Hawaii first state to ban plastic grocer bags

[Arkhangel]

Now that this can of worms is opened I have to say that while Solmyr may come off as a little insensitive to the plight of women you may want to re-read the post and consider he was kind of joking around. Your outrage may be a little overblown. I think his larger point is that having to carry bags in warmer environments, particularly in areas where people are not accustom to driving around a lot it is going to require a cultural change. I can assure Solymr that while it may seem like a pain he would likely adapt pretty quickly. I'm the biggest creature of habit I know and I was able to move on with life pretty easily after one visit to the store.

I'm not outraged, I'm amused that it doesn't seem to occur to some people that half the population already routinely carries (hand)bags on a daily basis. It's a funny little insight into the everyday experiences of different genders.

[KiDisaster]

I just keep a couple of those bigger reusable bags in the trunk of my car at all times :dunno:

For those of you who bike or take public transport surely you could toss them in a backpack or briefcase or something else you already carry if putting them in your pocket is too inconvenient? Or stash them in a drawer or something at work so if you decide you need to stop at the shops on the way home you can just grab them? Seems like a non-issue to me. There's so many other options.

[maarsen]

I use my plastic grorcery bags for cat litter disposal. My wife prefers to use paper bags for litter. I see it is six of one and a half dozen of another. Once paper is inside a landfill and cut off from oxygen as I understand it it lasts for eons and as such isn't any different from plastic but is more difficult to get the litter in the bag because the mouth of the bag is smaller than the plastic bags.

Scot, we use compostable bags for cat litter and it does not go to a landfill but to a composting station along with food and yard waste collected in a special bin. Ontario is trying to divert as much waste from landfills as possible. I think Toronto is now picking up plastic bags for recycling along with plastic containers. And yes, I use reusable bags all the time rather than plastic.

[Buckwheat]

Interestingly, in Germany plastic bags have had a bad rap since 30 or more years ago. (One of the earliest publicly visible environmental actions I remember was to sell or give out sturdy shopping bags made from jute fibre with the slogan "Jute statt Plastik").

But despite decades of denigration plastic bags are still not banned. One has to pay (about 10 cents or so) in the supermarket for a real plastic bag but the small flimsy ones for fruit or vegetables are free (and I read that these are the worst if they get into water or where animals might eat them) and so are bigger ones when you go shopping for clothes. Even in the latter case you are always asked if you want a bag so you can be environmentally friendly and refuse or bring your own.

Yup. There is a good poster to raise awareness about that in the Natural History museum in Vienna. There are jellyfishes on one side, and overturned transparent plastic bags floating upside down on the other side, so they look similar to the jellyfishes. By that it is written something like "You can see the difference. A sea turtle cannot." Sea animals eat them and suffocate on them.

I have gotten used to carry a reusable bag with me recently, and it is not a major nuisance at all. They offer plastic bags here, but you have to pay for them especially. You just do not have to pay for the transparent small ones for fruits and vegetables. I am wondering how the use of these can be reduced. Probably by more paper bags?

[Jo498]

As hard as this might be to believe people actually went shopping before there were any plastic bags around and this was also a time when most people did not own cars. There are foldable cloth bags or net-like bags that use less space than a smartphone. I usually simply re-used plastic bags (because I also tended to shop sometimes spontaneously for groceries) and usually always have one or two plastic bags in my daypack or office bag/briefcase.

[White Walker Texas Ranger]

What are the actual environmental benefits? Do they outweigh the costs of people having to buy a new canvass bag x% of the time they visit grocery stores? (x% is the percentage of time people forget to bring their reusable bags with them.) I know that one reusable bag certainly isn't enough for the majority of my trips to the supermarket. I also reuse my plastic grocery bags for everything.

And seriously, not carrying around a handbag is "male privilege" now?

[mormont]

Taking the attitude that having to carry a bag around with you is an unthinkable imposition would be one very small example of male privilege, yes. (Not every use of the phrase indicates deadly serious social concerns.)

