[BOOK SPOILERS] Discussing Sansa II

[Mladen]

Hello again, welcome to the second edition of Discussing Sansa thread dedicated to the full comprehension of Sansa`s character in GoT TV show

Before I start, I would ask all those who haven`t read the books and who doesn`t want major spoilers to be revealed, to stop reading any further.

The last thread, opened after episode 7 can be found here: [bOOK SPOILERS] Time to seriously discuss Sansa

On the last thread, several questions have been raised and I`ll list them below:

Sansa`s character suffered a great deal due to less important character. This discussion was the fiercest one. On one hand, several posters claimed that Sansa, as one of the major POV characters in ASOIAF deserves better treatment from producers and not to be equalized with unimportant characters like Talisa, Ros, Shae and Ygritte or even characters that hasn`t even appeared in SOS, like Theon. Furthermore, it was discussed whether Sansa`s chapters are just window to KL`s politics, or are they serving for something more. When producers decided to deepen many characters such as Joiffrey, Margaery, Olenna, it is a question how all those wonderful scenes GRRM has written for Sansa`s character are missing from the show.

Forced vs. arranged marriages. Before anything and due to sensible nature of this question, I would ask all of you to restrain from any political messages and agendas. Also, I would also ask of you to be polite in regard of this matter. Sansa/Tyrion`s wedding that we have seen in this episode has been discussed for so long, further more we transferred the story from literature to politics analyzing forced vs. arranged marriages. And although our perspective is somewhat different on the matter, and we understand that neither of these marriages is completely done with consent of both parties, it is very important to make difference between arranging a marriage and forcing someone to marry.

Male perspective on Sansa. If you ask anyone who is their favorite character on the show, and who is the star of it, you`ll have one answer – Tyrion. Due to brilliance of GRRM`s writing, enchanting charisma of Peter Dinklage and obviously great fondness of producers for the character, it became strange to watch how this marriage hurt Tyrion and not Sansa. Since everyone are talking about sacrifice Tyrion has to make to wed Sansa (strangely everyone have forgotten that she was the one losing everything and that Tyrion could only have benefited from this marriage.), one thing became certain. Producers have completely abandoned the given material aka ASOIAF and started a new form in which Tyrion practicly became Prince Charming of Westeros.

Sophie Turner as Sansa. If almost all of us can agree upon one thing it is that young Miss Turner managed to do the best out of very little she was given, and that most of us agree she is perfect Sansa.

Due to my residence, I`ll be watching the episode somewhat later, but I ask of you freely to start a debate over Sansa in this episode. Also, and please remember this, I`ll personally report each post that is offensive to anyone. If you can`t debate politely and on civilized way, than please stop discussing.

For the end, the usual questions. What do you think of Sansa in this episode? Has the wedding and bedding lived up to their book counterpart and are you satisfied with how the things turned out to be for Sansa?

P.S. My opinion will follow as soon as I watch the episode. Thanks for understanding.

Here`s OP`s REVIEW OF SANSA`s WEDDING AND BEDDING

[sansatyrell]

I'm so so so so mad that they made Sansa kneel for Tyrion. It was HUGE in the books when she didn't. Honestly, it probably spared her even more hate from the fandom, because she'd have been called a bitch even more than she usually is, but still. I can't believe they made her kneel.

[RedBean]

So the one scene I was actually looking forward to, the one scene where Sansa finally has the guts let her feelings known about the wedding to everyone in proximity, is the one scene they decide to cut out. Excuse me while I go scream into my pillow.

[RedBean]

I'm so so so so mad that they made Sansa kneel for Tyrion. It was HUGE in the books when she didn't. Honestly, it probably spared her even more hate from the fandom, because she'd have been called a bitch even more than she usually is, but still. I can't believe they made her kneel.

It wouldn't have made her seem so much like a bitch if they hadn't insisted on white-washing Tyrion so much that he hardly even resembles the character he is in the books.

[Greyjoy67]

Really, really not bothered by this change.

Sorry purists. Sansa's feelings are pretty well established, I don't think her kneeling (eventually, I might add) is some kind of character assassination. Geez.

[Broken Fox]

I see zero difference between book Sansa and show Sansa.

[Greyjoy67]

I don't think it would have worked in the show. It just seems a really odd thing to be, I quote one poster, "livid" about .

[teemo]

Well....it was a way to help prevent fans from HATING Sansa for being mean to the series hero. I think to compensate for not doing it the original way they didn't go to the extreme and have her happily kneeling. The way they filmed it it seemed to me that Sansa wasn't even paying attention to Tyrion. Like he was trying to do it and she didn't realize it (hence all the laughing) and then was like, "yeah whatever." In the books it was more of an act of defiance. I really liked that scene in the books, but plenty of viewers already loathe Sansa. And Tyrion is sooooooo whitewashed. They really backed themselves into a corner.

