delete this account pls Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 [quote name='Seventh Pup' post='1740991' date='Apr 1 2009, 21.08']I don't think setting conditions is a bad thing. Realistically knowing yourself; what your limits, wants, and expectations are out of a romantic relationship, is not a bad thing. That usually mean excluding some people from your dating pool, and being excluded from someone's dating pool, neither of which are bad things. After all you don’t just want to be with somebody to stave off loneliness; it is way to easy to be lonely inside a relationship as well.[/quote] I definitely agree with the last thing you said. I guess to clarify my position a bit more - I don't like to rule anything out completely. A lot of people don't want to have kids ... until they do. I've seen it happen in a number of different ways amongst my larger group of friends, most of whom are now married and have kids. It's entirely possible to date a single parent without making an immediate commitment to their children. A person's opinions on children might change during that time, or they might not - either way I don't see that as a reason to deny the opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dornish prince Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 [quote name='Kalbear' post='1741466' date='Apr 1 2009, 14.23']Wow.[/quote] i have to second this. and if you're serious, are you a vulcan or an anasurimbor perhaps? i actually feel sad having read that. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anatole Kuragin Posted April 2, 2009 Author Share Posted April 2, 2009 [quote name='Jacen' post='1741458' date='Apr 1 2009, 13.20']Anatole, you devious bastard... :rofl:[/quote] I'm here all week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Lucan Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 [quote name='Shryke' post='1740906' date='Apr 1 2009, 02.13']And some people want the baby, not the grown up kid. Babies are adorable, after all. It's their survival mechanism.[/quote] I've always loved kids, and when I had my son, I've loved them 10x more than I did. I think most children are great, and babies in particular are adorable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Oop North Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 I bet Anatole's pregnant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seventh Pup Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 [quote name='thebadlady' post='1741624' date='Apr 1 2009, 17.51']A child is a child no matter where it comes from. I am assuming you mean he uses a surragate then brings home a newborn for me to co-care for? If he needs to have 'his own' child that badly, he isn't the man for me. Any pre-existing children would be loved and welcomed of course.[/quote] Would you date a father with very young children and primary custody? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thebadlady Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 [quote name='Seventh Pup' post='1741663' date='Apr 1 2009, 20.14']Would you date a father with very young children and primary custody?[/quote] Oh my yes!! Its not just that I don't want to have any more of my own children, I physically cannot and should not. I got my tubes tied because I almost died the last time I was pregnant (she is so worth it!). The man would have to match Rina's list of what a stepfather must be, of course. The only caveat would be the situation - I know everyone is different, etc but...I was a single mom with an infant because of a really wretched situation. I am single for many reasons, but key is that I don't think anyone should have to date such a crazy person AND because with a few exceptions, my choices in mates have been really really bad. If someone was in the same situation I was in, I would question their judgement and sanity. Crazy dumbass is NOT on the stepfather list. (Though I was later told that some of the items are negotiable - he doesn't *have* to have kids, but he has to like them and he has to like pets even if he doesn't have any of those either.) I am really really bad about getting my kids everything they want (we grew up poor, i teach them to care for their belongings, etc) but a stepfather may be a bit too much. :lol: Brady, I think it would be a horrible insanity and a warning signal if a single parent involved a potential mate in a new relationship with the kids right off. One, judgement. Two, the poor kid! Three, issues - crazy crazy issues. Edt: Now that I hit post, I know what my blathering was getting to. Even if I could have more children, I wouldn't. I'd welcome a man who has children generally. Specifically, he has to be the RIGHT man. If he were The One, he could come with triplet newborns and I would love him still (and the babies!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centrist Simon Steele Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 I guess ultimately, despite all the arguments presented, I don't understand why you would rule out a serious long term contender in the relationship world if they had a kid. I mean if you're just dating around, having a good time, fine I get that, but if you're looking for something more serious I don't see how a kid should hurt that. But that's just me. I love kids like the Badlady. On the days I have trouble getting out of bed because of certain situations going on with my own son, the thing that gets me to work is seeing the kids. I love talking with them, teaching, interacting--everything. I'm gonna miss the hell out of the 8th graders leaving in May. I like kids at all ages. I hate the stigma they get from adults as "things to be avoided." It's bullshit. It's the reason we all grow up to be pricks. Because something about them being children makes them unworthy of attention. All I know is when my son was sick and I missed a number of days from school while staying at the bedside in