Personally, I have one re-usable bag that I carry around and a few more at home. I get the groceries delivered (without bags) but would use the other re-usable bags if I didn't. Each re-usable bag lasts ages: the one I carry around gets used literally daily, for months, before it wears out. Environmentally it's a no-brainer.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Maarsan,

Scot, we use compostable bags for cat litter and it does not go to a landfill but to a composting station along with food and yard waste collected in a special bin. Ontario is trying to divert as much waste from landfills as possible. I think Toronto is now picking up plastic bags for recycling along with plastic containers. And yes, I use reusable bags all the time rather than plastic.

I haven't seen those around here. I have been told cat shit is to full of nasty stuff to make proper compost. I'd love to compost if its possible to do so.

[zelticgar]

My wife and daughters missed the memo on the required handbags. My wife and Solmyr must be kindred spirits. The female contingent of the Zelts carry nothing but phones on them. On the other hand I lug a backpack and lunch bag with all kinds of crap. I should seriously get the backpack fused to my back.

One thing that kind of grosses me out about the canvas re-usable bags is when i put chicken or meat in them and then leave them in the car. I know most of that stuff is wrapped but i still feel like e-coli is lurking in the bags the second the chicken goes in them. I've washed our bags a few times and they seem to hold up okay but as a germ freak I did like the ability to just toss the plastic bags where the chicken and fish were kept. I'm probably being a little too germ freakish but I can image someone who is seriously OCD having issues with having to re-use those bags.

Edited to clarify - chicken and fish come in the house, bags stay in car but have been exposed to chicken and fish packaging.

[Arakan]

Most of us live in free societies so outright banning is never the right way when you want to change social awareness.

Make the people pay for their plastic bags and fine.

[Jo498]

As I understand it one of the main concerns are (especially marine) animals. And of course when peak oil comes around we will need oil for fuel, not bags.

For me the main thing is that it is really easy to reduce and re-use plastic bags, so opposed to having no car or living in a smaller flat or whatever it is no sacrifice worth speaking of. Of course it will not have such an impact as swapping your SUV for a bicycle.

[Fragile Bird]

Maarsan,

I haven't seen those around here. I have been told cat shit is to full of nasty stuff to make proper compost. I'd love to compost if its possible to do so.

Maarsan and I live in the same province. Cat litter and dog poop have been in the composting program in our communities for well over a decade. There are vile things in cow and sheep manure as well, but I buy bags of the composted stuff for my garden. The heat generated by composting and time break down that stuff.

We haven't banned plastic bags, perhaps that may happen one day, but we imposed a 5 cent charge in Toronto, which was hated. The money went to a fund. Then Rob Ford became mayor and proclaimed he would cancel that ridiculous tax. But virtually all stores kept the fee and pocketed the money, on the basis that plastic bags are so harmful to the environment anything that discouraged their use was A Good Thing. Many stores sell sturdy reusable bags, usually for $1. And some of the stores regularly publish the numbers comparing what plastic bag usage used to be compared to what it is now, and use the reduction of hundreds of thousands of bags as part of their advertising when they talk about their store's environmental campaigns.

One of the few major stores that reverted to free plastic bags was Walmart.

ETA: Oh, and the public attitude towards plastic bags turned very quickly once people got used to re-using bags or carrying canvas bags. I always try to keep bags in my car's truck, and get very annoyed when I have forgotten to do so. The chain of grocery stores I normally shop at puts out their boxes for people to use for their groceries, and then we cut them up and put them in the recycling bin. And many stores switched to free paper bags.

[IamMe90]

One of the few major stores that reverted to free plastic bags was Walmart.

What a shocker.

[Lord of Oop North]

Maarsan and I live in the same province. Cat litter and dog poop have been in the composting program in our communities for well over a decade. There are vile things in cow and sheep manure as well, but I buy bags of the composted stuff for my garden. The heat generated by composting and time break down that stuff.

