Teamtalk are complete horseshit though. No club has published any financial information whatsoever for 2023/2024 so those are just wild guesses. There's no chance that the wage bills are that low especially at the top end. 

[baxus]

FFP does not limit money club can spend on transfers, wages etc. to a specific amount, but to an amount proportionate to the club's income. Clubs have different incomes, for various reasons. Manchester United is commercially one of the biggest clubs in the world and have an advantage over the rest of the league when it comes to marketing money, the same way, for example, Liverpool has an advantage over, for example, Luton when it comes to match day revenue. Should clubs with higher incomes be punished for their commercial/financial success? Or should the owners just pocket the profit, like Glazers have been doing for decades now?

No one is saying that Newcastle can't spend more money but they need to do it in a way that won't put the club at risk of ruin if their owners just decide to quit at some point.

[Consigliere]

 

[AncalagonTheBlack]

 

[baxus]

@AncalagonTheBlack You are aware that, as a Liverpool fan, you can't complain about the refs even when refs admit their mistake, aren't you? 

[Teng Ai Hui]

As Ms. Teng told me several years ago, “If you follow the Chinese men’s national team, all you’ll get is disappointment.”

[polishgenius]

Kudus, what a player.

[AncalagonTheBlack]

Salah off injured, hamstring. FFS! 

[BigFatCoward]

Is Troy Deeney the worst manager in history, 6 games, a sending off, terrible results and insane rants about his players - 

"Dabo was poor and awful again and I have just told him that he will not be playing on Tuesday.

"He has not been good enough for eight or nine weeks, why do you think he was dropped at the start," Deeney added. "I have just told him in front of everyone, six months ago that kid had a kick to go to thePremier League, now he would not get a game in the National League, so is that me or him?

"He?s faster than everybody, but he gets run every game, he never makes a tackle and every time the ball comes to him, he looks like he kicks it with his shin pads."

[baxus]

I didn't even know he retired, let alone that he became a manager.

[polishgenius]

2 hours ago, baxus said:

I didn't even know he retired, let alone that he became a manager.

He was there as a player-coach initially, so he only retired from playing when the previous manager got fired and he took over. 

[Consigliere]

Whoever decided to appoint Deeney as manager in the first place must be an absolute moron. Deeney has always comes across as a loud-mouthed, obnoxious knob and hearing some of his so called 'punditry' had me convinced that he has no tactical nous whatsoever and now we know that he doesn't have any man management skills either.

This interview right here probably closes the door on any hopes he may have had of a managerial career.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0h4wjbz

Edited January 19 by Consigliere

[Mexal]

Good win for GD. Need Rice and Gabriel to be ok.