the hospital, when I came back there was a stack of get well/thinking of you cards from my students. They got together and did it on their own. They showed true caring, something some of my closest friends weren't able to do. I love babies too. This idea that men only want older children seems strange too. I'd never been around kids before my son, and the first five months of his life I was still deployed overseas. So when I came home he was pretty established with people other than me. I took over full time parenting that first day back, and we were bonded almost instantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brook Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 [quote name='Simon of Steele' post='1741797' date='Apr 2 2009, 14.27']I love babies too. This idea that men only want older children seems strange too. I'd never been around kids before my son, and the first five months of his life I was still deployed overseas. So when I came home he was pretty established with people other than me. I took over full time parenting that first day back, and we were bonded almost instantly.[/quote] My husband is the baby person in our relationship. I've said before that although I adore my children as babies I don't begin to really enjoy them until they hit about 2 years old. Once they can talk to me and their personalities are established they become balls of fun but up until the point he's one thats more likely to actually enjoy doing things for them than I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 I think that's a good point as well. You can draw up your list of rules that you won't date someone with kids or whatever, and then you meet someone who is literally perfect for you and they do have kids, so you have to end up compromising or potentially missing out on a great relationship. [quote]For those who think it is absolutely necessary to get along or have some sort of relationship with step kids to have a good marriage: totally untrue.[/quote] I agree with that, [i]but[/i][b] [/b]I think it is totally true that you need to have a good relationship with your partner's child or children if they are living in the same house. I mean, surely that goes without saying? If the child doesn't want anything to do with you that's one thing, but I think as the adult coming into the situation you either do have to make an effort or not bother in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiko Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Chats, TB, I was more thinking along the line that he might get a child with another woman. (Not behind your back, of course). If you don't want a child, it might be a fair compromise if the other woman is okay with it and the father can spend enough time and money with his new kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seventh Pup Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 [quote]I guess ultimately, despite all the arguments presented, I don't understand why you would rule out a serious long term contender in the relationship world if they had a kid. I mean if you're just dating around, having a good time, fine I get that, but if you're looking for something more serious I don't see how a kid should hurt that.[/quote] Well I can only speak for myself but to highlight all of the reasons I can think of off the top of my head… One, you will never ever be number one to your partner. Now personally, my personal relationships (not necessarily romantic) are the most important thing to me, this isn’t the case with everybody nor should it be. For some people its career, or religion etc. Knowing this about myself I also know that my romantic partner will slowly start to become an important part of my life, and should I ever get married the most important relationship in my life. If you’re looking at a long term prospect that has children (assuming you do not, and you are like me) you know there will be an uneven power dynamic. Where in they will be more important to you then you are to them. Their child/ren will probably hold the number one spot, just as they should. Nor would I want to take the number one place from a child. If you’re happy to play second fiddle in a relationship this isn’t a problem. I’ve done this before in relationships (where someone’s career played first) I know I am not at my happiest in that position. Then there is the fact I come from a blended family that I love. I have wonderful step parents, step sibling, half siblings, step grandparents etc… Yet I also know the stress that goes with that. The size and complexity of my family is breath taking. While I love all of them and am happy that each an every one is in my family that is not a road I would choose to go down. (Just like growing up in a religious house ensures I won’t date anyone religious) Now if I get married have children, my marriage falls apart and I’m half a blended family already I’d go with it. But being single (well never married at least), and childless I have the luxury of being able to side step that. Not to mention the fact that many single parent’s don’t actively want more children. I want to be with someone who [b]wants[/b] to have children with me. Not someone I have to convince, not someone how is ho-hum about it, but someone who wants children with me. That being said; I don’t children right now. (Which is another strike against someone already with children). Now obviously not everyone feels the way I do. Some of these issues probably don’t seem major issues to some people; but to me they are. Hope this can make some us women who don’t want jump at the chance to date a single dad more understandable. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 [quote name='Seventh Pup' post='1741933' date='Apr 2 2009, 09.25']Well I can only speak for myself but to highlight all of the reasons I can think of off the top of my head… One, you will never ever be number one to your partner.