S. OF HOUSE STARK

Is Sansa threatened by Ayra?

135 posts in this topic

There is more Sophie giving her warped views on the reunion with Arya. Claiming there is tension between them but I clicked off and I don't know where she went with it. 

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30 minutes ago, The Bastard of Summer said:

Umm I didn't read anything postive in the look that Sansa gave as she looked down upon Brienne and Arya. If she was shocked I didn't get that from the look. So maybe Sofie needs to work on her shocked look? I don't know exactly what to call that look but as I said I don't believe it was anything positive. Worry? Maybe. She might be a bit worried that her name could possibly be on that hit list. After all when Sansa asked her who all was on the list, Arya gave a smirk and just said "most of them are already dead." Maybe Sansa is worried that Arya put off killing Cersei to come and kill her...Why would Sansa be on Aryas list? Maybe because she's a liar? Maybe because she thinks Arya petty and holds a grudge because Sansa didn't stick up for her. She betrayed the pack......

Sansa has been a submissive to her family's enemies and her palling around with Littlefinger does not look good either.

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2 minutes ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

Sansa has been a submissive to her family's enemies and her palling around with Littlefinger does not look good either.

This is very true! She's got LF all holed up in their family home. Arya knows LF isn't right she heard and saw him buddy-buddy with Tywin at Harrenhall. This could be a small problem between the Stark sisters (which I don't think will last long) plus LF knows of the letter Sansa was forced to write Robb naming him traitor and professing her fealty to Joffery.

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I think it's a look of surprise / confusion (that she hides well because she learnt from Cersei), annoyance that Brienne is not just hers (Brienne gives her a sense of physical security and power), envy that she could not do that herself or be so empowered, as well as a feeling of disappointment - I mean the family she missed so much turn out to be complete weirdos.

I don't think the discord is that serious though or as bad as people made out - you can see how happy she is when each sibling returns and how protective she is of them when they speak about the dagger and Littlefinger.  

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Also if I had to go with worried I'd say it's cause LF is kinda in her head. He just told her to fight all battles in her mind think of every possibility so she won't be surprised. If she is worried I think she just was a bit shook because she sees Aryas skill and over thought the monent maybe thinking she might be on that list. Also Briennes look said confused to me. Confused then sad.

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I'm not sure it was shock exactly. When Arya first mentions the list Sansa laughs thinking it silly. Then bran says something in the wood and she has a look, maybe starting to take it more seriously. Then she sees Arya fight and is probably realizing nothing silly in the list and Arya has skills. I'm betting she encourages Arya to go to KL for Cersei. LF last week reminded Sansa that Cersei is still a problem, her and Arya both want Cersei dead and now she's realizing Arya may be able to do it. 

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Posted (edited)

It seemed to me like she was threatened and it also seemed to me that Sansa feels like her name may be on Arya's list.  

Edited by SerJeremiahLouistark

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1 hour ago, Punting on the Honeywine said:

I think it's a look of surprise / confusion (that she hides well because she learnt from Cersei), annoyance that Brienne is not just hers (Brienne gives her a sense of physical security and power), envy that she could not do that herself or be so empowered, as well as a feeling of disappointment - I mean the family she missed so much turn out to be complete weirdos.

I don't think the discord is that serious though or as bad as people made out - you can see how happy she is when each sibling returns and how protective she is of them when they speak about the dagger and Littlefinger.  

This. Going back home is a silver line of  all Startk's children journeys. But after getting home they have to deal with things they didn't expect, first of all with each other. 

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5 hours ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

It seemed to me like she was threatened and it also seemed to me that Sansa feels like her name may be on Arya's list.  

Sansa might be shocked but I don't know why Sansa thinks she'd be on Arya's list. Arya clearly knows she was held captive by the Lannisters rather than supporting them willingly and the show removed the bit in the books with Sansa betraying Ned to Cersei and getting the Stark household slaughtered. (Which Arya wouldn't know anyway). So unless Sansa's worried that Arya is still bitter enough over the Trident/Joffrey/Mycah incident to kill her or thinks that Arya has gone evil, it doesn't make sense she'd jump to "Arya wants to kill me"

6 hours ago, Punting on the Honeywine said:

I think it's a look of surprise / confusion (that she hides well because she learnt from Cersei), annoyance that Brienne is not just hers (Brienne gives her a sense of physical security and power), envy that she could not do that herself or be so empowered, as well as a feeling of disappointment - I mean the family she missed so much turn out to be complete weirdos.

