[Book Spoilers] EP201 Discussion

[turdle]

We don't need Shireen (except she introduces the concept of greyscale). We do need Patchface and his singing about under the sea.

i did miss patchface. is he cast?

[teemo]

We see Stannis grab a woman by the arm as they leave the beach. I assumed that was Selyse.

Yah, I thought I noticed that too. No one else mentioned it though, so I thought I was just seeing something else.

[DannySpud]

I do think it's odd how Shireen/Patchface/Selyse are cut. Like Lord Varys says, Shireen could be a queen one day, and the greyscale thing with her and Val seemed to have some unknown significance in aDwD. However, GRRM has mentioned that he gives the writers a general gist of what's to happen in the future if anything ever happens to him. Maybe it's sort of a stretch, but is it possible that GRRM told the writers not to worry about them and they basically mean nothing in the long run? Or maybe the writers are just going to take a different route with it if Stannis does ever sit the Iron Throne.

I don't think we can infer anything from GRRM's influence on the show with regards to future books. I think her only possible influence in the future would be with the greyscale, and they can totally do that with a different character. I think as long as GRRM can see a way of writing stuff back in he'll let them make the changes they need to.

[Raksha the Demon]

Loved Greywind's meeting Jaime; the CGI works well (and on teeny Drogon too!).

I would prefer less, not more, of Ros; but she seems to have climbed the brothel hierarchy so fast from new recruit to manager that I wonder if she's slept with Littlefinger. The attack on and murder of baby Barra was horrifyingly real; though I'd like clarification on whether Cersei or Joffrey gave the order to eliminate Baratheon bastards.

Cersei looked physically better this season, especially her hair. Her ambivalence; i.e. pleasure at being able to wield some power and concern over Joffrey's rising independence, came across well.

Tyrion was terrific; and I liked his taking over the small council and beginning, at least trying to, take control of things. Good interaction between him and the pale, subdued Sansa, and a good beginning to the Sansa/Dontos sub-plot. (I really loved Sansa and the Hound's suddenly tag-teaming to save Dontos from Joffrey).

Not sure about Melisandre; but I like Stephen Dillane as Stannis.

I wondered whether Emilia Clarke did some working out between seasons; she doesn't look as soft this season. Or perhaps it's because she's a pretty good actress. Loved the bit with her trying to coax Drogon to eat.

Since I don't have cable TV, and only saw the first episode because a friend invited me to watch, I'm not sure when I'll get to watch the rest of the season, but I enjoyed the season premier.

[teemo]

lol this is funny...the author should be here nitpicking with everyone:

http://www.wired.com/underwire/2012/04/book-curmudgeon-game-of-thrones/

[Drinking Cersei's Tears]

I wonder if they're going to have Mel give Stannis a real child, in addition to shadow babies.

[nara]

Yeah, I agree that the Lannister name makes it clear exactly where his allegiances are.

I can never follow these parentage equations, I think I get C&J, but who are J+A?

There are some who believe that King Aerys is the father of Jaime and Cersei. He was in love/lust with their mother, Joanna Lannister and "took liberties" during the bedding when she married Tywin. Whether "liberties" extended to rape is anyone's guess. The idea is that Aerys as a father would explain Cersei's persecution complex, love of wildfire, and the incest. There's a thread about this on the forum. Not a believer myself, but there is reason to think it might be true. Hope that helps!

[Ser Cipher]

Yah, I thought I noticed that too. No one else mentioned it though, so I thought I was just seeing something else.

Yeah. Also, if you look close he is initially turning to Mel, but he catches himself and motions to Selyse instead.

[DannySpud]

There are some who believe that King Aerys is the father of Jaime and Cersei. He was in love/lust with their mother, Joanna Lannister and "took liberties" during the bedding when she married Tywin. Whether "liberties" extended to rape is anyone's guess. The idea is that Aerys as a father would explain Cersei's persecution complex, love of wildfire, and the incest. There's a thread about this on the forum. Not a believer myself, but there is reason to think it might be true. Hope that helps!

Thanks. I'm not sure about this, I vastly prefer the R+J one. That one has so much to it that when I first heard it I almost felt like I'd been spoiled.

[Mya Stone]

I rewatched it, and I truly think the scene between Dany and Rakharo was just to cement their bloodrider/khal(eesi) bond. I don't think anything romantic was meant by it.

(Of course watch me be super wrong and Rakharo take over Daario's role...which would be wrong. I want a blue-haired pimp, dammit.)

[Fragile Bird]

The attack on and murder of baby Barra was horrifyingly real; though I'd like clarification on whether Cersei or Joffrey gave the order to eliminate Baratheon bastards.

I wondered whether Emilia Clarke did some working out between seasons; she doesn't look as soft this season. Or perhaps it's because she's a pretty good actress. Loved the bit with her trying to coax Drogon to eat.