[/quote] I don't know if you've thought through the implications of this statement. The idea that there is this kind of zero-sum game going on in people's lives inevitably suggests that couples with children don't love each other (or at least don't have the same quality of relationship) as childless couples do. That probably sounds like a very harsh misinterpretation of your position, but consider: you're saying that someone with kids will always put them first and not their partner. There's no suggestion that this would be any different if the other parent is the one you're married to. If the relationship a person could have with a single parent must be flawed or handicapped by the presence of children, therefore, the relationship of couples with children must be too. I think your whole premise is wrong, of course. I'm sure you wouldn't suggest that because I have two children, I have to prioritise one of them over the other, and so one of them will 'never ever be number one' to me? And as long as that is true, there's no reason why the same couldn't apply to a prospective partner, given the time necessary for the relationship to reach that level. Love isn't finite. And priorities are not inflexible, but situational. Where you're right is that, as a single parent, it will be the case that [i]at first[/i] a prospective partner will not be number one in my life in the way they might have been when I was 22 and childless. So that's fair enough: as a single parent I do have priorities that might get in the way of a developing relationship. As I say, though, there are such hurdles in many relationships. You're also probably right in that younger children especially will more often be in situations where they're a priority. That goes with the territory. But I don't think it's fair to say that a single parent will 'never ever' make their partner 'number one', or always play 'second fiddle'. If I thought that was true, I would just stop dating. I can't imagine embarking on that kind of a relationship any more than you. (Obviously, I understand your statements are your point of view, and I'm not saying they're completely wrong. I also don't have any problem with the rest of what you said. :)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord O' Bones Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 [quote name='Seventh Pup' post='1741933' date='Apr 2 2009, 01.25']Well I can only speak for myself but to highlight all of the reasons I can think of off the top of my head…[/quote] High five to this post. Yet... [quote name='mormont' post='1741945' date='Apr 2 2009, 02.13']I don't know if you've thought through the implications of this statement.[/quote] That about sums me up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seventh Pup Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 [quote]I don't know if you've thought through the implications of this statement. The idea that there is this kind of zero-sum game going on in people's lives inevitably suggests that couples with children don't love each other (or at least don't have the same quality of relationship) as childless couples do.[/quote] Are you saying having children does not change your relationship with your partner? Doesn't change your priorities? I'm sure it makes you grow closer in many respects. But it also shifts the relationship, not necessarily for the bad. I do think childless couples have a different relationship then couples with children. Not that one of them is better or worse, just different. [quote]I think your whole premise is wrong, of course. I'm sure you wouldn't suggest that because I have two children, I have to priorities one of them over the other, and so one of them will 'never ever be number one' to me? And as long as that is true, there's no reason why the same couldn't apply to a prospective partner, given the time necessary for the relationship to reach that level. Love isn't finite. And priorities are not inflexible, but situational.[/quote] No, but notice I didn't say love. I said priority; there is a difference. [quote]Where you're right is that, as a single parent, it will be the case that [i]at first[/i] a prospective partner will not be number one in my life in the way they might have been when I was 22 and childless. [b]So that's fair enough: as a single parent I do have priorities that might get in the way of a developing relationship.[/b] As I say, though, there are such hurdles in many relationships. You're also probably right in that younger children especially will more often be in situations where they're a priority. That goes with the territory. But I don't think it's fair to say that a single parent will 'never ever' make their partner 'number one', or always play 'second fiddle'. If I thought that was true, I would just stop dating. I can't imagine embarking on that kind of a relationship any more than you.[/quote] In certain situation your partner might take preference but over the long haul that is going to your kids*, at least until you have grandkids. :P Honestly is there ever going to be anything more important to you then your children? Second fiddle does not mean in every single situation, just over a whole. Also look at the bolded statement. This is what doesn't work for me, myself and I. *At least until your children are grown, and established independantly the world. [quote](Obviously, I understand your statements are your point of view, and I'm not saying they're completely wrong. I also don't have any problem with the rest of what you said. :))[/quote] Well I know my statements are not wrong for myself, and that is all that matters. