The Legend Begins...

[MinDonner]

Nah, she was already pregnant at the beginning of SotF (with the Chimes) - her magic amulet stopped working when she had a) said the magic words and b) married Dick; presumably b preceded the whole nasty blood-licking incident, not sure about a cos I haven't read TotW. The pregnancy lasted for most of SotF (until she got beaten up) and then the whole Dick's Demon Child storyline was forgotten, never to be seen again.

[jousha]

[quote name='MinDonner' post='1596400' date='Nov 21 2008, 10.06']then the whole Dick's Demon Child storyline was forgotten, never to be seen again.[/quote]


Actually it pops up under a different light in Phantom iirc (or Confessor *shrug*). Either Richard or Nicci has some long inner-dialogue that touches on how the birth of the "Demon Child" (I'm not sure the actual quote) was in fact the "birth" of the Imperial Order invading the Midlands. For example, if they didn't have sex, the Imperial Order wouldn't have been able to invade the north.

So, the reflection was that it wasn't a physically born "Demon Child" but rather a metaphorically born "Demon Child." Supposedly, it goes along with all the other misunderstood prophecies. Richard's freedom was pushed by prophecy all in effect to serve the plot.

Not defending it, though, since I thought it was funny to be brought up later on as a "Oh hey, and this prophecy MAY HAVE come true, but not how we expected ... but onto fighting for freedom."

[MinDonner]

:rofl:

Retconning FTW!!

[Myshkin]

[quote name='jousha' post='1596459' date='Nov 21 2008, 08.43']Actually it pops up under a different light in Phantom iirc (or Confessor *shrug*). Either Richard or Nicci has some long inner-dialogue that touches on how the birth of the "Demon Child" (I'm not sure the actual quote) was in fact the "birth" of the Imperial Order invading the Midlands. For example, if they didn't have sex, the Imperial Order wouldn't have been able to invade the north.

So, the reflection was that it wasn't a physically born "Demon Child" but rather a metaphorically born "Demon Child." Supposedly, it goes along with all the other misunderstood prophecies. Richard's freedom was pushed by prophecy all in effect to serve the plot.

Not defending it, though, since I thought it was funny to be brought up later on as a "Oh hey, and this prophecy MAY HAVE come true, but not how we expected ... but onto fighting for freedom."[/quote]
:stunned: . What?!? I thought Tairy reached the peak of douche-bagery and stupidity with FotF. I was wrong.

[Moosicus]

[quote name='jousha' post='1596459' date='Nov 21 2008, 12.43']Actually it pops up under a different light in Phantom iirc (or Confessor *shrug*). Either Richard or Nicci has some long inner-dialogue that touches on how the birth of the "Demon Child" (I'm not sure the actual quote) was in fact the "birth" of the Imperial Order invading the Midlands. For example, if they didn't have sex, the Imperial Order wouldn't have been able to invade the north.

So, the reflection was that it wasn't a physically born "Demon Child" but rather a metaphorically born "Demon Child." Supposedly, it goes along with all the other misunderstood prophecies. Richard's freedom was pushed by prophecy all in effect to serve the plot.

Not defending it, though, since I thought it was funny to be brought up later on as a "Oh hey, and this prophecy MAY HAVE come true, but not how we expected ... but onto fighting for freedom."[/quote]
Either you've read the series far more deeply than I have (which makes you some kind of masochist or degenerate) or I'm just kind of thick (unlikely, genius that I am), but I'd be interested in the citations to back up this shit.


on a different note, I've been constantly puzzled by the reaction of Yeardites to the great abortion called "the Legend of the Seeker". I've checked out their reactions and it seems so universally positive. Still, even though the show is awful on its own merits and bears hardly any relation to the books. Still they marvel and swoon at its awesomeness. Is it a case of denial? That they are so desperate to want a great show based on their hero's books that they will rave about anything? Or do they have such low taste that they are actually entertained, thrilled, and stunned by the "suspense"?

I wish to ask one question, if aSoIaF was being made and Ran (of all people) had said this:

"Watch with the "objetcive" eye. It will not be the book, it will not be close. Watch as if you had never read A Song of Ice and Fire..."

Would you really want to watch? And could it possibly live up to your expectations?

Quite frankly, wouldn't you just wish that it had never gone to the screen at all?