I understood from the reviews done by Ran after seeing the 1st 4 episodes, that it's very clear Joffrey ordered the killings. Part of the explanation is that Joffrey is a few years older in the HBO series than he is in the books, and it's natural to shift some things to him. I think it makes him more evil, and while people have complained that it makes Cersei less evil, perhaps that's also why they added the strange Littlefinger/Cersei confrontation.

In one of the interviews with the actress who plays Dany, Emilia Clarke, the interviewer notes that she was in much better shape by the end of season 1. Emilia points out that Dany at the start is a soft city dweller, and by the end of the season she has been living the tough life of the Dothraki, and she's been riding a lot too, lol. It was also pointed out in some stories about season 2 that filming conditions were pretty tough and at one point she fainted in the intense heat. ie she did lose weight!

[Lord Varys]

I just watched 'The Night Lands'. Don't ask how, I can't give away the little birds...

And Mel's explicit words are 'She [selyse] is sickly. She is weak. She disgusts you. [...] And she has given you nothing. No sons. Only stillborns. Only death. I will give you a son my king.' (open end)

This might very well mean that Shireen is gone. Damn you, Benioff & Weiss, we all loved Shireen Baratheon! Even all those people who never explicitly stated as much! Everyone loves Shireen!

On the other hand, the series established back in season 1 that daughters came last in the line of succession, and since Mel did not explicitly say 'No son. No daughters.' nor 'No children.' there is still some hope left...

[Boar Hunter]

Moving at a quick pace, seems to me that S2 is going to have a fair amount of ACOK in it. This may imply that they could wrap up all of the current books in 2 seasons. I hope I am wrong, talk me down. 7 books 7 seaasons right?

ACOK, a Clash of Kings, is book 2, so I guess you meant A Storm of Swords. The episode definitely seemed like it was trying to cram in a lot of things, but book 2 is 200 pages longer than game of Thrones. there has been nothing IMO so far to indicate that multiple books will be covered in the same TV season. So.......I guess don't stress it?

[Jory]

I just watched 'The Night Lands'. Don't ask how, I can't give away the little birds...

And Mel's explicit words are 'She [selyse] is sickly. She is weak. She disgusts you. [...] And she has given you nothing. No sons. Only stillborns. Only death. I will give you a son my king.' (open end)

This might very well mean that Shireen is gone. Damn you, Benioff & Weiss, we all loved Shireen Baratheon! Even all those people who never explicitly stated as much! Everyone loves Shireen!

On the other hand, the series established back in season 1 that daughters came last in the line of succession, and since Mel did not explicitly say 'No son. No daughters.' nor 'No children.' there is still some hope left...

Responding to his post:

Okay, since you've seen it, can you shed a little light on what the hell that scene is all about? I've heard a ton, but I'm really quite astonished by how stupid and weird the interaction seems. She promises him a son, but so what? It would be a bastard, and Stannis doesn't seem the type to legitimize his own bastard or whatever.

I get that it's a setup for Renly's death and that it's a way to sort of clear Stannis' name - which I obviously appreciate - but the way they do it just seems so very strange and makes Stannis seem kind of... dumb?

[Leto Atreides]

Craster's Keep looked just like I imagined it, but not Craster himself. What a weird casting decision

I thought he would look like one of Tyrion's mountain men, or maybe Rasputin, but not a guy that looks like a Roman Patrician.

[The Owl]

A few comments.. Loved the premier, but have a few gripes...

- I didn't like (but am not bothered too much) the Littlefinger/Cersei scene... creates a conflict that was never there, and it's hard to understand after a scene like this why she would offer him Harrenhal.

- Joffery knowing about his lineage.... as far as I am aware Joff never knew about his true parentage in the books, or at least it was never mentioned explicitly. But even in the Books Joff had to know the rumors...(hearing half kings landing shouting "brother f***er" at Cersei had to give him some impressions at the least... But to outright confront his mother about Stannis' allegations, and from what the show seemed to hint at even believe it..... it was a bit weird, but not too big of an issue.

- And the one that has been discussed here as well, the semblance of Joff ordering the execution of Robert's bastards, I am pretty confident it was Cersei in the books, (when Yoren and crew is approached by Lannisters on the Kingsroad, it is stated that their charge comes from the Queen)... again not a big deal, and this change does fit with the other changed I mentioned in my last bullet point.

[Jaxom 1974]

I'm more worried about the fact that the Reeds never were cast. The Tullys can easily fit in later on. And Hoster has already been mentioned in Season 1 (although passingly) so it wouldn't be entirely strange to introduce them whenever.

They seem to be going for the idea that it'll be the Helena Bonham Carter's Bellatrix Lestrange look-a-like as Osha taking over the Reeds' roles. I hope that isn't an error.

And not related, but I'm sorry but the actor playing Joffery just seems to me to be a variation on Draco Malfoy and it grates on me...

I'm even more worried about Ramsay not being cast as far as I know. I've been telling people for a while that I'm concerned that they haven't cast him or the Reed children. Edmure has been delayed long enough that him showing up next season will just look weird.

