What should Dany do with the Slavers after the ballte of fire?

[aventador577]

We know, that the winning side of the battle for Meerren wins everything and the loser will lose everything, at least in slaver's bay. So, let's ausume that Dany's forces win the battle for Merreen.

What is the best way forward to abolish slavery?

How should she deal with the reamining slavers?

How should she deal with Yunkai?

[rotting sea cow]

36 minutes ago, aventador577 said:

 

We know, that the winning side of the battle for Meerren wins everything and the loser will lose everything, at least in slaver's bay. So, let's ausume that Dany's forces win the battle for Merreen.

What is the best way forward to abolish slavery?

A continent wide, from Qarth to Pentos, military campaign aimed to curb both offer and demand. Slavery won't end in the wide world but in Western Essos is achievable and can be enforced by a combination of Dothraki new cultural values, R'hllor-ism and empowered freedmen.

36 minutes ago, aventador577 said:

How should she deal with the reamining slavers?

How should she deal with Yunkai?

Yunkai slavers are done for good. But slave trade is not confined to Slaver's Bay

[Aline de Gavrillac]

52 minutes ago, aventador577 said:

 

We know, that the winning side of the battle for Meerren wins everything and the loser will lose everything, at least in slaver's bay. So, let's ausume that Dany's forces win the battle for Merreen.

What is the best way forward to abolish slavery?

How should she deal with the reamining slavers?

How should she deal with Yunkai?

Slavery is the greatest crime committed by man against man.  Abolishing the practice should be top priority.  Winning the Battle of Fire is only one step in the process that began when Daenerys took Mereen.  Many of the former masters will accept the new laws abolishing slavery but there will be others (similar to the KKK in the Americas) that will continue their underground battle to bring it back. 

1. Win the Dothraki over and make them end their role in the slave trade. 
2. Execute every known member of the terrorists group, the Harpy.
3. Slowly transition the economy to agriculture and fishing. 
4. Bring Varys over to Slaver's Bay and put him in charge of rooting out those who are working to bring back slavery.

Ending the slave trade will be the finest Targaryen achievement to date and would overshadow Aegon's own conquest of Westeros. 

[Curled Finger]

33 minutes ago, Aline de Gavrillac said:

Slavery is the greatest crime committed by man against man.  Abolishing the practice should be top priority.  Winning the Battle of Fire is only one step in the process that began when Daenerys took Mereen.  Many of the former masters will accept the new laws abolishing slavery but there will be others (similar to the KKK in the Americas) that will continue their underground battle to bring it back. 

1. Win the Dothraki over and make them end their role in the slave trade. 
2. Execute every known member of the terrorists group, the Harpy.
3. Slowly transition the economy to agriculture and fishing. 
4. Bring Varys over to Slaver's Bay and put him in charge of rooting out those who are working to bring back slavery.

Ending the slave trade will be the finest Targaryen achievement to date and would overshadow Aegon's own conquest of Westeros. 

Looks like you've given this some thought.   I'm thinking there is a reason we were told about the war of the Nine Penny Kings beyond the obvious.   That heads of state in Essos aligned themselves to the Blackfyre claim indicates there is something for the Essosi to be won in Westeros.   Slaves are the thing that immediately comes to mind.    I like your reply and in no way hope to disparage your plan.  I would simply enjoy further elaboration and throw a few of my own thoughts in on them.   How could anyone but Dany win over the Dothraki, who are slavers themselves?  They aren't an enormous community.  Their history is long and rich and proud.  Their ferocity is certainly something to consider, but there has to be a way to bring the Dothraki around to disavowing their entire heritage for this to work.   Is there no other culture that could enforce the rule?  We have to keep in mind that Slavers Bay is a pretty broad area encompassing Volantis.  I read there are slave armies and compulsory service in some of the Essosi countries.   They are prohibited from maintaining their own military.  From the Unsullied to the lowest sell sword company, there is much strife among the countries comprising Slavers Bay.