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenalpia Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 When it comes to relationships it's the person that you fall for. Whatever there might be about them that wouldn't have been on a list of 'perfect partner' credentials has to be dealt with and talked through but ultimately if that person is the person for you everything is manageable. Dismissing someone because they have children is just another way of saying I don't want 'you' enough to find a way through this. Which is fair enough - and in a way it's good that there's something there that forces you to really think about how much you really feel about someone early on because at some point in any relationship there will be something that tests you, that makes you really delve deep into yourself and decide whether life with this person is worth the struggle or that life would just be easier without them and their children / erratic work life / religious beliefs / crazy mother / etc. I think that the only person I ever met who didn't seem to have any of the things off the list was my ex, sometimes it's the things that aren't so perfect that make a relationship worth fighting for :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 [quote name='Seventh Pup' post='1741967' date='Apr 2 2009, 11.26']Are you saying having children does not change your relationship with your partner? Doesn't change your priorities?[/quote] It changes your whole life, of course. But does it mean that your partner is now doomed to playing 'second fiddle'[i],[/i] all the time? Not in my experience, no. You both have someone else to love, and new priorities. But it's not true to say that your partner will 'never, ever' be number one, particularly not as the child gets older. In fact, I consider it very important for couples with kids to make time for each other, to show their partner that you're still willing to make them a priority and not let that 'second fiddle' scenario develop. [quote]I do think childless couples have a different relationship then couples with children. Not that one of them is better or worse, just different.[/quote] Okay, but the way you put it above was that you would 'never, ever be number one'. I'd suggest that to a lot of people, that does sound like a 'worse' relationship. [quote]In certain situation your partner might take preference but over the long haul that is going to your kids, at least until you have grandkids. :P Honestly is there ever going to be anything more important to you then your children? Second fiddle does not mean in every single situation, just over a whole.[/quote] More important? Probably not. [u]As[/u] important, though? Why not? [quote]Also look at the bolded statement. This is what doesn't work for me, myself and I.[/quote] [quote]Well I know my statements are not wrong for myself, and that is all that matters. :)[/quote] Yeah, I understand that and it's fair enough. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seventh Pup Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 [quote name='mormont' post='1741986' date='Apr 2 2009, 04.06']It changes your whole life, of course. But does it mean that your partner is now doomed to playing 'second fiddle'[i],[/i] all the time? Not in my experience, no. You both have someone else to love, and new priorities. But it's not true to say that your partner will 'never, ever' be number one, particularly not as the child gets older. In fact, I consider it very important for couples with kids to make time for each other, to show their partner that you're still willing to make them a priority and not let that 'second fiddle' scenario develop.[/quote] Honestly I did not mean all the time, in every situation. 'Never, ever' was a bit hyperbolic, I apologize if that offended. It's hard to explain... Look I'm 26, I have a good job, a good boyfriend, and am generally very independent. But I'll always be my papa's little girl; the bond that children have with their parents bends and changes over time but I think it's one of the strongest there is. I'm still very close with all of my parents (including my step parents). What I meant by never ever, is that a bond a parent has with their child (hopefully) never, ever goes away. If that makes sense... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 [quote name='Seventh Pup' post='1742002' date='Apr 2 2009, 12.35']Honestly I did not mean all the time, in every situation. 'Never, ever' was a bit hyperbolic, I apologize if that offended.[/quote] Oh, that's OK. I rarely get actually [i]offended[/i], and certainly not by this - it wasn't said rudely or anything. I just felt that I disagreed. :) [quote]It's hard to explain... Look I'm 26, I have a good job, a good boyfriend, and am generally very independent. But I'll always be my papa's little girl; the bond that children have with their parents bends and changes over time but I think it's one of the strongest there is. I'm still very close with all of my parents (including my step parents). What I meant by never ever, is that a bond a parent has with their child (hopefully) never, ever goes away. If that makes sense...[/quote] It does make sense, and I don't think it does ever go away. I hope not anyway. :) But it certainly doesn't preclude other, different bonds developing, nor does it relegate them to a second-class status. I think that was my point. Like I say, if I felt that was all I could offer someone, I wouldn't be dating at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seventh Pup Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 [quote name='mormont' post='1742031' date='Apr 2 2009, 05.17']It does make sense, and I don't think it does ever go away. I hope not anyway. :) But it certainly doesn't preclude other, different bonds developing, nor does it relegate them to a second-class status. I think that was my point. Like I say, if I felt that was all I could offer someone, I wouldn't be dating at all.[/quote] Both of my parents have happy marriages with my step parents. There is defiantly a love life possible post divorce post children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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