Atheist kids these days...

[David Selig]

I don't recall ever discussing religion or afterlife with my parents. Until I was 8m t country was communist and thus atheism was the state doctrine, but I can't recall being taught this in school either, though it probably happened. For as long as I can remember I've been atheist, at first pretty much by default since nobody trued to teach me any religion and pretty much all the books I read who had anything to say on this topic was atheist.

[Seli]

If people feel good through their faith, where is the harm in that? No, it's not a good argument for the proof of a god, but I'm not sure who is saying it is? The above mentions activists not believing faith is comforting, but it's not an actual argument for proof for or against, is it?

...

Not much. But the drawback of many religions is that they tend to think their idea of comfort and good living is appropriate for everyone. Which can lead to issues, and in the past most certainly has done so.

[wolverine]

Not to hijack this thread or anything, but I would be interested to hear how people came about to lose the faith they were brought up in. I remember my thought process pretty clearly. It went something like this: Every religion seems to think it has the correct answer. However, there doesnt seem to be anything special about any one religion that would elevate it above others. I don't see a reason god would reveal himself to Hindus over say Christians (why not do it at the same time to everyone rather than in a specific geographic location at a specific time). No religion is special, so all religions are similarly incorrect.

At least, that was it in the 7th grade. Since then I've refined my thought process some.

I was about 13 and was arguing with my younger brother about how ridiculous some of the Old Testament stories were, particularly the flood. He was horrified that I would question stuff from the bible. My mother was a devout Lutheran and my father a devout Catholic. We almost always went to church with mom, except on holidays we would do both. Now my dad attends church with my mom fairly often. It was about that age that I began to see the bible stories as just stories. I couldn't believe that God used to have such a perceivable presence in the world. I also began to realize that religion was man made, this did not mean that I did not believe in there being a God and in fact I still believed in Jesus Christ, I just felt no need to believe specific church doctrine.

I am curious, though maybe this should be in a new thread: What DO atheists think happens when they die?

It is horribly depressing to think that we are perpetually non-existent after death. Just so no one is confused, that is not an argument for an afterlife, just an observation.

[Gertrude]

Seli, well, yes. That is the problem I have with organized religion in general. I don't see the comfort and community faith brings to people as directly related to that. That's all net positive and doesn't have to exist alongside the proselytizing.

[Francis Buck]

Not to hijack this thread or anything, but I would be interested to hear how people came about to lose the faith they were brought up in. I remember my thought process pretty clearly. It went something like this: Every religion seems to think it has the correct answer. However, there doesnt seem to be anything special about any one religion that would elevate it above others. I don't see a reason god would reveal himself to Hindus over say Christians (why not do it at the same time to everyone rather than in a specific geographic location at a specific time). No religion is special, so all religions are similarly incorrect.

At least, that was it in the 7th grade. Since then I've refined my thought process some.

That was more or less my thought process as well. As I moved away from having vaguely Christian beliefs (and I would never have described my faith as being particularly strong to begin with), I became interested in other religions. Despite liking certain aspects of them (namely Buddhism), I simultaneously grew into a skeptic, and over time the idea of the supernatural in general just became less and less believable/appealing. By the time I started going to a Baptist high school in my sophomore year, most religion just started to look more like wishful thinking, with the desire for there to be "more" to existence, rather than having any kind of meaningful correlation to reality. This usually led to the typical, "if you don't believe in god, then do you not believe in anything?" question, which always infuriated me. I knew that I basically had the exact same sense of wonder, or whatever you want to call it, that religious people did, I just didn't tie it up with belief in god or the supernatural. To me, the simple fact that there is existence, period, let alone life and humanity and just the incomprehensible scale and scope of the universe, was mind-boggling enough. But at the time that was extremely difficult to articulate to people for some reason, and such a sentiment was often brushed off as me being narrow-minded (which is absurd, considering the mindset of the people that were saying it, but, well, there you go).

Of course it was also usually followed up with, "So do you think life is meaningless?", which was equally aggravating. Apparently the only way for life to have meaning was to have been specifically created by some kind of outside conscious force, and also if you're not immortal, well then there simply can't be any meaning to life. So a lot of that opposition just strengthened my (at time somewhat unfair) distaste for religion.

*Note that I'm not trying to generalize all religious people as being like what I described above, it was just my personal experience with a lot of them, particularly in high school. The fact that so many of these people were also senselessly homophobic and misogynistic on top of it all didn't really help either.

ETA: I think there's an incredible amount of personal, philosophical, historical, literary, anthropological, and even mythological value to gain from virtually every major (and even less major) religion on the planet. It's the idea of trying to enforce those elements on people as a way of life and moral guide, and also the ignorance bred from superstition and supernatural concepts (again, when imposed on reality, like governing a society or raising a child), that bother me, sometimes immensely.

