Walking Dead Season 3, Vol. 6 {No comics spoilers in here}

[Reposado]

God,this was slow and stupid. Lets try and stretch one sentence (I'll let you live if you give me Michone) in to an entire episode.

i could see that being part of their thought process. didn't they get extended an extra three episodes at one point? so they could have looked through scripts, saw that piece of dialogue and thought, "bam, that's an episode. that line has more plot than several season 2 episodes"

So the governor's whole "We could have killed all of you"... I'm not really buying it. Maybe if they were all out in the open, yeah, sure.

but they were out in the open. that's what i assume he is talking about. when rick's group were running around teh yard killing zombies, and the governor folk were outside the gates with guns, he could have easily killed them.

Taking all those Woodbury noncombatants and handing them guns doesn't make them able to hit anything, nor does it make them the type of folks who won't panic as soon as things get squrrelly. That's why Tyreese's group was so important. That really would have swung the balance much more heavily in Rick's favor.

they don't need to arm the noncombatants. they just need to arm the same guys who took out the national guard. they still greatly outnumber rick's handful

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

they don't need to arm the noncombatants. they just need to arm the same guys who took out the national guard. they still greatly outnumber rick's handful

Really? How many of those guys are there? Merle is gone, and at least one of the other guys is dead from the attack on the prison. Didn't at least 3-4 more die when Rick's group rescued Glenn/Maggie/Daryl? From what I remember, he didn't have more than 10 or so total at the National Guard ambush. In Rick's group, just about everyone except Carol is pretty damn good with a gun, and Rick and Merle are exceptional even if you consider Daryl and Martinez a wash.

I mean, even the Gov said that Rick's people are better trained.

[awesome possum]

Even Carol has been getting better. Wasn't she up on the tower with the sniper rifle when they were clearing out the yard, or am I thinking of someone else?

Either way, if they had enough food the prison would be great defensively unless the Governor has explosives. Barricade one of the doors to the cell block so that only a gun barrel can be put through it and wait to blast the Gov's henchmen as they come through a bottleneck. All made moot by a single grenade, though.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Even Carol has been getting better. Wasn't she up on the tower with the sniper rifle when they were clearing out the yard, or am I thinking of someone else?

She was up there too, but anyone who has shot themselves could see from the way she was holding it that she's pretty bad.

Either way, if they had enough food the prison would be great defensively unless the Governor has explosives. Barricade one of the doors to the cell block so that only a gun barrel can be put through it and wait to blast the Gov's henchmen as they come through a bottleneck. All made moot by a single grenade, though.

Why bother if Rick's group essentially entombs themselves? Just put your own guards and boob-traps outside that door, and you've won. Sooner or later, food runs out, or people go stir-crazy.

Anyway, forgetting the grenade, the best thing to use would be to use gasoline if you really wanted to force them out. But like I said, I don't think that's necessary.

[Wun Drop]

I worry about the implications for Carl's loyalty if he catches wind of his Dad's plans for Michonne, now that they are BFF's after the rainbow kitty incident in the previous episode. That's exactly the type of emotional ammunition that someone like Merle is expert at manipulating.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

I worry about the implications for Carl's loyalty if he catches wind of his Dad's plans for Michonne, now that they are BFF's after the rainbow kitty incident in the previous episode. That's exactly the type of emotional ammunition that someone like Merle is expert at manipulating.

I thought of that same thing, but maybe from a slightly different angle. I think it is Carl's endorsement of her that may ultimately swing Rick's decision. Carl's reaction would be "dad, that's just wrong," and I think Rick's reaction to that POV would hit him pretty hard. At some point, as a father, you have to wonder exactly what you are teaching your kid.

[So1ar]

Rick won't give Michonne up. Sure he's considering it because he wants to believe it will end the killings. However, he knows what kind of man the Governor is so I doubt he truly believes that giving her up will end it and they can all just go their separate ways.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Rick won't give Michonne up. Sure he's considering it because he wants to believe it will end the killings. However, he knows what kind of man the Governor is so I doubt he truly believes that giving her up will end it and they can all just go their separate ways.

Yeah, that wouldn't make much sense.

Discussions/arguments on this show are so funky. In a way, we're putting ourselves in their positions, and arguing what we'd do, or should do, in that position. It's like we really really wish we all were there to argue with each other about whether we should hang on to the prison, etc., even though the reality is that it would be horrible. I mean, don't you think there are folks out there who would be excited if the ZA actually happened? Fuck, I'd be excited even though I know intellectually it would be horrible.

[Reposado]

Really? How many of those guys are there? Merle is gone, and at least one of the other guys is dead from the attack on the prison. Didn't at least 3-4 more die when Rick's group rescued Glenn/Maggie/Daryl? From what I remember, he didn't have more than 10 or so total at the National Guard ambush. In Rick's group, just about everyone except Carol is pretty damn good with a gun, and Rick and Merle are exceptional even if you consider Daryl and Martinez a wash.