Back to the War of the Nine Penny Kings...it's occurred to me that the Sons of the Harpy are actually throwbacks from the Nine Penny Kings effort.   Surely any slave master would be opposed to Dany, but Hizdar brings a 90 day peace--presumably from much higher up the power pyramid than he sits.   He knows who the Harpy is.  Could it be the Harpy is a Blackfyre?  In truth the masters should have been taken out immediately after Dany conquered Mereen, but she offered them peace which we see plainly and decisively backfire on her.  We got to sit in on a few of the audiences she granted.  Master or slave, they still couldn't get along.   The masters are crucial to the old economy--how do you convince any of them that they can attain or maintain their wealth by alternate means?   Of course, in a brave new world I suppose a case could be made for a new way of life with the slaves at least.

I rather like Varys in Kings landing and hope to see more of him there.   I get your meaning, Dany needs a Master of Whispers to keep tabs on the unrest.  The Battle for Mereen will either be important or more hopefully not, to Dany upon her return.   In fact, I hope she doesn't return at all and just gets moving the hell out of Essos.   Once the battle is fought, the dead are counted and the survivors conspire to escape I hope it is the last we see of Mereen.   Dany doesn't really have any business there.    Her attempts to rule failed and these are not her people.    

[Lollygag]

Slavery is one reason that I’m struggling with the whole Essos storyline. Maybe because I’m American, I can’t grasp that absolutely everyone is an unrepentant slaver who has no twinges of moral regret at all. During the American Civil War, there was a full spectrum of beliefs on slavery both in the North and in the South. Based on this, I’d say Dany should weed out the unrepentant slavers from the slavers who are morally conflicted and give them an alternate means of making a living.

But Essos’ lack of moral conflict on the slavery issue looks to be based more on Rome. I’m not very knowledgeable on Rome, but it seems slavery rose with the rise of the Roman city-state, and slavery declined as the various Barbarian tribes began to eat away at Rome’s power, resulting in the decline of the city-state. Slavery seemed to rise again with the rise of British and Spanish Mega-Empires. Based on this (possibly wrong) assumption that slavery rises with the rise of city-states and large Empires, should Dany destroy the city-state model of government?

 

[Good Guy Garlan]

As long as rich economies like Qarth, Volantis, etc, keep buying and selling slaves, the trade won't remain truly dead in SB. She could execute all the slavers (which would be counterproductive, for several reasons) and still there'll be people like Cleon the Butcher creating his own Unsullied.

What she needs to do, first and foremost, is to leave her own people in charge with a suitable force to make sure another fiasco like Astapor doesn't happen again. She does have to publicly execute every member of the Sons of the Harpy, as a deterrent to more underground subversive groups.

49 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

Slavery is one reason that I’m struggling with the whole Essos storyline. Maybe because I’m American, I can’t grasp that absolutely everyone is an unrepentant slaver who has no twinges of moral regret at all.

Agreed. 

[Makk]

Dany isn't actually there so it is unlikely whoever is commanding there will do anything radical (unless Tyrion gets in control somehow).

Slavery in the US took a very, very long time to be abolished, even when many people thought it was wrong, and it wasn't all that long ago. I'm not sure why people expect it to happen so quickly here or have trouble understanding the economics that drive it. George wants to show how difficult it is, going around killing every "Harpy" is a terrible idea, all that does is creating more hatred when you have already forced them to change their entire perspective on life.

You have to make peace and develop an alternative economy, and she was originally doing a decent job in Mereen. I do think she should have advanced on the Yunkai and hit them on the march however, they were an invading army and she would be well within her rights to do so. By letting them advance they pillaged the country and she badly needed the land for agriculture and trade. Even if it was a risk she needed to fight them sooner.

[Renly's Banana]

Nothing she does will end slavery there. Not in her lifetime. Like Garlan said, so long as rich and powerful cities keep demanding slaves, there will always be a supplier, be it in Astapor or the Dothraki or even pirates. Volantis alone seems to function exclusively on slavery. She would bankrupt herself over a whole lifetime trying to fix this one issue. If I were Daenerys, I would instead

A: Promptly sack Yunkai to the bone of every single valuable in there, then tear the city down brick by brick until it's a ruined shell. 

B: Install a council of trusted leaders in both Meereen and Astapor to uphold my law against slavery. And obviously fully expect this to not last more than a year. But that's okay, because by then I would have 

C: Sailed the absolute hell out of Slaver's Bay with all the riches I plundered from Yunkai and Meereen towards Westeros. I am but a young girl and know little of the ways of slavery, but I'm out. Peace.

