Hardhome Vs Blackwater

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

Blackwater resolved the Stannis/Lannister conflict, this battle was different it didn't resolve the conflict, it basic established the WW as the threat in a way that was absolutely convincing, this wasn't a battle, it was a rout.

And it forces to viewer to realize that the petty squabbles south of the Wall means nothing, and that Dany and her dragons better get in the fight or else humans have no choice. It works in a way that ties all the plots together because this is an existential threat. It basically sets up the show for the next 2 seasons. I think it succeeds in all those things.

[ummester]

Blackwater for me. I agree with Ran on Hardhome, excessive CG skeletons lets it down and the shows CG budget obviously isn't big enough to reach the fullness of their vision. Full points for effort and having such a grand vision, though.

[aFeastForDragons]

Yeah, swarms of zombies don't really do it for me. More of the slow zombie type, myself. The Harryhausen-esque skeletal wights they introduced last season actually get on my nerves a bit, they're so weightless as they bounce around.

+1

Although in the first very episode the opening scene had 28 days later style zombies sprinting through the woods.

The Moria Goblin Zombies attacking the gate made this really cringey for me. I couldn't get into the battle until the WW showed up.

[MoIaF]

Blackwater resolved the Stannis/Lannister conflict, this battle was different it didn't resolve the conflict, it basic established the WW as the threat in a way that was absolutely convincing, this wasn't a battle, it was a rout.

And it forces to viewer to realize that the petty squabbles south of the Wall means nothing, and that Dany and her dragons better get in the fight or else humans have no choice. It works in a way that ties all the plots together because this is an existential threat. It basically sets up the show for the next 2 seasons. I think it succeeds in all those things.

Well said, especially the bolded.

[Red Tiger]

I've always thought that slow zombies looked dumb. If they are so slow, why are they supposed to be so scary if they can be easily outrunned? Being fast is consistent to the strength the wights are supposed to have both in the books an in the show. If they are much stronger than a living human, why can't they move their legs faster than a living human as well? That said, I have to agree with you that I'm not a fan of the skeletons, either.

I agree

[King Tyrion I]

Blackwater resolved the Stannis/Lannister conflict, this battle was different it didn't resolve the conflict, it basic established the WW as the threat in a way that was absolutely convincing, this wasn't a battle, it was a rout.

And it forces to viewer to realize that the petty squabbles south of the Wall means nothing, and that Dany and her dragons better get in the fight or else humans have no choice. It works in a way that ties all the plots together because this is an existential threat. It basically sets up the show for the next 2 seasons. I think it succeeds in all those things.

That's a good intake.

Basically, you can't compare these two battles. In terms of CGI, yes. In terms of acting. But not in terms of the issues.

[Ran]

+1

Although in the first very episode the opening scene had 28 days later style zombies sprinting through the woods.

Those were White Walkers, though, not wights.

[Talleyrand]

I enjoyed it. Still not sure how I feel about the Wights being so much weaker now. I mean Jon had to burn down a tower to kill one and Jeremy Rykker beheaded one and it still disemboweled him now it just seems that one stab/arrow does it for them.

[Lord Neddard Stark]

Blackawater was cool, I liked the Watchers on the wall episode because they finally did the Nights Watch storyline justice. This however is probably one of the best episodes of the show they've made... there just too much to fanboy over. Tormund Giants Bane cutting down fools like a Viking god, Jon Snow facing off with a White Walker and killing it with Longclaw. and that's based solely on the last 20/30 minutes of the episode.

[AlpenglowMemories]

I enjoyed it. Still not sure how I feel about the Wights being so much weaker now. I mean Jon had to burn down a tower to kill one and Jeremy Rykker beheaded one and it still disemboweled him now it just seems that one stab/arrow does it for them.

That was my problem as well. The wights just felt like cannon fodder for our heroes, if not for their overwhelming numbers. If they were in their thousands and very difficult to take down, I think that would have been scarier.

I also admit that I was a bit disappointed by the White Walkers as well. I guess I just expected more - which is my fault, I know, not the shows - and was hoping we'd get to see them in action properly. We only really got one fight with Jon which, despite the really cool entrance, wasn't all that great, and one or two throw away shots of them in the slaughter.