I mean, even the Gov said that Rick's people are better trained.

well, rick and his people could not take out a national guard patrol, so the transitive property suggests....

and how does the governor know how good rick's people are. the crew is very good at taking out zombies, (all head shots!) but can't seem to do much against living people.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

well, rick and his people could not take out a national guard patrol, so the transitive property suggests....

I'm not sure the Governor could still do that. He's lost 4-5 people by my count, plus a miltary experienced guy in Merle. And the truth is that ambush was pretty unrealistic anyway. Rick's now gained Merle.

and how does the governor know how good rick's people are. the crew is very good at taking out zombies, (all head shots!) but can't seem to do much against living people.

They did a pretty good job when they busted in to rescue Glenn/Maggie, and then again to rescue Daryl. They basically ran circles around the Governors' guys. Better shots, better movement, etc.. I think those encounters are the baseline for the comparison.

[Howdyphillip]

Another thing to add to the Rick vs the Governor debate is that the Gov had the drop on the prison, and wound up only taking out one of Rick's group while losing one of his own.

I thought that the most out of place comment in the entire episode was when Cyclops told Rick that he could have killed them all already.

[Isalie]

Actually, I don't think we are allowed to count the Gov's guys, in addition to those already mentioned, we have the 2+1 guys that Michonne killed while escaping, he really should be running out of muscle. Sure, now he has Tyrese (who might turn on Andrea? ), but besides Martinez, the lady on the wall and the black man, who have we really seen? I think they'll just add people until they've reach whatever end they have in mind.

[paddington]

Yeah, that wouldn't make much sense.

Discussions/arguments on this show are so funky. In a way, we're putting ourselves in their positions, and arguing what we'd do, or should do, in that position. It's like we really really wish we all were there to argue with each other about whether we should hang on to the prison, etc., even though the reality is that it would be horrible. I mean, don't you think there are folks out there who would be excited if the ZA actually happened? Fuck, I'd be excited even though I know intellectually it would be horrible.

I'd be a frigging zombie, in fact I am pretty sure that if the ZA happened that I'd be the first bloody zombie.

Hate being a week behind, so I am still thinking about the guy on the road :(. Anyway I am not sure the Guv has the patience for a long siege of the prision. He's idea of arming everyone didn't seem popular, so it won't take too many casualties before his own people start to think the quickest end is killing him. Also how much does he know about the food situation inside. He could starve them out in weeks, or it could take months. It would be too much of a gamble to storm it.

I'd stick with the prision, if the only other option is running.

[Isalie]

I'd run, look for a small island and set up camp there, preferably one only accesible by boat.

[awesome possum]

Actually, I don't think we are allowed to count the Gov's guys, in addition to those already mentioned, we have the 2+1 guys that Michonne killed while escaping, he really should be running out of muscle. Sure, now he has Tyrese (who might turn on Andrea? ), but besides Martinez, the lady on the wall and the black man, who have we really seen? I think they'll just add people until they've reach whatever end they have in mind.

That's why he was "recruiting" everyone in Woodbury over the age of 14(?) who could hold a gun to become his little army.

Why bother if Rick's group essentially entombs themselves? Just put your own guards and boob-traps outside that door, and you've won. Sooner or later, food runs out, or people go stir-crazy.

Anyway, forgetting the grenade, the best thing to use would be to use gasoline if you really wanted to force them out. But like I said, I don't think that's necessary.

As someone said above, I don't think the Gov has it in him to hold a long siege. The fires of vengeance are burning too brightly and I think his people would quickly lose their nerve if they're manning a siege and hear an infant wailing in hunger. I'm not sure if gas would work either, since there's really nothing but metal and concrete in the cell block to burn.

[Reposado]

Another thing to add to the Rick vs the Governor debate is that the Gov had the drop on the prison, and wound up only taking out one of Rick's group while losing one of his own.

I thought that the most out of place comment in the entire episode was when Cyclops told Rick that he could have killed them all already.

but he could have. we saw that. he was standing out side the gates with all his guns while rock's crew were running around in the open inside. he just walked away

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Actually, I don't think we are allowed to count the Gov's guys, in addition to those already mentioned, we have the 2+1 guys that Michonne killed while escaping, he really should be running out of muscle.

Right -- I knew I was forgetting something. He's lost a good 7-8 trained people.

But I do think we're allowed to count it because the Gov. himself apparently is. First, running out of his best guys explains why he think he needs to arm everyone else, and second, it confirms his comment that Rick's people are better trained. Not much point, anymore, in trying to deny that, because Merle's presence in Rick's camp means that Rick will have a good idea as to the Governor's strength after those losses. Of course, that does leave Tyreese's group as his ace in the hole....

[The Monkey]

When the battle comes, it would be a nice twist if Andrea had managed to convince Tyreese's group to switch sides mid-battle Karstark-style and attack the Governor's people from behind.

[Lady Olenna]

:agree:

That would actually redeem Andreas prior stupid decisions IMO.

[Spring Bass]

I'd run, look for a small island and set up camp there, preferably one only accesible by boat.

Georgia has a couple islands off its coast like that, I think. The only problem is that the bigger ones had/have people on them you might have to fight/negotiate with, and the uninhabited ones tend to have brackish water supplies.