[Gertrude]

I had a conversation with a woman who was visibly shocked that I was an atheist. She asked me what was stopping me from going out and killing someone in the street. Um ... I didn't really have a response because I was shocked myself. So the only thing stopping her from doing the same is because God says not to? That's extremely frightening to me. Right and wrong, good and bad, the meaning of life - these are things that can have answers beyond God and it baffles me that some people can't accept this. In my experience, this is a very small minority, but these people do exist.

I will say that some of the most interesting conversations I have ever had has been about religion, specifically with people of strong faith. Of course, these conversations are with friends I feel safe discussing this with and respect is given to both sides.

[six]

Not to hijack this thread or anything, but I would be interested to hear how people came about to lose the faith they were brought up in.

For me it was a gradual thing, the more I grew up, the more religious beliefs started to feel similar to stories, also because the stories in the bible sounded implausible. On one side I was told to believe in science, that ghosts did not exist, that miracles were impossible, that magic did not exist... Why was religion different? I remember asking my dad about the stories in the bible, and he told me they weren't true strictly speaking, they were metaphors and that we believed in god because we had faith. Trouble is I didn't feel any faith. Also, because my parents followed different religions there was always this unspoken issue. My mum being a Catholic from the south of Italy had this holy cards which she hypocritically only brought out when something when wrong, otherwise she wasn't a practicing Catholic at all. They felt a bit like practicing magic, and I had been taught magic was bollocks.

Growing up I have refined the reason why I'm not religious, but that's how I started to estrange myself from it.

[Duke Skymocker]

I'm an admin on several atheist-run FB pages, and needless to say I get bored sometimes. :devil:

https://www.facebook...&type=3

https://www.facebook...&type=3

https://www.facebook...&type=3

https://www.facebook...&type=3

We (Fucking) Love Atheism

~ Duke Skymocker

[nirolo]

Both of my parents are athiests. Don't ever recall having a discussion about religion while growing up. Also never asked about what happens to people when they die. The default assumption always seemed to be that death is the final stage of existence. Which explain why as a kid, I was always terrified of my parents dying. Looking back, I must've been an annoying little bugger, always made my parents promise to come home before it's dark, and flooded their beepers (hey, remember those?) with messages if they were a minute late.

And boy was I superstitious. I used to have a stack of lucky quarters in my drawer (quarters that I had flipped 3 times and each time came up heads, because ya know, 1/8 is lucky enough) that I would dispense to my parents whenever they went on a business trip, boarded an airplane, or did anything my little brain considered remotely dangerous. Exaggerating here a little, but you get the point. I think I was superstitious because I was scared, and I was scared because in the absence of a higher being everything just seemed so random.

Oh, did I mention I was also scared of ghosts for a not-so-brief period of time? Yep, freaking ghosts. Why do they have to be so freaking intangible and slimy? Why do they only target children and choose to reveal themselves at night? And what is it about the goddamn closet that they like so much? Of course, my dad had a brilliant solution...he decided the best way to get me over my fear is to play me

I was only 6.

I am agnostic, btw.

[Sonic The Hedgehog]

I had a conversation with a woman who was visibly shocked that I was an atheist. She asked me what was stopping me from going out and killing someone in the street. Um ... I didn't really have a response because I was shocked myself. So the only thing stopping her from doing the same is because God says not to? That's extremely frightening to me. Right and wrong, good and bad, the meaning of life - these are things that can have answers beyond God and it baffles me that some people can't accept this. In my experience, this is a very small minority, but these people do exist.

The idea that being an atheist means you have no morals is one I hate and just don't get. I'd like to believe it's a very small minority, like you said, that believe that. But something that bothered me was Steve Harvey made a remark like that not that long ago, and public opinion seemed sympathetic towards him.

He makes the comment around 6 minutes in.

I didn't like how people laughed and clapped after he said it. But then when he started getting criticized for it he appeared in another interview and cried over the fact that some were rightfully calling him a bigot. To top it off he did a third interview on Larry King, and stuck to his guns, saying he won't even associate with an atheist, because to him that means you're stupid. I didn't mean to start a rant on this tangent, but I find it troubling that a celebrity can get away with publicly saying those things, and not really be reprimanded for it. It makes it seem like society agrees with what he said, or at least finds nothing wrong with it.

[Martini Sigil]

I went to catholic grammar & high school... then I read the bible (twice).... now I'm a scathing anti-theist... social satire is how I make my living...now I'm writing my 3rd book, this one about Christian dominionism in the American political system.