I don't think the discord is that serious though or as bad as people made out - you can see how happy she is when each sibling returns and how protective she is of them when they speak about the dagger and Littlefinger.  

Adjustment to all her siblings coming back different and possible envy over Arya's skills seems most likely. Problem is I think Sophie played it so weirdly and looked disapproving to lead the audience into thinking that Sansa could betray her family - which the behind the scene stuff is pushing hard - rather than a logical character reason. (Starkbowl really doesn't make sense at this point and is probably a red herring).

A lot of stuff this season seems driven by Doylist/external reasons rather than logical character motivation. (Cersei somehow winning constantly to raise tensions, Daenery's refusing to attack KL to keep the war plot going, Nymeria leaves Arya probably because of lack of budget for direwolves, Sansa still hangs around LF and acts shady to keep the audience guessing).

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Sansa can't suffer that someone is better than her. She could suffer Jon being the better fighter because come on, Jon is a man and he is older and he's been doing this for years. 

Then Arya comes along who is a girl and younger and she can judge the skills of guards better than her, she can fight like a boss and she is "savvy". So once again Sansa can't feel superior as the (politically and blacksmithically and Littlefingerically) savvy person. Because Arya is as good or maybe even better? 

And sansa is still, after everything, a selfish, conceited piece of shit. And this bothers her. 

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Yes, Sansa, like any rational human being, is extremely threatened by the thought of her little sister turning into a super-assassin who has no remorse about killing multiple people.  I don't think there's anything more to it than that.  She spent this entire show looking to reunite with her family and the only one who seems remotely similar to what she remembered is Jon Snow, the guy who came back from the dead.  Of course Sansa is concerned with Arya's path.  

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Posted (edited)

26 minutes ago, RhaenysB said:

Sansa can't suffer that someone is better than her. She could suffer Jon being the better fighter because come on, Jon is a man and he is older and he's been doing this for years. 

So, she can't suffer that Arya is better in something that Sansa was never interested in and Arya was? O...K...

20 minutes ago, Tagganaro said:

Yes, Sansa, like any rational human being, is extremely threatened by the thought of her little sister turning into a super-assassin who has no remorse about killing multiple people.  I don't think there's anything more to it than that.  She spent this entire show looking to reunite with her family and the only one who seems remotely similar to what she remembered is Jon Snow, the guy who came back from the dead.  Of course Sansa is concerned with Arya's path.  

Amen. Of course she would be freaked out... Look at what her family, the very same family she idolized, turned out to be :D 

We only need Lady Stoneheart for circus to be complete.

Edited by Risto

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I don't believe it was a feeling of being threatened, but more shock and awe that her little sister is now a trained fighter/killer - she's likely pieced together all the hints and parts in her head. Where has she been all these years? Where did she learn these skills? What is this list and how many people have you killed? Though all the Stark children are different to before they were separated, Arya, like Jon and unlike Bran, is still 'sane' and family. I don't believe she feels threatened, simply shocked her sister is a serial killer.

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Posted (edited)

Lady Sandra feels threatned by everyone, first Jon, then Bran and now Arya. She doesn't trust any of them to do what she thinks should be done. She desires power, she adores being the Lady of Winterfell, unlike her brothers who dont want to rule and almost run away from it at every chance.

I think LF will manipulate Sansa and Arya to create conflit and Sansa will feel threatned untill Bran makes her listen to reason and tell her to calm down.

Sandra is destined to be the one who keeps the Stark line alive. Bran cant have kids(probably going to die), Arya never wanted kids(probably going to die), Jon is a bastard/Legitimized Targaryen (probablly going to die). She is the only one left, she allways wanted to be a Lady of the Castle and have kids...

She's not the hero we wanted... it's kinda sad...

Edited by Ser Yorick Ampersand

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I don't think we'll actually see the Stark line continue unless there is a sequel.

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34 minutes ago, Risto said:

So, she can't suffer that Arya is better in something that Sansa was never interested in and Arya was? O...K...

