[Book Spoilers] EP201 Discussion

[teemo]

I... what... your friends/family burst out laughing at the massacre of children, including the murder of an infant? I'm sorry but this says more about you than the creators of the show...

I think they were referring to the bouncing up and down sex marathon thing.

[Morrigan]

Oh, did he? Sorry if I misunderstood, yes. I did roll my eyes at that scene too, but at least this time it was mercifully brief.

[waaimasjien]

I thought this was a great episode. The killing of the bastards took me entirely by surprise, but damn what a great scene was that. I don't see why so many people are crying over the brothel scene. For one thing, Ros is obviously replacing Alyaya and thus needed to be introduced as running the brothel. The scene also served as a transition to the bastard killing, and on top of that, the almost comical sex scene made such a shrill contrast with the following scene that the latter was even more shocking.

I don't have any big problems with any scene, including the LF/ Cersei scene. I consider the TV series to be standing on it's own, and if TV Littlefinger isn't book Littlefinger that's fine with me, 'cause the writers will probably make it work in the end.

Loved the CG animals, especially loved the extreme long shots of the north, the Red Waste, and Robb's camp. I also really liked Stephen Dillane as Stannis, he's really making the stubborn thing work.

[DragonAge93]

Great episode from start to finish! Loved the Robb/Jaime scene, Nicolaj played it so well looking frightened even though there was nothing there whilst filming it. Definitely a "deleted scene" from the book IMO. Love the little tidbit we get of Jon Snow's journey beyond the Wall. Hopefully we get to see a White Walker next week when he "sees something". Can't wait for his climatic scenes at the end of the season, though.

But my favorite scene has to undoubtedly be the bastard-killing. It's so cruel, and yet so powerful as well, what with the music and how Cersei (or is it Joffrey) have no mercy for these bastards. I hope they stick with the novel and make it Cersei who ordered the killing, and it somewhat seems like they are, since Joffrey brings up the matter, and Cersei must be ashamed of this stain and wants to cleanse it. And what at tease, that final scene....

And the music, damn.... Ramin Djawadi has made it even more epic. The score at the end and during the credits is amazing, and I hope HBO releases a season 2 soundtrack.

Is it next week yet???

[Drinking Cersei's Tears]

The fact that the sex scene just came completely out of nowhere and started immediatley with the high-pitched moaning is what made is hilarious.

[Tywin's bastard]

The fact that the sex scene just came completely out of nowhere and started immediatley with the high-pitched moaning is what made is hilarious.

It wasn't intended to be sexy, given Ros' reaction, so no problem there.

[Sound_of_winter]

I dorked over some of the small details, like mentioned above:

- Mel's glowing Ruby

- Bran's reflection

- Varys's little bird (or little fingers?)

- The way Rob "controls" Grey Wind, the way he pets him and sends him towards Jaime

I'm sure there's more, I need to watch it again!

[Chelly]

The fact that the sex scene just came completely out of nowhere and started immediatley with the high-pitched moaning is what made is hilarious.

Haha. I was watching it in the living room and the volume was pretty loud because before that was when Cersei smacked Joff and I was like "Oh, shiiiettt" So I wanted to here what he would say, then BAM...it switches over the brothel and that girl's moaning sounded utterly ridiculous. My volume was still up and it just sounded so loud. My husband poked his head out of bedroom and gave me this look like "what the hell are you watching?" It was just so abrupt.

Other than that I loved the episode. Next Sunday needs to be here NOW.

[Lord Barristan]

I wish they had kept Joff's name day the same as the books. Not because I'm a book "snob" but because I found the scene to be hilarious... Joff talks about the Beggar King and then how he wants to challenge robb to single combat. And Myrcella's line of "we're children, we're supposed to be childish." Then when Tyrion comes in and tells Joff he's sorry for his loss and reminds him about Robert and he says "Oh him. Yes a boar killed him. it was very sad." When I rereard that chapter I laugh out loud every time. Still was very good, but I wish they had kept that the same...

[nara]

If you didn't notice there's been some modifications to Joffrey's for the show, giving him some degree of competence. If you recal in the first season who goes off on a rant to Cersei about having a standing army, and he could have been BS'ing but Grand Maeser Pycelle did comment that he had a strong military mind. Also note at the end of season 1 that Gleason's character showed genuine concern/confusion as to why Ned Stark would say he's not the rightful King, what he 'meant' by that. Him questioning Cersei about it to start season 2 is just a continuation of all that.

I think what we're seeing here is the same thing that Harry Lloyd did for Viserys: take a character from the book that was a cruel unlikeable dirtbag and add a sympathetic element to him. For myself at least the impression I get of the Joffrey onscreen is an unrestrained teenager (and kids/teenagers can be cruel) who's very much a product of his environment, that if he fell under the guidance of someone like Ned Stark could have been redeemable.