[Procrastimancer]

The only person in my family I can remember being religious and actually attending church was my great grandmother, who would occasionally ask me to go along with her on Sundays. For the majority of my childhood, my parents were essentially irreligious. They would go to church with my great grandmother if she asked them to and they'd toss out an 'amen' if someone forced them to say grace, but they never talked about religion and definitely wouldn't have entered a church without outside motivation. I made the decision to start attending church on a regular basis and they didn't argue, but they didn't join me either.

After a year of regularly attending church, I was an atheist (and would eventually learn that apatheist was a better fit). A little later, my grandmother passed away and my mom eventually turned to religion to help her cope with it, though she never embraced it fully. She isn't one for church or prayer, but she'll make you say grace and you better not say the lord's name in vain. That sort of thing. My dad went along for the ride, if only because that was the easiest thing to do. Meanwhile, my siblings, who never went to church on their own or when others asked them to go, are both actively religious and make sure their children go to Sunday school. We're just sort of all over the place.

My parents don't know about my lack of faith. I'm sure they guessed when I all of a sudden stopped going to church, but given the general lack of interest, they may not have. I figure I'll save the revelation for some future Thanksgiving.

[TrueMetis]

I am curious though, for the people who were raised in a household where religion was just totally non-existent, what did you believe while growing up in regards to like, what happens after you die? Surely most kids must ask their parents that question when they're little at least once?

Around 10 I gave some thought to the question of what happens after you die. Came to the conclusion that you simply cease to exist, which unsurprisingly is a frightening conclusion to come to as a child. Never asked my parents about it though.

I was raised without religion, up until part way through elementary school I didn't give any thought to religion. I was quite literally to my mind like Santa Claus. and since I never truly believed in him either finding out people thought this stuff was real was quite a shock. No idea what my father believes, don't really care either, but It turns out my mother doesn't think dinosaurs existed because they're not in the bible. And pointing out the bible is wrong and trying to convince her with evidence doesn't work cause she never completed highschool.

[Warg Arry]

I was raised by Jehovah's Witnesses. Hard core religious fundamentalists. My entire childhood lived and breathed this cult. (There are JW's with different levels of commitment. My family are all about it.)

Sure I believed when I was young. Because it was all I knew. And I was punished for asking questions that lead to thinking outside the religion.

I do remember fairly early on having an issue with what was being taught from the stage. But knew better than to say anything about it. They (at least used to) discourage education. Whenever I complained that I wasn't getting time to do my homework. My father would ask what the point was. Jehovah will be destroying this wicked world any moment now. And what use would a worldly education do me in the new system of things.

We went to meetings (Church) 3 times a week had family bible study 3 times a week and I was forced to go door knocking at least twice a week (On holidays I was made to put in at least 30 hours door to door). On one of those family study nights. We were required to sit at the table and take turns reading the bible out loud and discussing at length what the scriptures meant. (I was mad that I had to read some of that messed up stuff but wasn't allowed to watch Disney movies) Most of the time though we weren't allowed to interrupt the scripture ourselves. The publications of the Watchtower and bible tract society (The corporate name of the JW's) are prized above the bible. As they believe the bible can not be understood with out the Watchtower books and magazines.

I really started to question things. Things like being told that watching Scooby doo or smurfs are inviting demons into the house.

I was told I couldn't be friends with a girl - I got along really well with at school - who wasn't a JW would be destroyed at Armageddon because she doesn't believe in Jehovah. I was punished every time I was caught talking to her.

I was taught that women are lesser beings to men. We weren't allowed to gain "Privileges" in the congregation but we are only useful to God by going door to door selling saving people with the WTBTS publications. Caring for our husbands and raising our children in the ways of the truth.

And the times I was out door to door and a JW would call 'dibs' on a house for after the "End of Times". When the owner of a nice home would declare "I'm not interested". That was taken as a rejection of the truth and their chance to be saved for eternal life on earth. Therefore after Armageddon their homes would be available. I personally found this to be incredibly disgusting.

I also disagreed with their blood policy. But I knew if I was ever in a situation where I needed a blood transfusion. My family would deny me. It was a frightening thought to me. They would happily let me die. Because of how they interpret the bible and they would write it off as a test of their faith. Honestly even though I'm out the thought still scares me that my parents could still somehow intervene.

I got to the point where I hated everything about being apart of the religion but knew if I left I would be disowned and shunned. I became suicidal and got to the point where I either left or died.

I left and am dead to my family.

After much research and soul searching. I am an Atheist.

But the one thing I truly hated as a child was I was never given a choice. I never had the right to think for myself.

So I will not push my atheism onto my sons. But I will not expose them to religion either. They will get plenty of opportunity to be exposed to all different belief systems. And I will be on the side lines encouraging them to ask questions and think complexly.