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

Also I think the frenetic cuts and the confusion in the wildlings ranks works for the mood this episode is supposed to convey. Like I said this wasn't a battle as much as it was a rout, the wildlings are supposed to be panicked and scrambling and they are supposed to be utterly in disarray.

[marsyao]

For many show-watchers (including myself), the Battle at Castle Black failed to match Blackwater as a fight sequence. However, I actually think Hardhome definitely challenges Blackwater despite only being half as long on screen.

Thoughts?

How the Hardhome even could remotely match to black water? When I was watching the black water episode, I have not yet read the book, it was such a thrill experience to me, and until the last moment, I have no idea what would go down, now when I was watching the hardhome episode, I too have no idea what is in store, but everything is so predictable, as soon as I saw Jon arrived in Wildling's camp, I immediately know the white walkers would atack, and Jon would try to save them, and when I saw that white walker, I immediately know Jon would be the second "slayer", there was no surprise at all

[pettes]

How the Hardhome even could remotely match to black water? When I was watching the black water episode, I have not yet read the book, it was such a thrill experience to me, and until the last moment, I have no idea what would go down, now when I was watching the hardhome episode, I too have no idea what is in store, but everything is so predictable, as soon as I saw Jon arrived in Wildling's camp, I immediately know the white walkers would atack, and Jon would try to save them, and when I saw that white walker, I immediately know Jon would be the second "slayer", there was no surprise at all

As you said yourself you read the books now so you know Jons gonna make it, Its a different type of weiving.

I think this episode is the best episode in this show. I read the books after last season so I had no idea what was coming then, but even though I knew Jon was going to survive this time I was still sitting on the edge of my Chair for Tormund, Edd and Wun Wun. This season has been a huge dissapointment for me but the last Three episodes has given the books and the show more justice and i realy hope the remaining two will be as great as this episode.

[marsyao]

As you said yourself you read the books now so you know Jons gonna make it, Its a different type of weiving.

I think this episode is the best episode in this show.

There is nothing to do with whether I have the read the book, you only need to watch a few Hollywood action movies to know exactly what it will go down in this battle.

[Theda Baratheon]

This felt so much more important than Blackwater. I loved blackwater; excellent episode and I LOVED the fight at Castle Black (actually surprised a lot of people are being so negative about it)

But this felt...so much bigger than anything we've seen before in terms of what the Others can DO, this wasn't a fight to just save one CITY this was a battle where it was humanity vs the Others and that was fucking AWESOME.

I am sooooooo ready for some fucking ice spiders to be honest with you.

Blackwater did have the excellent scenes woven into it though, Cersei and Sansa, Cersei and tommen, Sansa and the Hound. Those scenes were better than what we got this episode in my opinion, but the battle itself was probably better in Hardhome.

I for one fucking loved the zombie horde tbh. And holy hell the NK staring Jon down at the end as he raises the newly dead...

COME AT ME CROW

[RoamingRonin]

Would you care to elaborate? The implication that people who liked Blackwater more are not readers?

Nope. That's just how I personally felt as a book reader. If I didnt read the books, I wouldnt be able to yell "theory confirmed!" or get all the references Hardhome made -- that's what made me really like this episode.

[aFeastForDragons]

Those were White Walkers, though, not wights.

The dead Wildlings that were in a pattern all got resurrected and chases the Night Watch brother through the woods.

[Hangover of the Morning]

Blackwater by a long shot. It had so many iconic moments from drunk Cersei, Tyrion's speech to Hound quitting. So much tension as well as so much fun.

The whole Hardhome scene was just meh. It was so predictable and laden with cliche tropes from start to finish and some of the dialogue was a bit cringy. Didn't understand why they didn't run onto the boats as soon as the WW showed up or why they didn't use fire to their advantage.

[Tharvot]

For many show-watchers (including myself), the Battle at Castle Black failed to match Blackwater as a fight sequence. However, I actually think Hardhome definitely challenges Blackwater despite only being half as long on screen.

Thoughts?

The battle at the Wall FAR exceeded the Blackwater battle IMO. The dropping of the scythe itself was better than anything that happened at Blackwater. Hardhome was easily the coolest battle scene of the show so far though.

[Esa1996]

Hardhome was probably my favorite scene of TV ever, so I'd have to rank it before BW. I'm somewhat with Ran on the wights though. I prefer the slower type of zombies.