Spiderman: Homecoming

[AverageGuy]

Why does Peter have so many toys from really old movies?

[The Anti-Targ]

5 hours ago, Rhom said:

It has, but its still part of the teenage experience for a lot of people and speaks to the inner outcast in all of us.   

I will say that this was another place I thought Garfield's Peter got things mostly right.  He was definitely a loner in high school and never quite fit in, but he wasn't the object of Flash's bullying.  He actually stepped in when others were being bullied.  So he wasn't necessarily the object of scorn the way Maguire and Holland are.

There is something a bit incongruous about Peter Parker still being meek and lacking self confidence after he's had his powers for a while and he's hung out with the Avengers. Unless he's keeping it up as an act.

I like the bit in the trailer where he's holding the ship together, or trying to, as that is a great demonstration of his strength level, which is higher than anyone currently on the avengers aside from Hulk, Thor and the Iron Man suit.

[mormont]

2 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

I like the bit in the trailer where he's holding the ship together, or trying to, as that is a great demonstration of his strength level, which is higher than anyone currently on the avengers aside from Hulk, Thor and the Iron Man suit.

And the Vision.

[polishgenius]

Yeah, what he's basically demonstrating there is higher strength levels than everyone on the Avengers without strength-based superpowers.

[The Anti-Targ]

11 hours ago, mormont said:

And the Vision.

I thought The Vision was mostly energy stuff not physical strength. According to the strength scale Wikia spider man is stronger. But only recently apparently after reality had been altered(??)

[Which Tyler]

11 hours ago, polishgenius said:

Yeah, what he's basically demonstrating there is higher strength levels than everyone on the Avengers without strength-based superpowers.

Isn't Cap strength based then?

 

[The BlackBear]

Cap is technically just beyond peak human. But he clearly is super strong.

[Which Tyler]

Technically by film or by comic?

[The BlackBear]

I'm going by comic. But I'm pretty sure it's the same idea in the films. Cap is basically just your generic super soldier.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

He runs at around 40mph and holds a helicopter down in CW. Bit more than "just beyond peak human" if you ask me.

[The BlackBear]

8 minutes ago, Stannis Eats No Peaches said:

He runs at around 40mph and holds a helicopter down in CW. But more than "just beyond peak human" if you ask me.

That's my point, he does stuff like that in the comics, but on paper and according to all the experts, he's just meant to be at the peak of human potential.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

4 minutes ago, The BlackBear said:

That's my point, he does stuff like that in the comics, but on paper and according to all the experts, he's just meant to be at the peak of human potential.

Fair enough. It's probably better to just not question his powers; his shield is already inconsistent enough.

[red snow]

17 hours ago, mormont said:

And the Vision.

And Scarlet Witch doesn't need to have super strength as she can lift things with her hex/energy bursts.

Spidey should be able to bench press more than Cap though (although I agree his strength is more than peak human irrespective of how often they claim it). I don't think a human has ever been able to kick someone so that they leave the ground and fly across a parking lot.

There was a great moment in the Spidey comics (when Dr Octopus had control of Peter's body) where he punched someones jaw off, suggesting spidey threw his punches when dealing with standard foes for fear of killing them.

[Knight of Ashes]

24 minutes ago, red snow said:

And Scarlet Witch doesn't need to have super strength as she can lift things with her hex/energy bursts.

Spidey should be able to bench press more than Cap though (although I agree his strength is more than peak human irrespective of how often they claim it). I don't think a human has ever been able to kick someone so that they leave the ground and fly across a parking lot.

 

Well, there was a very noticeable increase in Cap's strength level in Winter Soldier compared to his first and the Avengers' first movie.  Chris Evans asked Whedon to take that into account in AoU.  May have increased further in Civil War 'cause Spidey might have a hard time holding back a helicopter too.

[Knight of Ashes]

3 minutes ago, Leap said:

 

How strong is Vision? I can never really get a read on that guy. 

 

I have some vague memory of reading in an old issue of Handbook to the Marvel Universe that he can lift around thirty tons.  But this issue came out years ago before he got dismantled and a bunch of other shit.

[briantw]

On 12/9/2016 at 6:50 PM, The BlackBear said:

The spider appears to work as a button to loosen the suit, that seems problematic in a fight. Anyone hits him in the chest and the suit just falls off him.

I'm assuming that the suit is something designed by Tony Stark, so it probably only loosens if Spider-Man himself touches it.  I'm sure there's some sort of fail safe in there to prevent an enemy from punching him and opening the suit.