I like this change. I always thought it was a weak point in the books that Joffrey was so completely incompetent. It seems impossible to me that Jaime's son didn't have at least some natural skill as a fighter and that Cersei's son didn't have some natural charm.

[Ser Ilyn's Tongue]

Mostly I thought it was pretty good. It felt a little disjointed and rushed, but it is the series opener so this was always likely.

The performances were all really good (notably Bran, Cersei and Joffrey), the end scenes were intense and quite surprising, the new characters look well cast and it set up really quite a lot in a short space of time. Even Ros was less annoying than before (now that they've found a place and use for her).

Smaller things I liked include Slynt getting more screen time (and more reasons to hate him), Bran and Luwin's moment together, seeing Varys' little birds and Arya and Gendry's entrance.

As the series moves on and gets more focused, I imagine that this will have been one of the weaker episodes overall. If so, I think we're in for a good series.

[Rob the God]

Overall a very good Episode but couldn't quite transfer all of the tension from the end of Season 1

Every situation was briefly explained and we already had some

real highlights. The new sceens were good and all had a purpose.

(littlef/cersei wasn't that good but i don't get the whining about the scene).

Production scale was just awesome. All in all i think the directors really give everything

for makeing this show as good as it can be.

Also liked the end of the episode as it rounded it up very well.

My Highlights were:

-Tyrion and Cersei (brilliant how he showed her her failures)

- Davos was excelent! Stannis was also great but i felt we didn't see enough of him.

- Aweseome Dragonstone scene when they were sitting at the map table / "it's a lie take it out"

- Liked the way they did the wolf dreams (weren't sure a tv series could handle it)

- TV Janos Slynt will be the same motherfucker as is he is in the books

- Scene between Cat and Robb. Very good acting from Richard Madden.

- Robb & Jaime & Greywind: my Highlight of the Week

-Another Highlight was overall directing. HBO has really outdone themself in parts of Camera and Art Direction.

Didn't like:

-First scene: to far away from the book, to fast, ser dontos introduction was awkward

- little to much Kings Landing for me

-Burning of the 7 scene was ok not more

- i know i am the only one but i pictured Dol. Edd completely diffrently :(

On the "Who ordered to kill the bastards" topic: I think it can still be Cersei. Let's wait till Tyrion talks to Slynt.

Looking forward to the next episodes. HBO is defintly going the right way. Episode 1 and 2 will just be set ups for the plot lines to develop.

[Geert]

Not a lot to add to what has already been said but this: when Bran looked at his reflection in the pool in the Godswood, I thought he really looked like Arya there. Coïncidence, or planned? Or was I the only one who saw it?

[Skeksi]

Really enjoyed the episode as a whole.

First things first: Good to see that Conleth Hill made it into the opening credits. I wasn't surprised to see the actors playing Davos, Stannis and Melisandre making it there, too, though I was quite surprised to see Bronn and Shae- increased roles for them, perhaps? Or simply a result of Tyrion's increased presence on the show (presumably), and their proximity to him?

The episode was very much introductory: catch up with the existing characters in their locations- Robb, Theon, Catelyn and Jaime in Robb's camp; the Lannisters in King's Landing, a bit of Bran and Daenerys, and of course, introducing Stannis, Davos and Melisandre. It wasn't especially fast paced, but it worked well at showing the audience the positions of most of the major players at the start of the series. I think this, as a whole, was done well.

I liked the added scene between Joffrey and Cersei- given the aging of Joffrey, and the addition of some strategic/ military competence hinted at in the first season (the idea of a standing army loyal to the crown, etc), it makes sense that he would be seizing charge more readily, and be less ready to listen to the advice of his mother- especially since he seems to genuinely wonder whether the rumour of her incest is true or not, in which case she has put his claim in danger. In turn, Cersei- who in the books definitely desires power- is likely to be knocked into touch a bit by her son acting this way. Jack Gleeson, BTW, does an awesome job as Joffrey.

I liked the final scene, killing the bastards, ending on a shot of Gendry with Arya. It's quite a dramatic event to end what has been a reasonably slow paced episode, picking up the pace nicely as we head into the season proper. Plus, the final shots of Arya and Gendry serve to not only show Arya to the viewers, but to remind them of Gendry's parentage, emphasising that the bastards of Robert are at risk, and thus that there are guards heading not only after Gendry, but Arya- also some nice dramatic set up.

My major issue is with the Littlefinger-Cersei scene. I don't feel that it fits with Littlefinger as a clever manipulator, and I don't think it is necessary to give him a reason to work against the Lannisters, given that he has already shown willingness to betray for his own benefit, and made it clear to the viewers that his sights are set on the highest power, which isn't going to mesh with Cersei and Joffrey in charge. It just seems clunky, and is a disappointing reintroduction to Littlefinger, given that it is his only major scene this episode.

