HBO's Westworld(v3)- The man in black fled across the desert, and we all followed. [spoilers]

[Theda Baratheon]

2 minutes ago, red snow said:

That and the whole - she's wearing clothes in those scenes. it never happened in the premier or whenever Ford talks to her, suggesting it's either before they had the "undressed" rule or it's a dream-interview. then there's the practicality of how he seems to interview her when she's sleeping in the same camp as William.

I agree. If there's multiple time-lines it feels inevitable that William is MiB. Otherwise William just happens to be having the kind of experience the MiB claims to have had when playing Westworld. Not impossible - they could just be establishing the addictive qualities of the park. I can't see how the writers could resist telling MiB's origin if some of the story is in the past.

I actually liked the idea of the dream interface kind of thing, but now i'm really preferring it being Arnold and that Bernard is based on Arnold which I have thought for a while. 

[Cas Stark]

Only 2 more episodes to go, right?  So we're not getting a robot uprising this season, not enough time.  We will get some kind of big reveal to prove or disprove something and set the stage for whatever the next step of the journey is..... and ERW said it would be heartbreaking....so that worries me.  The show is already heartbreaking.

[Theda Baratheon]

12 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Only 2 more episodes to go, right?  So we're not getting a robot uprising this season, not enough time.  We will get some kind of big reveal to prove or disprove something and set the stage for whatever the next step of the journey is..... and ERW said it would be heartbreaking....so that worries me.  The show is already heartbreaking.

3 episodes. 

8, 9, 10. 

Not sure what they'll be doing in the last three but that's enough time to do quite a bit yet...

[red snow]

11 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Only 2 more episodes to go, right?  So we're not getting a robot uprising this season, not enough time.  We will get some kind of big reveal to prove or disprove something and set the stage for whatever the next step of the journey is..... and ERW said it would be heartbreaking....so that worries me.  The show is already heartbreaking.

I think that might be more us discovering how Delores has possibly/probably gained sentience before and Ford has reset/buried it. Maybe all the hosts became sentient in the "Arnold incident" and they all lost? That would be pretty sad to know they've achieved sentience and failed before as it makes us less confident they'll succeed this time around.

[Astromech]

1 minute ago, red snow said:

I think that might be more us discovering how Delores has possibly/probably gained sentience before and Ford has reset/buried it. Maybe all the hosts became sentient in the "Arnold incident" and they all lost? That would be pretty sad to know they've achieved sentience and failed before as it makes us less confident they'll succeed this time around.

I read a quote somewhere (can't find it atm) where Nolan was discussing the Turing Test and how scary it would be were an android/robot to intentionally fail the test. Dolores lying to Ford or Bernard, I believe, in one of the earlier episodes made me think of that discussion.(the episode in which she killed the fly)It may have been on reddit. Dolores may have everyone fooled. The same may apply to Maeve.

[Cas Stark]

4 minutes ago, red snow said:

I think that might be more us discovering how Delores has possibly/probably gained sentience before and Ford has reset/buried it. Maybe all the hosts became sentient in the "Arnold incident" and they all lost? That would be pretty sad to know they've achieved sentience and failed before as it makes us less confident they'll succeed this time around.

I definitely think thats what we will find out....maybe not all of the hosts but many of them, certainly Delores.  But if we're seeing past Delores with William then it's going to be tricky to resolve that back to present day Delores since we haven't seen her in a long time except that maybe the Hopkins convo was current Delores, but all the rest is her w/William so if there are two timelines....dunno, gets very complicated to make it work satisfactorily,

[Theda Baratheon]

I just trust the show, whatever they do, to do things well. They haven't showed anything to negate that belief so far so whatever they do, it'll be handled cleverly. 

[red snow]

21 minutes ago, Astromech said:

I read a quote somewhere (can't find it atm) where Nolan was discussing the Turing Test and how scary it would be were an android/robot to intentionally fail the test. Dolores lying to Ford or Bernard, I believe, in one of the earlier episodes made me think of that discussion.(the episode in which she killed the fly)It may have been on reddit. Dolores may have everyone fooled. The same may apply to Maeve.

The episode where Ford interviewed her ended with her saying "he doesn't know" (or something to that effect). So I think "current" her is better at hiding it. Like you said she could "harm a fly" (although I sort of feel it would be ridiculous if they couldn't kill any living thing).

Although it might be even more heartbreaking to think Delores has become aware again and living through those cycles and remembering them all.

I hope we get to see Teddy awaken as I feel kind of bad for him in the sense he's a "good guy" doomed to fail. Although it looks like Ford's new background for him has unleashed him somewhat. I like the "no more mr nice guy" Teddy.

36 minutes ago, Theda Baratheon said:

I just trust the show, whatever they do, to do things well. They haven't showed anything to negate that belief so far so whatever they do, it'll be handled cleverly. 

The recent episode has me leaning towards trusting them too.

I just hope if they are doing timelines they don't chain themselves to the idea like "lost" did. I still like the idea of Maeve in the real world as a way of expanding the show.

It's curious as to how they'll progress as it sounds like the delays in the show were largely due to them working out how to make the show a multi-season rather than stand-alone show.

I'd also almost forgotten that we now have sci-fi on HBO

[Jaxom 1974]

Anyone else think the very final scene of the season will reveal exactly how and where Westworld fits into the actual real world?  

 

[dooog]

3 hours ago, Theda Baratheon said:

There can still be two timelines and NOT have William as MiB. I believe we might have been seeing multiple timelines in the show; doesn't mean I think MiB = William. 

