Ser Scot A Ellison Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 FLOW,You're right. Any penalty less that "death" will seem to cheapen the offense. It's all or nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I could see them doing the death penalty, or I could see them doing nothing on the grounds that it is more appropriate for the legal system to address this. Either is defensible, but I don't know that it is defensible to do anything in the middle.Agreed. They can't make this seem remotely comparable to a recruiting violation or under-the-table payments or whatever. They need to either stand back and say "This has nothing to do with football" and let the legal system take its course, or they need to say "This was a completely unacceptable 'lack of institutional control' and we're shutting down your program for x years". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonius Pius Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 ....or they need to say "This was a completely unacceptable 'lack of institutional control' and we're shutting down your program for x years".As what happened at PSU was so obviously in favour of the football team (and the football team was all that mattered to the ones in power), I'm going with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Given the attention the NCAA has placed on this case can they do nothing at this point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Given the attention the NCAA has placed on this case can they do nothing at this point?I think if the next few weeks some large settlements with various victims were announced and Penn State took down that stupid fucking statue and showed they were doing stuff like organizing mandatory courses for faculty and staff on warning signs of sexual abuse that the NCAA might do nothing. But since it look like the Board of Trustees still wants to just sweep this under the rug, I think it makes NCAA action much more likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I think they don't know what to do. Against what standard do you evaluate it? "14 sexual assaults on children -- that'll cost 15 scholarships in year one, and 10 in year two. Oh, and no bowls for two years. Maybe three.They can't do it that way, but they don't have to. The problem as far as the NCAA is concerned is lack of institutional control and failure to monitor - both of which have precedent.As to the NCAA letting others go and punish, I don't think that works; the NCAA needs to show that no matter what else happens they will not accept this kind of behavior from their AD/coaches and that, as Emmert said, it's much more than a football issue but it is a football issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Lord of Winterfell Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 They can't do it that way, but they don't have to. The problem as far as the NCAA is concerned is lack of institutional control and failure to monitor - both of which have precedent.Right, but those are derivative offenses that generally are predicated on the severity of the underlying offenses. How does raping a bunch of children compare to getting tattoos, or passing money to recruits? It's like two different universes. The last "death penalty" was SMU, and that was for having a slush fund for 15 years that passed money to players. In what universe is raping children not worse than that?As to the NCAA letting others go and punish, I don't think that works; the NCAA needs to show that no matter what else happens they will not accept this kind of behavior from their AD/coaches and that, as Emmert said, it's much more than a football issue but it is a football issue. Well, we disagree on that. The NCAA must be the enforcing activity when the underlying actions aren't criminal, else the perpetrators go free. When there are other criminal and civil penalties imposed on offenders and the school -- penalties that are legally designed to inflict the appropriate level of punishment, the need for the NCAA to do something as well is lessened.In that regard, it should be pointed out that the plaintiffs in that case will be seeking (and likely will get) punitive damages judged by a jury and courts to be sufficient to deter such activity in the future. Those could be monstrously huge, so the idea that PSU won't "get the message" unless the NCAA does something seems flawed to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Right, but those are derivative offenses that generally are predicated on the severity of the underlying offenses. How does raping a bunch of children compare to getting tattoos, or passing money to recruits? It's like two different universes. The last "death penalty" was SMU, and that was for having a slush fund for 15 years that passed money to players. In what universe is raping children not worse than that?Again, as far as the NCAA is concerned the violators are Paterno and the various other folks that covered things up. Those are far more concerning to the NCAA than the actual crime. The actual crime is a big deal, but they're willing to accept that some people are evil fucks; what they're not going to accept (and what a lot of the outrage is in the sports world) is people covering up other sick fucks for the sake of the football program. I agree that the only penalty that remotely makes sense is the death penalty as far as values go, but I've been arguing for the death penalty since it was first announced.Well, we disagree on that. The NCAA must be the enforcing activity when the underlying actions aren't criminal, else the perpetrators go free. When there are other criminal and civil penalties imposed on offenders and the school -- penalties that are legally designed to inflict the appropriate level of punishment, the need for the NCAA to do something as well is lessened.That's fair. At the same time the NCAA likely doesn't want to look toothless here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kairparavel Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2012/07/plane_flying_around_penn_state.html#717sfA small plane is flying around the perimeter of the Penn State University campus in State College displaying a banner: "Take the statue down or we will," according to a PSU employee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S John Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 http://www.pennlive....tate.html#717sfYou should read the comments. Many of those morons still don't get it:This penn State Haters are becoming hateful Terrorists. I sure hope the football team is guarding over that statue like its the Holy Grail. No of them losers who talk a big game will rip down Penn States Savior when a 300 pd lineman standing guard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kairparavel Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 You should read the comments. Many of those morons still don't get it:I read the comments.I appreciate the one that wanted to move it to the campus art gallery or fine art museum.Taking away his statue doesn't change history, good and bad and hiding it away or destroying it just keeps the cycle going.But having it out there like a shrine now, ain't right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S John Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I read the comments.I appreciate the one that wanted to move it to the campus art gallery or fine art museum.Taking away his statue doesn't change history, good and bad and hiding it away or destroying it just keeps the cycle going.But having it out there like a shrine now, ain't right.Yea, I thought that was an acceptable compromise as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronn Stone Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 The statue was moved to storage today. They aren't destroying it, but will let some time for reflection and healing pass.Line of the Century by comedian Albert Brooks. "Penn State should keep the statue, but have it look the other way". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 The NCAA is also going to rule on it Monday morning. The ruling is supposedly 'unprecedented', whatever that means.My guess is that they're going to stay away from things like bowl bans and scholarship reductions and instead have major restrictions on the coaching and AD positions, possibly with auditing and possibly with control over who they hire. essentially any coach that coaches at Penn State automatically gets a 'show cause' attribute to them, which the NCAA does have the power to do. But this is speculation; have no specific knowledge about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howdyphillip Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 They tore down the statue of Paterno today at Penn State. Why they have left it up this long, i can't even begin to understand. Tomorrow, the NCAA will be handing down what they call unprecedented sanctions... We will see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reposado Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 drifting back towards the title, what we're forgetting is that after ignoring the penn st controversy into they absolutely couldn't, espn and some of their staff in particular tried to make up for by manufacturing a scandal at syracuse, hoping to be the first ones on this non-story and ruining a man who was probably guilty of nothing more than a bi-sexual affair with a man in his 20s.not that this part of the story is as significant as what sandusky did, but it's absurdly bad journalism and its being swept under the rug pretty easily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S John Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 They tore down the statue of Paterno today at Penn State. Why they have left it up this long, i can't even begin to understand. Tomorrow, the NCAA will be handing down what they call unprecedented sanctions... We will see.My understanding is that the 'unprecedented' part comes from the fact that they bypassed the typical process for handing down punishments. I read an article on ESPN today that seemed to suggest that- and also that 'death penalty' type punishments are off the table. I think we'll probably see a bowl ban of x number of years, a loss of (some) scholarships, an avenue allowing current players to transfer without penalty, and some fines. I've also heard a TV ban is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davos55 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 9 Am tomorrow we will know what the "unprecedented sanctions" are.I am a Penn State student..this is obviously a very, very sad time for the school.At least I moved from Main Campus to a branch campus in order to focus better on classes..that decision looks like it will have even more of an impact this next year.If they do give the death penalty (which I still don't think they will)..it will cripple not only Penn State, but will also crush State College in many ways. Football season is when the town makes basically all of their income in a lot of ways..and the effects of no football will be far reaching and devastating.That said, the NCAA is going to do something..I am sticking with my prediction of no bowl games for 5 seasons..but I am sure there will me more than that. We will see... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywolf2375 Posted July 23, 2012 Author Share Posted July 23, 2012 If they do give the death penalty (which I still don't think they will)..it will cripple not only Penn State, but will also crush State College in many ways. Football season is when the town makes basically all of their income in a lot of ways..and the effects of no football will be far reaching and devastating.I've seen the collateral damage argument and still think the school should get the death penalty. Simple solution...the school is responsible for the loss in revenue for the same period as the death penalty is in effect. The fact that the area is so reliant on one team playing the game is only more evidence that the entire scenario is out of balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 I still wonder how the NCAA can give anything less than the "Death Penalty" without cheapening what happened to these boys? "Pay your players under the table we"ll shut you down... cover up child molestation for more that a decade... that you lose bowl games and scholarships". I can't be the only one perceving the sactions they will impose this way, am I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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