[Shryke]

[quote name='jousha' post='1596459' date='Nov 21 2008, 11.43']Actually it pops up under a different light in Phantom iirc (or Confessor *shrug*). Either Richard or Nicci has some long inner-dialogue that touches on how the birth of the "Demon Child" (I'm not sure the actual quote) was in fact the "birth" of the Imperial Order invading the Midlands. For example, if they didn't have sex, the Imperial Order wouldn't have been able to invade the north.

So, the reflection was that it wasn't a physically born "Demon Child" but rather a metaphorically born "Demon Child." Supposedly, it goes along with all the other misunderstood prophecies. Richard's freedom was pushed by prophecy all in effect to serve the plot.

Not defending it, though, since I thought it was funny to be brought up later on as a "Oh hey, and this prophecy MAY HAVE come true, but not how we expected ... but onto fighting for freedom."[/quote]

Wow. And that was one of his few cool ideas from the start of the series.

[greenMockingbird]

[quote name='Moosicus' post='1597156' date='Nov 21 2008, 21.41']Either you've read the series far more deeply than I have (which makes you some kind of masochist or degenerate) or I'm just kind of thick (unlikely, genius that I am), but I'd be interested in the citations to back up this shit.[/quote]

I also remember this part. This was in... Phantom, I think, after Shota sends Richard a nice little nightmare, Richard has the demon child idea.

It's as good an interpretation as any, Shota's prophecy and the question of Dick and Klan's future brood being one of the several inconvenient plot-lines that got quietly dropped at the end of Confessor.

[jousha]

I don't have the book on hand since I listened to it on the library's audio book, but yeah, it was Phantom.

To further clarify, the idea was only mentioned that single moment as part of Richard's long inner dialogue. A lot of it was "What if [blah blah blah]? What if [etc. etc.]? What if the Imperial Order was born from our doomed intimacy? [etc. etc.]" Not exact quotes since I don't have the book, but I do remember that bit making me go "huh."

True, Goodkind may not be saying the one "born" of Richard and Kahlan's consummation [i]was[/i] the Imperial Order, and instead he just had Richard go over his "what if's" as a sign of despair and self-doubt. If that is so, Goodkind should've edited that specific bit out as it only makes us think "Huh? Oh, what [i]if[/i] that is what the prophecy was about?" and distracts our attention from the current plot.

*shrug* I didn't have too much of a problem with it, though. Now, the speech given to the troops in Phantom ... Zzzzz.

[Jaxom 1974]

[quote name='Moosicus' post='1597156' date='Nov 21 2008, 23.41']I wish to ask one question, if aSoIaF was being made and Ran (of all people) had said this:

"Watch with the "objetcive" eye. It will not be the book, it will not be close. Watch as if you had never read A Song of Ice and Fire..."

Would you really want to watch? And could it possibly live up to your expectations?

Quite frankly, wouldn't you just wish that it had never gone to the screen at all?[/quote]

If, as in your example, Ran had been the one saying this about the ASOIAF series, especially after he'd supposedly spent months helping "consult" on the show I know I for one would be calling him out on it.

[Ran]

I hope everyone watches GAME OF THRONES with an "objective" eye. It won't be the book, not even close. Watch as if you had never read A Song of Ice and Fire. ..

Watch it as if you'd read The Sword of Truth series, and wanted to erase the memory of that horror with something, you know, very good, instead. ;)

[Aemon Stark]

I watched the first half of this show last night. It has all the elements of Hercules/Xena - Kiwi actors trying in vain to fake a vaguely American accent, low production values, cheesiness... but none of the humour. Everything is heavy, slow-going, self-serious, and BORING. The characters are utterly forgettable, uncharismatic, and simplistic. And "Darken Rahl" sounds like an even stupider villain name when you hear it.

[The Mance]

[quote name='Moosicus' post='1597156' date='Nov 21 2008, 20.41']on a different note, I've been constantly puzzled by the reaction of Yeardites to the great abortion called "the Legend of the Seeker". I've checked out their reactions and it seems so universally positive. Still, even though the show is awful on its own merits and bears hardly any relation to the books. Still they marvel and swoon at its awesomeness. Is it a case of denial? That they are so desperate to want a great show based on their hero's books that they will rave about anything? Or do they have such low taste that they are actually entertained, thrilled, and stunned by the "suspense"?[/quote]


I'm waiting for some sort of public opinion from Tairy himself. I cant imagine that he doesn't hate what they've done to his books, so he must be somehow contractually bound to endorse the show, or at least not say anything bad about it.

