LonCon 3 2014

[Ran]

Not a drinker, so take this with a grain of salt, but I think anyone offended by being asked for ID is very welcome to not partake in the free drinks on offer and can go find some other, more congenial party.

It's pretty straightforward. One can vote with one's feet.

[Adz of CCAA]

To answer an earlier question: yes, we are doing t-shirts. Currently trying to suss out the best options for printing, which might affect the price of the shirts. Will have more details soon.

As per usual, they will be black with a front and back print.

Cool! :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Not a drinker, so take this with a grain of salt, but I think anyone offended by being asked for ID is very welcome to not partake in the free drinks on offer and can go find some other, more congenial party.

It's pretty straightforward. One can vote with one's feet.

I agree with what Ran said.

[SamanthaofHodorsfield]

Right, but my point is there is world of difference between someone who looks "under 18" and someone who looks "under 25". So I suppose I can summarise in saying that I reject the "Challenge 25" policy as a default given that the convention gives the party organisers some discretion. I think the BwB should, too. And to the extent that the people in charge of the London BwB parties are accustomed to US laws, they should bear in mind the UK situation.

True enough, but I think you're overexaggerating the offense that people are going to feel upon being IDed. As for bearing in mind the UK situation; its that anybody who looks as though they are 25 or under have a chance of being IDed, whether they are buying a pint at the pub, or a bottle of wine at Tescos. Challenge 25 has been in place a while now, so if somebody of that age range wants to drink then surely they are going to have some sort of ID in place.

So if somebody at LonCon has a Young Adult Badge, that indicates they are under 25, then, to me, they should expect to be challenged and carry appropriate ID. Now yes, if people with an Adult Badge (i.e. those over 25) were getting IDed left, right and centre, then I would have something to say about it, but unless I've got the wrong end of the stick, that's not what the plan is. And if you reject the Challenge 25 as the default, then what default what you have? Challenge 21? Or just those who look under 18? Would you be willing to stand behind that bar and stake up to a £5k fine on you as an individual, and a further fine on the group, on getting it right every time when you're only IDing those you think look under 18? Because I've met 17 year olds that look like they're 20. Under your argument, we wouldn't ID them. Would you be willing to do that?

From the POV of the person being IDed, I can understand why you find it frustrating. Yet on the other hand, as somebody who has worked in a supermarket, and operated the "Challenge 25" policy, I can understand why it's in place. I challenged anybody that looked even remotely babyfaced and barely out of highschool, because the consequences of getting it wrong, and selling to a 17 year old was huge. I could face up to £5k in fines. Faced between that and cheesing off you and others who hate being IDed off by IDing them; hell, I'd choose IDing every time. Annoying somebody by refusing a sale because of no ID is safer than getting it wrong and bankrupting yourself with a fine you have no hope of paying.

[Lord Varys]

Well, I should really make that trip this year. Although being German - and a non-drinker - the whole British concept of room parties and stuff like that is still an enigma to me. But I really think this will be fun, anyway!

[Xray the Enforcer]

Just going to reinforce/echo what Mormont and Ran have said. We will check IDs. Those who object may go try their luck at another party. I am not going to risk prosecution and fines because a few inflexible individuals will be "annoyed."

To comment on the status of a BWB private party: We, unfortunately, will not be having one during LonCon3. I looked at all of our options, consulted with a number of individuals who are intimately familiar with all of the requirements of a private BWB shindig, and we came to the collective decision that it is not feasible. So, we will have the one public party, and then the other nights, people will be free to self-organize as their needs require. I know that this will come as a disappointment for many, but there was just no way that we could get it to work.

[TheCrannogDweller]

To comment on the status of a BWB private party: We, unfortunately, will not be having one during LonCon3. I looked at all of our options, consulted with a number of individuals who are intimately familiar with all of the requirements of a private BWB shindig, and we came to the collective decision that it is not feasible. So, we will have the one public party, and then the other nights, people will be free to self-organize as their needs require. I know that this will come as a disappointment for many, but there was just no way that we could get it to work.

Is it an issue of finding a venue? Because I'm sure we can scrounge up some pub to gather in.

[Ran]

Thanks, Xray. Guess we'll find folks hanging out in one of the hotel bars, or a nearby pub, more often than not. :)

[Xray the Enforcer]

Yep. There will be ample opportunity for large knots of BWB to congregate. We create one hell of a gravity well. ;)

ETA: CrannogDweller -- no, venue was not the main sticking point. Our troubles stem from having so many members in attendance, and a number of issues related to that.