Another minor issue: I feel that sticking the introduction of Stannis and co. in the middle of the introductions of established characters on the show might have been a mistake- the last season opened with a scene largely unconnected to the rest of the series, and I feel that having a similar scene establishing Stannis and Maester Cressen pre-credits would have worked better- preferably followed up by the later scene of the attempted poisoning of Melisandre, perhaps lengthened to miss out Bran's first or second scene. It doesn't work too badly as it is, but given that we are familiar with the rest of the characters, I think it would have served better to introduce Stannis and co first, before the rest of the episode, basically.

Obviously a few things have been changed from the series- Jaime's location, the increased role of Robb, Shae being in the Tower of the Hand from the start. I'm interested to see what they do with Ros. Obviously she appears to have taken on the role of LF's second-in-command at the brothel, but whether this leads to her role being to replace Alayaya, or if she gets a different storyline of her own, it's something of a relief to see her clothed, suggesting that her role might be expanded from sexposition vehicle. If they're going to keep her in, might as well make her interesting.

So, in summary: a largely good episode, that works very well as an opener (though might have been a little slow paced if it had been placed elsewhere in the series), and picks up the pace nicely towards the end. Good acting overall. One clunky scene, and a couple of scenes that could have done with being rearranged are the main complaints. A few changes made to the book, but other than the aforementioned clunk, nothing too jarring. Series has been set up nicely, and I look forward to seeing how some of these changes develop.

In the next episode, I would hope to get introductions to Renly, Brienne and co. who are obviously one of the other big group introductions of the series, and possibly the Greyjoys. I would expect at least one scene of showing Arya's journey, possibly more since she has barely appeared this episode. At least one decent Varys scene, since in the books he plays a bigger role this time around, and a better Littlefinger scene. We will see.

[YoungGriff the Conqueror]

Not sure if she did. I know Old Nan sniffed the air and said dragons in reference to the comet (awesome scene in the books). But I guess Osha needs to start displaying that wisdom if she is (speculatively) to replace the reeds.

Are the Reeds not going to be in the series?

[Drinking Cersei's Tears]

Are the Reeds not going to be in the series?

It's looking really doubtful at this point.

[Brienne the Beauty]

I really don't get the obsession with prostitutes in this series. There were plenty of hookers in the source material, but the TV show for some reason sees fit to add to them, even creating original prostitute characters to replace the ones who were already there. They are not interesting at all to this straight woman, I'd get more out of a few more seconds given to genuinely interesting and sexy characters like Melisandre.

I do like the expansion of Shae's character though, assuming it continues.

[Howdyphillip]

So we went a full season with no comet, and now it appears in pretty much every scene. Osha's comment does well to tell us why they did that... it couldn't appear until the dragons did, I guess.

Uh... Yeah... just like the books. comets=dragons born

I actually wished that they would have started out on Dragonstone to introduce Stannis, Melisandre, and company. It was a perfect way to introduce the new characters. I was actually a little upset that they went away from that, and was looking to be critical and then Peter MotherF@#^$&g Dinkledge walked on, and from that point on, I was totally immersed back in Westeros. That guy nails the role like Tyyrion nailed wine and whores in the books. He might not be the absolute perfect look, but he is the perfect guy for the job.

Cressen didn't look like what I imagined, but they absolutely took Gilly straight from my mind and put her on screen. (I am assuming hat the speaking role went to Gilly, they never mentioned her name.) Also Cressen's keep was my favorite set on the show. It couldn't have been built any better. I also particularly liked the Old Bear chewing out John snow. The mentorship in that relationship is really important.

The CGI department did an incredible job as well. I know they are just babies, but the dragons look as good as any that I have ever seen. I loved the direwolves as well. Greywind was awesome another thing to remark on was the score. It seems that a lot more work was put in on it this season, and the instrumentation sounded absolutely majestic.

I personally don't mind the changes that were done. I am watching the series with a bunch of people who haven't read the books, and there is just no way they are going to be able to understand the nuances of the characters. I understand that Baelish wasn't in an adversarial role to Cersei at any point out in the open, but it just doesn't seem to be that much of a big deal to me, and it adds to the general feeling of tension around King's Landing without having to explain in minute detail the machinations of political dealings.

I also didn't mind that Cleos Frey's name was changed to Lannister. (I believe it was Cleos that went to KL to send Rob's terms.) The series is getting more and more complex, and there is a definite advantage to keeping it much simpler for a TV audience.

[David Selig]

Not one of the better episodes of the series IMO, a bit too disjointed and too much setup (necessary mostly, but still didn't make for great viewing). Strong ending, but the rest was so-so.

Most enjoyable scene for me was Craster mocking Jon and putting him in his place. "Who's this little girl?" LOL.

Didn't like the LF - Cersei series, too out of character for Petyr, and Power is power" was lame.

Jack Gleeson continues to be a great Joffrey.

[Jory]

Pissed about them cutting Shireen from the series.