[Lollygag]

Maybe try to work with the Iron Bank, the FM, and the Braavosi in general. It would surely be a very awkward alliance given their history with Valyrians and dragons, but they'd also be the only ones Dany could completely trust to stay true to the mission.

Just brainstorming here: Most of the slaves seem to believe they have no influence on their own circumstance. A lot of the Freefolk from Hardhome were captured enslaved, which I suspect will not go over well with them.  How many were captured and where were they going? Mixing a lot of Freefolk into the slave population may spawn slave revolts depending on how the circumstances pan out. Tyrion has a history with Wildlings, as does Jorah. That may turn into something.

[The Mountain That Flies]

The best long-term way to abolish slavery for good in the area would be for Dany herself to stay and help develop a new economy. Her persona unites her followers, and with the right mind giving her points to follow (i.e. Tyrion), she could lead them to adapt their work habits to a more fair balance of communal labor/profit sharing.

We've been given a clear example of what happens if she tries to leave others in charge (Astapor). When a system is that rotten, it requires close attention over a long time to fix.

[Lord Lannister]

Eternally banish them into the plothole from whence they came.

[Dorian Martell's son]

10 hours ago, aventador577 said:

 

We know, that the winning side of the battle for Meerren wins everything and the loser will lose everything, at least in slaver's bay. So, let's ausume that Dany's forces win the battle for Merreen.

What is the best way forward to abolish slavery?

How should she deal with the reamining slavers?

How should she deal with Yunkai?

1: Kill everyone on the entire bay 

2: See number 1 

3: see number 2 
 

[Magnar of the Dreadfort]

1 2 & 3 Fire and Blood

She won't succeed in abolishing slavery . But turning slavers bay into a smoking ruin filled wasteland certainly hinders it. 

 

[aryagonnakill#2]

Don't you mean Tyrion?

[SeanF]

3 hours ago, Magnar of the Dreadfort said:

1 2 & 3 Fire and Blood

She won't succeed in abolishing slavery . But turning slavers bay into a smoking ruin filled wasteland certainly hinders it. 

 

That's the likeliest outcome.  She'll probably be leading a huge host into Western Essos on the way to Westeros, who will slaughter opponents who resist.

[The Commentator]

20 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

A continent wide, from Qarth to Pentos, military campaign aimed to curb both offer and demand. Slavery won't end in the wide world but in Western Essos is achievable and can be enforced by a combination of Dothraki new cultural values, R'hllor-ism and empowered freedmen.

Yunkai slavers are done for good. But slave trade is not confined to Slaver's Bay

Slavery of one kind or another still exists in our world today.  So putting a stop to slavery everywhere on Planetos is an impossible task.  With that said, it is an obligation to stop it whenever and wherever one can.  And only Daenerys Targaryen can do this.  She is similar to Havilland Tuff in some ways.  They both have the power to enforce change and while the complexity of the world prevents any solution from being perfect for everybody all of the time, one should always strive to improve upon the current situation.  No solution will please nor benefit everyone.  The world is just too complex. But it doesn't mean that one should not try.  I believe the author himself has come to realize that and will take the primary protagonists in his story, Daenerys Targaryen, on a similar character growth.  A hero's journey, if you will.

There will be strong resistance to the abolishment of the slave trade for many years.  The war against slavery will continue and secret, evil organizations like the harpies will continue the fight to bring it back.  I don't think any amount of negotiation will convince them to give up slavery.  Slavery represents more than business.  It is also a culture that sets the masters above the slaves and puts them in a position of social superiority.  The most resistant will have to be killed.  The ones more open to reason should be kept under supervision and any infraction severely dealt with.  

All those criticizing Daenerys for not putting together a "replacement economy" in place before taking down slavery are kidding themselves. You cannot build an economy in a short  period of time.  And yet, it is extremely stupid to suggest waiting.  Every day that slavery is allowed to continue, many thousands suffer and die.  The problem at Slaver's Bay are completely the fault of the former slave masters for refusing to do the right thing and allow slavery to end.  It is the harpy and the former masters who are preventing the transition of the economy to something else.  If the harpy and the former masters would cooperate, a new economy based on non-human trade could develop over time.  Instead of blaming Daenerys, fans should be blaming the masters for wanting to hang on to their old way of life.  There is enough wealth in the bay to carry the cities through until new businesses could be developed.  