[Maltaran]

I think Toft may be exaggerating the extent of people's possible annoyance - I'm 30, and while it's been a couple of years since I last got ID'd, I still take my drivers licence when I go out. The challenge 21 policy was already in place when I started drinking, so any Brits of the appropriate age who don't bring an ID when going drinking are being foolishly optimistic, IMO.

[Alex.]

Should be challenge 35 IMO.

Seriously though, getting ID'd isn't a big deal if you look fairly young, especially if you're sauntering around with a young adult ticket.

Expecting bar staff to risk a massive personal fine is screamingly unfair.

I haven't been ID'd in London for a couple of years now but still take my driving licence with me in my wallet. Its not that much of a hassle. If a copper tried to arrest me based on not showing my ID I'd tell them to do one, but poorly paid bar staff doing their job are more than welcome to.

Its not a hassle to move my hand to a part of my wallet slightly further away from my money to get a driving licence out ffs

ETA: as Samantha of Tarth put it, the interest of a barman avoiding a fine >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one customers mither about ID

[the maid of woodlynne]

Yep. There will be ample opportunity for large knots of BWB to congregate. We create one hell of a gravity well. ;)

ETA: CrannogDweller -- no, venue was not the main sticking point. Our troubles stem from having so many members in attendance, and a number of issues related to that.

Speaking of the fact that we are a very large group this year: Have the preliminary plans for BWB group outings (touristy stuff) been scrapped as well? No worries if that's the case - just curious for my own nerdcation purposes.

And thanks for the input re: the mobile. I'm pretty close to having it sorted. \m/

[Xray the Enforcer]

Have the preliminary plans for BWB group outings (touristy stuff) been scrapped as well? \

I don't think so? But I'm not the one organizing that stuff, so I'm not the best source of info. :)

[the maid of woodlynne]

I don't think so? But I'm not the one organizing that stuff, so I'm not the best source of info. :)

Thanks.

ETA: That was a premature post courtesy of Team USA. :blush:

I only have a few things on my short list. If it's not an imposition would you point me to our BWB Cruise Director, please?

[Angalin]

Thanks.

ETA: That was a premature post courtesy of Team USA. :blush:

I only have a few things on my short list. If it's not an imposition would you point me to our BWB Cruise Director, please?

Whatcha got? It might be worth starting a new thread for it. In other circumstances I would be willing to organize some sort of Educational & Cultural Expedition, preferably with Forced Fun; right now my priority is figuring out what to do with the Things while I'm gone, previous arrangements having busted up.

[karaddin]

Understandable but disappointing Xray. I'm sure there will still be lots of fun though! I'm starting to get anticipation for the nice long flight to London after seeing my parents off at the airport on Friday.

[the maid of woodlynne]

Forced fun...

That sucks about having to scramble arrangements for The Things. :(

My extremely short list is:

- Warner Bros Studios Harry Potter stuff

- Tower of London

- Art!

But I'm afraid to book anything before seeing the programming schedule (for fear of missing George-related fun).

I also do not mind running point on Potter things if necessary (but I have never been to London so I may need some help from our locals).

[karaddin]

Brook and I need to do the Tower of London at some point on the trip, although we were planning to head there our first day in London.

[Angalin]

Forced fun...

That sucks about having to scramble arrangements for The Things. :(

My extremely short list is:

- Warner Bros Studios Harry Potter stuff

- Tower of London

- Art!

But I'm afraid to book anything before seeing the programming schedule (for fear of missing George-related fun).

I also do not mind running point on Potter things if necessary (but I have never been to London so I may need some help from our locals).

We did Potter last summer and it was fantastic. Easy to get to from Euston, I think it was, and incredibly well-organized once you got there. If you know what day you want to go, book your tickets soonest possible: we were left with one of the latest entry times, spent four hours there and could have lingered longer. There's also a bus that runs to Leavesden directly from Victoria coach station, which costs a bit more.

The Tower you can book tickets for online in advance, which speeds things up. The Eye too, except the ticket pick-up counter turned out not to be where we thought it was at first and we were already pressed for time, eek eek.

[Arataniello]

There is always this to go see -

http://www.ica.org.uk/whats-on/tove-jansson-tales-nordic-archipelago

for Moomin fans. They (whoever 'they' are) are making a big thing out of Tove Jansson's centenary.

[MinDonner]

I don't see why any BwB mini-outings need to be "organised". Put up a thread with the trips you'd like to do and see who wants to go along, then suggest a time and meeting point; London's dead easy to get around so you don't really need someone on the ground to arrange matters. We're probably too big to have mass outings anyway, but lots of informal group trips to multitudinous sights by interest would be fun. :)