[The Anti-Targ]

1 hour ago, briantw said:

I'm assuming that the suit is something designed by Tony Stark, so it probably only loosens if Spider-Man himself touches it.  I'm sure there's some sort of fail safe in there to prevent an enemy from punching him and opening the suit.

As long as it doesn't take the mask off, and PP doesn't have any easily identified moles on certain parts of his anatomy I can see it being a great comedic injection mid-fight some time. Spidey gets super-punched in the middle of the chest, Spidey goes flying backwards, but his suit stays put. Jumps up with his mask still on and only wearing boxer shorts. 

Next day, Happy turns up with an "upgraded" suit.

As to strength levels Cap is beyond peak human strength because of the super soldier serum. So he can lift weights that no human could possibly lift through intense diet, exercise and use of "normal" performance enhancing drugs like testosterone and human growth hormone. According to the Strength Scale Wikia Cap is at the bottom of the super human strength scale at 1-2 tons. Spidey is currently in the 70-90 ton range.

Vision is in the 25-50 ton range.

Groot is >100 tonnes and possibly incalculable, so basically in the same place as Hulk, Thor and the Iron Man suit.

Captain (Ms) Marvel is close to Spidey. 

Actually, Ant Man in his giant state is stronger than Spidey. But that's not his normal state.

[red snow]

5 hours ago, Knight of Ashes said:

 

Well, there was a very noticeable increase in Cap's strength level in Winter Soldier compared to his first and the Avengers' first movie.  Chris Evans asked Whedon to take that into account in AoU.  May have increased further in Civil War 'cause Spidey might have a hard time holding back a helicopter too.

I actually think that played to Winter Soldier's strength as we got something along the lines of Bourne/Taken combat but with a "better than a human but not hulk" power level. I also agree that Cap was a bit redundant in Avengers as a "human" we had to rely on gags and his leadership/personality to carry him. It's just silly if they maintain he's a "peak" human. Although I think this is something 99% of viewers don't even bother getting upset about.

If spidey is almost managing to keep a ship together I think he could handle a helicopter.

Given Stark gets such a big part in the spidey film, it's a shame we don't get to see him with Cap. I guess Civil War makes that tricky but I'd love some more scenes with Spidey and Cap. I feel like their sense of heroism and "doing what's right" is far more in line with that of Stark.

[The Anti-Targ]

17 minutes ago, red snow said:

I actually think that played to Winter Soldier's strength as we got something along the lines of Bourne/Taken combat but with a "better than a human but not hulk" power level. I also agree that Cap was a bit redundant in Avengers as a "human" we had to rely on gags and his leadership/personality to carry him. It's just silly if they maintain he's a "peak" human. Although I think this is something 99% of viewers don't even bother getting upset about.

If spidey is almost managing to keep a ship together I think he could handle a helicopter.

Given Stark gets such a big part in the spidey film, it's a shame we don't get to see him with Cap. I guess Civil War makes that tricky but I'd love some more scenes with Spidey and Cap. I feel like their sense of heroism and "doing what's right" is far more in line with that of Stark.

No doubt they are holding a bit back from the audience. And I would not be surprised if Cap makes an appearance. Particularly if Cap realises how powerful Spidey is, he might want to have some counterbalancing influence over him and not just let Stark indoctrinate him in the Stark-view of the Avengers. It would actually add a really nice layer into the movie having 2 competing father figures vie to influence the attitude Peter Parker takes to his super-heroism. It's the story within a story thing Sony can do now that they have access to other Marvel heroes. And it is interesting that Uncle Ben seems to already be dead, so that father figure and voice of wisdom and guidance from previous Spidey movies is already out of the picture.

And given the fight at the airport, and that Spidey was able to effortlessly catch Bucky's metal fist mid-punch, and it was really only giant Ant man and Wanda who were capable of keeping Spidey from running through the entire renegade team, Cap should have a very good idea how powerful Spidey is.

[RumHam]

36 minutes ago, red snow said:

Given Stark gets such a big part in the spidey film, it's a shame we don't get to see him with Cap. I guess Civil War makes that tricky but I'd love some more scenes with Spidey and Cap. I feel like their sense of heroism and "doing what's right" is far more in line with that of Stark.

There was a rumor a while back that Steve Rogers would have a cameo. As you said Civil War makes it tricky. Unless it's just a post-credits "Tony won't let you join the official UN run Avengers but how about suiting up with me" thing.