And ultimately be supportive of the path they choose.

[Stubby]

Thanks so much for sharing that again, WA. :grouphug:

[Francis Buck]

I was raised by Jehovah's Witnesses. Hard core religious fundamentalists. My entire childhood lived and breathed this cult. (There are JW's with different levels of commitment. My family are all about it.)

Sure I believed when I was young. Because it was all I knew. And I was punished for asking questions that lead to thinking outside the religion.

I do remember fairly early on having an issue with what was being taught from the stage. But knew better than to say anything about it. They (at least used to) discourage education. Whenever I complained that I wasn't getting time to do my homework. My father would ask what the point was. Jehovah will be destroying this wicked world any moment now. And what use would a worldly education do me in the new system of things.

We went to meetings (Church) 3 times a week had family bible study 3 times a week and I was forced to go door knocking at least twice a week (On holidays I was made to put in at least 30 hours door to door). On one of those family study nights. We were required to sit at the table and take turns reading the bible out loud and discussing at length what the scriptures meant. (I was mad that I had to read some of that messed up stuff but wasn't allowed to watch Disney movies) Most of the time though we weren't allowed to interrupt the scripture ourselves. The publications of the Watchtower and bible tract society (The corporate name of the JW's) are prized above the bible. As they believe the bible can not be understood with out the Watchtower books and magazines.

I really started to question things. Things like being told that watching Scooby doo or smurfs are inviting demons into the house.

I was told I couldn't be friends with a girl - I got along really well with at school - who wasn't a JW would be destroyed at Armageddon because she doesn't believe in Jehovah. I was punished every time I was caught talking to her.

I was taught that women are lesser beings to men. We weren't allowed to gain "Privileges" in the congregation but we are only useful to God by going door to door selling saving people with the WTBTS publications. Caring for our husbands and raising our children in the ways of the truth.

And the times I was out door to door and a JW would call 'dibs' on a house for after the "End of Times". When the owner of a nice home would declare "I'm not interested". That was taken as a rejection of the truth and their chance to be saved for eternal life on earth. Therefore after Armageddon their homes would be available. I personally found this to be incredibly disgusting.

I also disagreed with their blood policy. But I knew if I was ever in a situation where I needed a blood transfusion. My family would deny me. It was a frightening thought to me. They would happily let me die. Because of how they interpret the bible and they would write it off as a test of their faith. Honestly even though I'm out the thought still scares me that my parents could still somehow intervene.

I got to the point where I hated everything about being apart of the religion but knew if I left I would be disowned and shunned. I became suicidal and got to the point where I either left or died.

I left and am dead to my family.

After much research and soul searching. I am an Atheist.

But the one thing I truly hated as a child was I was never given a choice. I never had the right to think for myself.

So I will not push my atheism onto my sons. But I will not expose them to religion either. They will get plenty of opportunity to be exposed to all different belief systems. And I will be on the side lines encouraging them to ask questions and think complexly.

And ultimately be supportive of the path they choose.

Damn man, intense post, and I truly feel for you. Makes the bullshit I went through in high school seem genuinely trivial. And your final paragraph explains the exact way I want to approach raising my own children (whenever I -- hopefully -- have them) in regards to religion. I hope the very best for you.

[Winterfell is Burning]

Thank you for sharind this, WA. I can't imagine the suffering you must have gone through.

[Warg Arry]

:grouphug: Thanks this boards support has always meant so much to me.

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

I was raised by Jehovah's Witnesses.

<insanity>

Wow. Sorry to hear pretty much all that, although I am amused to think that someone might be calling dibs on my house after the End of Times.

You might want to think about getting an advance medical directive in case you are really concerned about your parents trying to interfere in the event you are rendered incapable of making medical decisions for yourself.

[thecryptile]

I was raised Presbyterian. I don't really go to church anymore save for weddings and funerals. My concept of God is similar to that of the Deists, but it's easier to just tell people I'm an atheist; because if you say you believe in God people automatically assume you are talking about the Abrahamic God.

Warg Arry, that sucks that your family disowned you when you left the faith. My family doesn't let things like religion trump family.

One of my cousins married a Muslim man originally from Egypt, but my super-churchy aunt and uncle are determined to convince him to convert to Presbyterianism by being nice to him. WWJD, and all that. It's kind of funny to watch them, as my cousin's husband is determined to convince his in-laws that Muslims are good God-fearing patriots (IMO because he wants my cousin to convert to Islam).

I will say this about Jehovah's Witnesses, they've done a lot to advance the First Amendment in this country.

I don't know why people fear oblivion. The idea of an eternal Hell is far more disturbing to me than the idea of oblivion.