By the way, Westeros will be faced with a similar situation when winter comes.  Agriculture will stop.  How will the Westeros people survive with nothing to trade?  I think the author is preparing Daenerys and her administration to handle just such a crisis.  

[rotting sea cow]

2 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

Slavery of one kind or another still exists in our world today.  So putting a stop to slavery everywhere on Planetos is an impossible task.  With that said, it is an obligation to stop it whenever and wherever one can.  And only Daenerys Targaryen can do this.  She is similar to Havilland Tuff in some ways.  They both have the power to enforce change and while the complexity of the world prevents any solution from being perfect for everybody all of the time, one should always strive to improve upon the current situation.  No solution will please nor benefit everyone.  The world is just too complex. But it doesn't mean that one should not try.  I believe the author himself has come to realize that and will take the primary protagonists in his story, Daenerys Targaryen, on a similar character growth.  A hero's journey, if you will.

There will be strong resistance to the abolishment of the slave trade for many years.  The war against slavery will continue and secret, evil organizations like the harpies will continue the fight to bring it back.  I don't think any amount of negotiation will convince them to give up slavery.  Slavery represents more than business.  It is also a culture that sets the masters above the slaves and puts them in a position of social superiority.  The most resistant will have to be killed.  The ones more open to reason should be kept under supervision and any infraction severely dealt with.  

All those criticizing Daenerys for not putting together a "replacement economy" in place before taking down slavery are kidding themselves. You cannot build an economy in a short  period of time.  And yet, it is extremely stupid to suggest waiting.  Every day that slavery is allowed to continue, many thousands suffer and die.  The problem at Slaver's Bay are completely the fault of the former slave masters for refusing to do the right thing and allow slavery to end.  It is the harpy and the former masters who are preventing the transition of the economy to something else.  If the harpy and the former masters would cooperate, a new economy based on non-human trade could develop over time.  Instead of blaming Daenerys, fans should be blaming the masters for wanting to hang on to their old way of life.  There is enough wealth in the bay to carry the cities through until new businesses could be developed.  

By the way, Westeros will be faced with a similar situation when winter comes.  Agriculture will stop.  How will the Westeros people survive with nothing to trade?  I think the author is preparing Daenerys and her administration to handle just such a crisis.  

Agreed, across the board. As I say before, I think the red priests will play a fundamental role in enforcing the abolition and maybe also the Dothraki.

As we see with Braavos, slavery is not necessary for an advanced economy. Even the Ghiscari claim that they became slavers after Valyrian destroyed their economy, making their sin even worse.

[Lord Lannister]

If you radically and violently change a culture and economy overnight, prolonged bloodshed will happen for a long time. Reactions provoke counter reactions and more blood is spilled with each one. There is no perfect solution, in ending the evil of slavery, Dany's embracing the evil of massacre's and bloodshed.

[Lollygag]

11 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

If you radically and violently change a culture and economy overnight, prolonged bloodshed will happen for a long time. Reactions provoke counter reactions and more blood is spilled with each one. There is no perfect solution, in ending the evil of slavery,

Agree.

But given Dany's epiphany that she's a conqueror and not a ruler, I suspect that she'll do just that and destroy the slaver cities, telling them more or less rebuild how you want but if there's slaves, I'll be back. Then she leaves for Westeros thinking the problem is solved. Dany's lesson to learn is that things are more complex than what "Fire and Blood" can solve.

She's been drawn repeatedly to the slavery issue while delaying her return to Westeros. Part of me doubts that she'll stay in Westeros given that there are no slaves. Suspect that counter revolutions will pull her back to Essos in the end.

[Lord Wraith]

5 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

Agreed, across the board. As I say before, I think the red priests will play a fundamental role in enforcing the abolition and maybe also the Dothraki.

As we see with Braavos, slavery is not necessary for an advanced economy. Even the Ghiscari claim that they became slavers after Valyrian destroyed their economy, making their sin even worse.

You do know the Red Priests have and use slaves. The idea that everyone is going to give up slaves willingly and without a fight is hilarious. Especially the Dothraki.