There could be but I don't see this happening.  If you've seen the movies Nolan's co written with his brother, The Prestige, DKR and Interstellar you see a recurring formula. A twist(s) at the end which had blatant clues early on and everything wrapped up with a neat little bow by the end. They obviously won't wrap everything up since it's a telly show, but I believe the MIB theory coming good will be this season's closure, or at least a significant part of it.

 

[Gertrude]

5 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

But if we're seeing past Delores with William then it's going to be tricky to resolve that back to present day Delores since we haven't seen her in a long time except that maybe the Hopkins convo was current Delores, but all the rest is her w/William so if there are two timelines....dunno, gets very complicated to make it work satisfactorily,

The scenes are edited very strangely sometimes. When Dolores is talking with Lawrence's daughter or when she is on the train with Lawrence and William, there are short scenes of her without those people in the background where you'd expect them. It could be that Dolores is reawakening and retracing her steps from the last time this happened to her. But yeah, it's tricky.

The biggest stumbling block to the William = MiB theory seems to be the scene in which the deputy tries to apprehend her to get her back on her loop. Stubbs is the one who sent him out and William is the one who stops him. If it is present Stubbs sending out a deputy, and a past deputy that we see, then we never saw a present day attempt at apprehending her. If that were the case, I'd think we'd be hearing more about Dolores going rogue. On balance, however, I'm still on board.

I think there are going to be people on each side of the fence that are going to feel a little tricked when it all plays out, but I think mainly that I'm cool as long as it's a good story.

eta: and the Gunslinger coming back to life would be super cheesy

[Arch-MaesterPhilip]

I watched Mystery Science Theater 3000 religiously and as a result of basking in the cheesiness I would love for him to reactivate and either get shot immediately or just fall apart. 

[unJon]

18 hours ago, Theda Baratheon said:

 

Something is bringing people toWestworld, but only a FEW people...40k a day is only basic fees...go to the westworld website and try and book yourself a holiday and you'll see it's almost 1 million for your vacation. 

This isn't your standard theme park, we know that, but it's only for the 1 percent. No one else can afford to go there. No wonder they're losing money 

The "losing money" line was in the William storyline. No hint in the "prestent day" story line that it's a money loser. In fact Ford is spending a ton of money on a new story line and no one has mentioned that the company can't afford to spend that money. I think that's further evidence for the two timeline theory. 

[Arch-MaesterPhilip]

7 minutes ago, unJon said:

The "losing money" line was in the William storyline. No hint in the "prestent day" story line that it's a money loser. In fact Ford is spending a ton of money on a new story line and no one has mentioned that the company can't afford to spend that money. I think that's further evidence for the two timeline theory. 

Yeah, I think Logan and William are from Delos and are the money men Arnold wanted to keep out. 

[red snow]

19 hours ago, Theda Baratheon said:

@karaddin

 

Something is bringing people toWestworld, but only a FEW people...40k a day is only basic fees...go to the westworld website and try and book yourself a holiday and you'll see it's almost 1 million for your vacation. 

This isn't your standard theme park, we know that, but it's only for the 1 percent. No one else can afford to go there. No wonder they're losing money 

I've discussed this before but you're assuming 40K has the same value today as it does in the future (I don't even think they said it was dollars). Obviously that line is meant to make us think it's expensive but I wonder if it's really as expensive as being more than an average salary per day? I think it's more likely to be in the $4000 a day realm which is still cutting out most people but could still appeal to a large market. It's the kind of shit people would save up for.

[Fragile Bird]

I am leaning towards the idea Felix and Sylvester are both robots, based totally on their names.

I mean, for crying out loud, Felix and Sylvester are famous cats. I can really see Ford, playing a behind-the-scenes game of cat-and-mouse with his secret bots, naming these two oafs after cats just to amuse himself.

If you search names like Bernard, Dolores and Maeve, you can find they are all mouse characters in books or films, but I don't think any of them are all that famous.

[Theda Baratheon]

6 hours ago, red snow said:

I've discussed this before but you're assuming 40K has the same value today as it does in the future (I don't even think they said it was dollars). Obviously that line is meant to make us think it's expensive but I wonder if it's really as expensive as being more than an average salary per day? I think it's more likely to be in the $4000 a day realm which is still cutting out most people but could still appeal to a large market. It's the kind of shit people would save up for.

No I'm not 

I know 1 million in the future isn't going to be the same as 1 million now but whatever inflation, I doubt it's crazy enough to turn 1 million today into PETTY cash by then 

[Theda Baratheon]

I'm counting on at least one of my theories or thoughts being right otherwise I'm going to feel so defeated by you all lmao I feel like a crazy underdog

[Fez]

15 hours ago, Theda Baratheon said:

I just trust the show, whatever they do, to do things well. They haven't showed anything to negate that belief so far so whatever they do, it'll be handled cleverly. 

I don't trust them, not after Interstellar; though tbf I don't know if Joy was involved in that or if it was just Nolan. But still, to me that means Nolan is perfectly capable of badly screwing up a reveal/ending. I hope that isn't the case here, but we'll still.

[HexMachina]

1 hour ago, Fez said:

I don't trust them, not after Interstellar; though tbf I don't know if Joy was involved in that or if it was just Nolan. But still, to me that means Nolan is perfectly capable of badly screwing up a reveal/ending. I hope that isn't the case here, but we'll still.

The Bernard reveal was handled very well though. Enough clues dropped that it wasn't completely out of the blue, but still shot very nicely so that it was satisfying and surprising. I have faith.

full disclosure, I've not seen Interstellar