She can't suffer that Arya is better at anything when it's "her time" to be the boss. But what's the Sansa-supporting explanation for her reaction to Arya/Brienne training session? I'm open to all points of view. 

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1 minute ago, RhaenysB said:

She can't suffer that Arya is better at anything when it's "her time" to be the boss. But what's the Sansa-supporting explanation for her reaction to Arya/Brienne training session? I'm open to all points of view. 

Well, nothing that we have seen or heard on TV or from the cast and producers would indicate that your POV is any valid whatsoever. Actually I find ridiculous to argue that Sansa is jealous because Arya is better in an activity she never pursued or was interested in. 

As for my opinion on the subject, I find that the scene served for Sansa to actually see that what she so easily disregarded in the crypts, Arya's list, may not be as naive and foolish, as she originally thought. I find her reaction to Arya killing someone stupid, given the fact she killed Ramsay, but then again, it is just me. I see Sansa being confused, impressed and slightly worried. Believe it or not, not eveyone is so happy with their little sister being ninja killer. 

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9 hours ago, DutchArya said:

Why would she be worried that she has to share Brienne? That's not what that expression looked like to me and many others. That just sort of set the tone really, she literally huffs off and even Brienne drops her smile. 

It might be worth checking in with D&D to shed some light:

 

 

I was really bothered by this scene. I had trouble understanding her reactions too. I understand what people are saying in this thread for reasons, yet it didn't track properly for me. The fact I couldn't work it out and apparently after coming on here a lot of others cant either and that we need to check in with D&D for me speaks volumes that something was not right about the scene, or the objectives Sophie chose to play didn't give a clear understanding for the audience.

I don't see Sansa being overly jealous re Arya and her assassin skills. Yet I initially decided to go with ' well that must be what it is ' then switched to ' no doesn't fit for the character ' . Maybe she is concerned for Arya ?? I didn't really pick that up based on Sophies reaction either.

 

Anyway, I do not want a Starkbowl and I hope the Starks do something about LF, I think he is going try to play them off against one another or cause some conflict but I feel they've all been through too much to allow LF to get between them.

I hope Arya kills him.      

 

 

8 hours ago, The Bastard of Summer said:

Umm I didn't read anything postive in the look that Sansa gave as she looked down upon Brienne and Arya. If she was shocked I didn't get that from the look. So maybe Sofie needs to work on her shocked look? I don't know exactly what to call that look but as I said I don't believe it was anything positive. Worry? Maybe. She might be a bit worried that her name could possibly be on that hit list. After all when Sansa asked her who all was on the list, Arya gave a smirk and just said "most of them are already dead." Maybe Sansa is worried that Arya put off killing Cersei to come and kill her...Why would Sansa be on Aryas list? Maybe because she's a liar? Maybe because she thinks Arya petty and holds a grudge because Sansa didn't stick up for her. She betrayed the pack......

This was the problem. It started out as mild amusement and moved into .... I'm not sure !? I think the problem is not entirely Sophies - although it is the job of the actor to ' tell the story ' even without dialogue. Maybe there was some narrative missing that needed to happen before or after the scene to further explain Sansa's inner turmoil here.   

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Posted (edited)

I think Sansa's expression was shock and disappointment. I think she was definitely jealous when Arya pointed out Brienne had sworn to protect them both. She thinks of Brienne as her personal bodyguard. I think it also led her to question Arya's motives. When they were first reunited, Arya admitted to her list and then laughed it off like it was a joke. I think now that Sansa knows it is true and is watching Arya use her skills, she feels like that was dishonest of Arya to laugh it off and feels betrayed by them both for those various reasons. I think after all she has been through, (and Littlefinger's influence) Sansa is mistrustful of everyone, and she could see Arya as having lied to her already.

Edited by DesertRose

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16 minutes ago, Illiterati said:

I don't think we'll actually see the Stark line continue unless there is a sequel.

This may very well be the case, though I think there's still a chance the Stark bloodline will continue through Sansa and/or Arya, but the Stark name is going to end. There are no males to continue the Stark name and unlike today's society where some women choose to keep their own name after marriage that just doesn't happen in a feudal society. 

 

 

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