Casting Ramsay right now is a bit pre-mature. Reek could be anyone at this point in such a minor role. If, when, the show is continued on, well, we don't need to see Ramsay again for a couple more books...re-casting with a "name" shouldn't be an issue.

ETA: Cressen's Death: I actually thought they did the best they could; they had to make it clear that Cressen was trying to poison Mel; that it not be as ham-handed as it was in the book (in the boiok everyone in the world knows what he's trying to do; and its left slightly ambiguous as to whether the posion was taken by Mel or if it stayed in the cup for Cressen) and that the poison worked. By him drinking first it does two things: first, it's him saying "See, this drink is fine. Look! I'm drinking from it." Second, Cressen says that he is willing to die to expose Mel. When Mel sees this she... drinks. BAsically she is saying that these trivial tricks cannot harm her.

Don't disagree with the assesment, but I still think the scene needed to be the first thing we see in the premiere. The introduction of Stannis and Melisandre have a powerful impact upon the story as a whole. It was stilted to have the scene 20 minutes, or whatever it was, into the episode.

The Painted Table was cool though, if smaller than expected...

I rewatched it, and I truly think the scene between Dany and Rakharo was just to cement their bloodrider/khal(eesi) bond. I don't think anything romantic was meant by it.

Did they change the name of the third bloodrider...?

[The Owl]

Oh, and yeah..... please be writing Ros out of the script... what a horrible waste of screentime

[lmanion]

Loved it, watching it again now. Little things like Tyrions high cheekbones quip

-Luwin 'well we didnt want him here all day'

-the wolf dream seeing the comet for the first tim through Summers' eyes

-the comet linking the different locations/people

-Grey Wind! (enough said :P)

-Crasters keep, it was exactly as I imagined it at first sight.

-Ros makes the tiniest bit more sense if she is going to be Chataya/Alayaya

-Dolorous Ed, Crasters still 'ere, must be doing something right.

-Craster was great the look was a bit off but everything else about him was spot on.

-Have now spotted 2 actors from the original cast of Skins - Gendry (Chris) and probably Gilly (Cassey)

-I'm about as interested in Mel/Stannis and the lord of light as I was when I read it = not very. However I always like Davos and the casting of him is spot on.

-Casting for Stannis was pretty good too.

-No ghost?

-The warging was done quite well

-We did get a quick sighting of Selyse as they walk away from the bonfires on Dragonstone.

-The table on Dragonstone was great

-Robb is going to be great this series

-The guy that plays Jaime is almost as good as Peter D with Tyrion. 'dont like to be called boy? insulted?' - enter Grey Wind and bricking shits lol

-I actually like Shae compared to the book but why is she in the Tower of the hand, I didn't think she was ever there to start with in the books?

-Joffrey I hated in the books and somehow hate even more in the show - Fantastic!

-The whorehouse scene is fucking terrible with Ros quoting Littlefinger, the second part of the scene would have been enough with her explaining about the place to the new girl.

-Janos Slynt has come good in this season, in the books I always thought he was pretty terrible but that didnt seem to come across in the first season.

-I like the idea of joff being behind murdering the bastards.

-F you directors for teasing us with Arya right at the end can't wait to see more of her and of Gendry this season, apart from them I was mainly looking forward to John and the story North of the wall. Of course after the first season and this episode I cant wait to see Tyrion and Robb/Grey Wind

-Cersei vs Petyr, I actually liked this scene its not really about Petyr he taunts her about the letter that Stannis has sent out to the kingdom is the way I'm seeing it, using something that has become a fairly widespread rumour, but also there is a hint that he already knew and didn't use the power of that knowledge against her before. Its more a scene to show 'crazy' Cersei as she will become and Petyr realises how completely nuts she is going to become.

Just to complain slightly

4 and a half minutes before anything new happens really?

Sandor swaps hands in the fight at the start when the camera view changes

Sansa annoys me and always did in the books

Dontos and his armour - I think someone mentioned Captain America

Although Joffrey in the scene was awesome the looks he gives Sansa at various times.

Rakharo and Dany sexual tension seriously? Maybe they are plugging the gap between Drogo and Daario for Dany. (possible pun intended :P)

Must have more Bronn, Shagga, Varys and there can never be enough Tyrion!

[Arrogant Bastard]

Don't disagree with the assesment, but I still think the scene needed to be the first thing we see in the premiere. The introduction of Stannis and Melisandre have a powerful impact upon the story as a whole. It was stilted to have the scene 20 minutes, or whatever it was, into the episode.

The Painted Table was cool though, if smaller than expected...

I agree with this. The entire Dragonstone sequence with Stannis, Melisandre, Davos and Cressen occurred without once cutting to another story, so they easily could have placed it at the start of the episode before the opening credits, like last year. Not sure how long that sequence was, but it probably wasn't that much longer than the cold opening last year. Then again, they probably put it later because of Stannis' letters being mentioned right after.