We haven't banned plastic bags, perhaps that may happen one day, but we imposed a 5 cent charge in Toronto, which was hated. The money went to a fund. Then Rob Ford became mayor and proclaimed he would cancel that ridiculous tax. But virtually all stores kept the fee and pocketed the money, on the basis that plastic bags are so harmful to the environment anything that discouraged their use was A Good Thing. Many stores sell sturdy reusable bags, usually for $1. And some of the stores regularly publish the numbers comparing what plastic bag usage used to be compared to what it is now, and use the reduction of hundreds of thousands of bags as part of their advertising when they talk about their store's environmental campaigns.

One of the few major stores that reverted to free plastic bags was Walmart.

ETA: Oh, and the public attitude towards plastic bags turned very quickly once people got used to re-using bags or carrying canvas bags. I always try to keep bags in my car's truck, and get very annoyed when I have forgotten to do so. The chain of grocery stores I normally shop at puts out their boxes for people to use for their groceries, and then we cut them up and put them in the recycling bin. And many stores switched to free paper bags.

Indeed. And I think that even with the fee gone, in Toronto, the majority of people are still using the canvas bags. Not sure about in the 905.

[Dr. Pepper]

For those who are spontaneous shoppers, I would think carrying around a reusable bag would probably be the most ideal. Want to stop at a bookstore and then head to buy a new shirt and then grab a bag of apples all on the way home? Super easy to just load it into one bag that is so much easier to carry than several plastic bags. Just put the bag in your pocket. Whining that it won't fit doesn't work, I just checked and mine fits snuggly in my wallet.

[Free Northman Reborn]

Ok, so I am fully in favor of a plastic bag ban. My first thought, however, was that the intention would be to replace them with brown paper bags at the checkout counter.

All this talk of carrying around some kind of reusable bag on your person has me a bit confused, (and alarmed). Is the intention to remove all types of disposable bags from points of sale, or merely to get rid of plastic bags in favor of something that degrades in a matter of months rather than centuries, but is still available at the checkout counter?

[Fragile Bird]

The reusable bags come in two categories: natural fibers that will rot when eventually worn out, and likely are recyclable as well, and heavy plastic that will last for years and are made from 100% recycled material that can be recycled when worn out.

[zelticgar]

The plastic bags are being replaced by canvas reusable bags. In my experience the stores are reluctant to provide paper bags. I could be wrong but the vast majority of cases are handled by offering reusable canvas or cloth bags (which absolutely do not fit in pockets or wallets no matter how well you fold them).

One irony of the recent craze for canvas bags is that I now have over 100 in my house and cars. At some point I'll clean house and throw about half of them away today but i have no idea whether i can recycle them or just dump them in the trash...

[Free Northman Reborn]

Re-using a bag for different kinds of shopping - including various foodstuffs - over a period of months doesn't sound like the most hygenic of practices. Guess next up you're gonna have to start washing your reusable shopping bags as well.

I am all for environmentally friendly options. As long as they are disposable. This reusable crusade is not for me.

[Larry of the Lawn]

What are the actual environmental benefits? Do they outweigh the costs of people having to buy a new canvass bag x% of the time they visit grocery stores? (x% is the percentage of time people forget to bring their reusable bags with them.) I know that one reusable bag certainly isn't enough for the majority of my trips to the supermarket. I also reuse my plastic grocery bags for everything.

And seriously, not carrying around a handbag is "male privilege" now?

The environmental benefits are massive - for one thing they fuck up recycling systems because they get caught up with the newspaper, and also they end up in the ocean and animals get tangled in them, the break down and act as sponges for heavy metals and get into the fish food pyramid, etc. And even if you don't want to buy a couple reuseable bags (is it really such a hassle?) you can just bring the shit out to your car in a cart. Or if you're on your bike, you should probably already have another bag because putting a couple plastic bags on each handlebar is a recipe for disaster.

Not directed at bearxhin, but this issue is such a fucking no brainer, sorry the convenient thing that was around before turned out to be a big fucking problem, instead you can just do a couple easy things to not worry about it. Throw a few bags in your fucking car or on your bike. Or just fucking tough it out and carry a pile of shit home. It's not that big a deal.