My dream is that he'll remain silent about the show for a good while. Long enough for the Yeardites to effuse themselves a nice big hole. Such that when Tairy finally cant stay silent any longer and denounces the show for the simplistic parody that it is, we'll get to see them all falling over themselves to recant their original simpering, fawnish drivel.





edited for to be more clarity

[Watcher]

[quote name='Aemon Stark' post='1598078' date='Nov 23 2008, 08.08']I watched the first half of this show last night. It has all the elements of Hercules/Xena - Kiwi actors trying in vain to fake a vaguely American accent, low production values, cheesiness... but none of the humour. Everything is heavy, slow-going, self-serious, and BORING. The characters are utterly forgettable, uncharismatic, and simplistic. And "Darken Rahl" sounds like an even stupider villain name when you hear it.[/quote]


Exactly I watched the episode with the mind reading kid last night. I was thinking it was much darker then Hercules/Xena. That those shows never took themselves serious is what made them enjoyable.

[greenMockingbird]

Watched it. More of the same, not much new, except that they've re-worked Kahlan's backstory to make the Confessors a little less... freaky. (That is, her father was still enslaved, but the writers turned him into a jerk, so you're not supposed to care.)
Also, first bondage subtext, and Richard threatening to 'roast' someone, and Zedd... playing with a captured guy, setting him free and catching him with magic, and finally turning the guy's head into a crow right as he gets beheaded.

I think I missed a bit, there.

It's gems like these that keep me going with this.

[The Wolf Maid]

[quote name='greenMockingbird' post='1598266' date='Nov 24 2008, 05.13']Also, first bondage subtext, and Richard threatening to 'roast' someone, and Zedd... playing with a captured guy, setting him free and catching him with magic, and finally turning the guy's head into a crow right as he gets beheaded.[/quote]
I'm curious, what is this bondage subtext in the story?

[MinDonner]

These episode reports are becoming rather thin on the ground. Could it be that even the Lemmings have had enough death-choosing for one series? Everyone's rising up and living their lives instead of watching this shite, it brings a melon-sized tear to my sky-blue eye.

[Rimmer]

I watched the first few, but then completely lost the willpower - it's just so... boring. I can't get into these problem-of-the-week shows. If they made any effort to follow the books it'd be an improvement, because as hilariously bad as the books get, at least there's an overall story in there.

[Paddy]

[quote name='Moosicus' post='1597156' date='Nov 22 2008, 04.41']I wish to ask one question, if aSoIaF was being made and Ran (of all people) had said this:

"Watch with the "objetcive" eye. It will not be the book, it will not be close. Watch as if you had never read A Song of Ice and Fire..."[/quote]
If Ran said that, I'd wonder what the hell happened to his grammatical abilities.
Even when he was parodying it, his grammar was better than that.

[Nichole]

So, I was thinking that the first few episodes are so different from the books to make people think this is just typical fantasy. Then, over time, they gradually add in more bondage, torture, child kicking and menstrual blood slurping. Then, people will realize that really, LoS is about important human themes and will choose life. I'm pretty sure it was mentioned that a bondage subtext has been added, so this is just the beginning.

[greenMockingbird]

[quote name='The Wolf Maid' post='1599687' date='Nov 25 2008, 01.20']I'm curious, what is this bondage subtext in the story?[/quote]

I didn't watch the entire episode, but they rescue this kid who can read people's minds, but he's an uncooperative little snot who tries to blackmail Richard and Kahlan with their feelings for each other. At one point, Richard gets fed up with it and tries to tie the kid up. I didn't catch how that worked out but apparently Kahlan objected, because a little while later the kid has no ropes on.

Later, we get a little of Kahlan's new backstory, where her father (probably not King Wyborn anymore) was freed from her mother's control after the mother's death, found Kahlan and her sister and forced them to use their powers on his behalf. When they refused, he tied them up with rope and did nasty things to them.

It's possible that I'm only seeing subtext because I'm a little vague on the details, but as this is the spawn of SOT, I think it's justified.


Yeah, whoever did the minute-by minute reports has apparently stopped. I don't usually see the full episode, so I just post the highlights.