[TNine]

They wrote themselves into a corner with that scene, by making Tyrion too sympathetic in general, and striving too hard to make Sansa's life as pleasant as possible. They needed to either make it clear that Sansa's perspective was reasonable, make Tyrion a little less sympathetic to her, or make Sansa not kneel.

I'm happy that they have enough respect for Sansa as a character to make sure she doesn't come off as a huge bitch, even as i am sad that they aren't willing to adapt it to make her seem more defiant against Tyrion. It surprises me, since she does flat out tell to Tyrion to die in the BotBW, but i can see them not willing to risk fan blowback.

[Garlan Marius]

So the one scene I was actually looking forward to, the one scene where Sansa finally has the guts let her feelings known about the wedding to everyone in proximity, is the one scene they decide to cut out. Excuse me while I go scream into my pillow.

I'm no purist, but this is the one scene I needed to see as it was in the book. What a terrible change.

It wouldn't have made her seem so much like a bitch if they hadn't insisted on white-washing Tyrion so much that he hardly even resembles the character he is in the books.

This as well. I love me some book-Tyrion. He's a beautifully-done grey character that one can empathize with but also condemn. There's nothing about show-Tyrion that we can condemn; he's some unlikely hero, an avatar for the disadvantaged (perceived or not) to project themselves onto. He needs his flaws. He needs Singer Stew, which seems like the only saving grace for his characterization.

[sansatyrell]

I see zero difference between book Sansa and show Sansa.

lol I mean, the kneel was a huge difference. thank god they still had her say "what if i never want you to" when tyrion said he wouldn't touch her until she wanted him too. <_<

[piratesswoop]

I can't believe how much they've built Tyrion up as some perfect, ideal husband. Sansa smiling as she walked with him to the sept? Come on....

[Ran]

It's a bad change that again diminishes the character -- it took a great deal of guts to show even that much defiance -- but a direct consequence of their making Tyrion more of a heart-of-gold type. Shame.

[Dr. Pepper]

Ok, it's not so much Sansa that bothers me. It's the characters around her. She never would have kneeled, but there also wasn't a stool that was taken away moments before. There is so much Tyrion whitewashing going on.

I don't really have any cohorent comments. I just found myself becoming a book purists for the very first time. The entire wedding just rubbed me the wrong way.

[go joff go]

They just couldn't do it. I liked that she didn't kneel but, but people wouldn't have forgiven her. And thats a fact since we have a legion of book fans who despise her. GRRM never intended for her to receive the hate she did so I just can't get mad when they temper the things she did. If she hadn't kneeled it would have looked like an FU to Tyrion not the Lannister.

[Greyjoy67]

I can't believe how much they've built Tyrion up as some perfect, ideal husband. Sansa smiling as she walked with him to the sept? Come on....

I think you're exaggerating greatly. Perfect, ideal husband....... the guy gets drunk as fuck and is informed by Sansa that she'll probably never "want" him.Think a few people on here think they've turned him into Gandhi or something.

[Broken Fox]

lol I mean, the kneel was a huge difference. thank god they still had her say "what if i never want you to" when tyrion said he wouldn't touch her until she wanted him too. <_<

Like an earlier poster said her feelings towards the Lannisters are quite evident at this point. Not kneeling would just make her look like an asshole, especially after the conversations she's had with Tyrion. I get that that's a result of Tyrion getting whitewashed but whatever, I don't think it's that serious. Not kneeling doesn't make or break her character.

[Garlan Marius]

I think you're exaggerating greatly. Perfect, ideal husband....... the guy gets drunk as fuck and is informed by Sansa that she'll probably never "want" him.Think a few people on here think they've turned him into Gandhi or something.

Yeah, that conversation with Margaery about how great a guy he is and how Sansa should be happy about the whole situation never happened.

[Greyjoy67]

Yeah, that conversation with Margaery about how great a guy he is and how Sansa should be happy about the whole situation never happened.

And the viewer should trust everything Margaery says amirite?

It's just treating the viewers as stupid to assume that they just accept Tyrion as a "good guy". And if they are stupid enough, they'll be in for a nice few surprises next season anyway.

[Minsc]

Like an earlier poster said her feelings towards the Lannisters are quite evident at this point. Not kneeling would just make her look like an asshole, especially after the conversations she's had with Tyrion. I get that that's a result of Tyrion getting whitewashed but whatever, I don't think it's that serious. Not kneeling doesn't make or break her character.

It is called dropping that conversation and increasingly play up how it is his family not size/appearance that she doesn't want.