Lady Fevre Dream

[Spoilers] Rant and Rave Without Repercussion

915 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, WSmith84 said:

That doesn't really explain why others, such as the Northern lords and Cersei, treat Jon like his shit doesn't stink. Cersei tried to extract an oath from Jon, citing that as Ned's son he'd never betray an oath, while at the same time knowing full well that Jon had abandoned the Wall and been crowned King, thus breaking an oath that is punishable by death.

Exactly. Even if they've decided that being a Night's Watch deserter isn't a capital crime, it's still a major taboo that will mean people should at best tolerate him despite his desertion, not say 'Oh he's the son of Ned Stark hurr durr what an honourable lad', even when you're, you know, Cersei Lannister, a woman who hates everyone enough that she basically shrugged off her son's suicide as him 'betraying' her.

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3 hours ago, WSmith84 said:

That doesn't really explain why others, such as the Northern lords and Cersei, treat Jon like his shit doesn't stink. Cersei tried to extract an oath from Jon, citing that as Ned's son he'd never betray an oath, while at the same time knowing full well that Jon had abandoned the Wall and been crowned King, thus breaking an oath that is punishable by death.

Who do you think treats Jon in a way that can't be explained by their immediate self interests? 

The Northern Lords could have treated Jon like a deserter but then they would have had to have been okay going with Sansa a girl right after a major battle that eliminated the Boltons. Its not clear that was obviously a better route to go down at the time for them. 

Cersei could have also treated Jon like shit. But her goal was to get the North not to interfere in her fight with Dany. Would treating Jon negatively have helped with that or achieving her immediate goal of acheiving an armistace with Dany? 

 

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1 hour ago, jcmontea said:

Who do you think treats Jon in a way that can't be explained by their immediate self interests? 

The Northern Lords could have treated Jon like a deserter but then they would have had to have been okay going with Sansa a girl right after a major battle that eliminated the Boltons. Its not clear that was obviously a better route to go down at the time for them. 

Cersei could have also treated Jon like shit. But her goal was to get the North not to interfere in her fight with Dany. Would treating Jon negatively have helped with that or achieving her immediate goal of acheiving an armistace with Dany? 

 

She's happy to treat Daenerys like shit even though she aims for an armistice with her, and repeatedly in the past she treated the Tyrells, who Tywin had informed her were their most crucial allies at that point, like shit because, you know, Margaery was actually loved by the people.

Cersei has had no qualms fucking up diplomacy in the past, hell, she's recently blown up the equivalent of the Vatican in a primarily 'Catholic' region with no realistic consequences, and the Tarlys practically flocked to her, so why the fuck would she care about actual diplomacy? The universe is clearly going to make her survive no matter what, so what does she have to gain by being nice to Jon?

Precisely nothing, but because Jon Snow is D & D's creator's pet, no-one can go two scenes without sucking Jon's 'pecker', as Tormund would put it.

Edited by Beardy the Wildling

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3 hours ago, jcmontea said:

Who do you think treats Jon in a way that can't be explained by their immediate self interests? 

The Northern Lords could have treated Jon like a deserter but then they would have had to have been okay going with Sansa a girl right after a major battle that eliminated the Boltons. Its not clear that was obviously a better route to go down at the time for them. 

Cersei could have also treated Jon like shit. But her goal was to get the North not to interfere in her fight with Dany. Would treating Jon negatively have helped with that or achieving her immediate goal of acheiving an armistace with Dany? 

 

It's not about Cersei treating Jon like shit. It's about the fact that Cersei should not trust Jon Snow from what she knows. She views Ned as an honourable man who would not break his word. And Jon is his son (presumably with the same code of honour). Except, Jon has deserted the Night's Watch, something Ned would never stand for. Therefore, Jon cannot be assumed to be like his father, which was the only reason Cersei might have had to take his word seriously.

As for the Northern lords, they didn't question Jon deserting the NW even before they swore fealty to him and were basically telling to f*** off. They brought up Robb's failures, Sansa's marriage to Ramsey and the Ironborn, but not Jon deserting an ancient institution that actually serves a purpose to these people (protecting their lands from wildling raiders). It's madness.

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26 minutes ago, WSmith84 said:

It's not about Cersei treating Jon like shit. It's about the fact that Cersei should not trust Jon Snow from what she knows. She views Ned as an honourable man who would not break his word. And Jon is his son (presumably with the same code of honour). Except, Jon has deserted the Night's Watch, something Ned would never stand for. Therefore, Jon cannot be assumed to be like his father, which was the only reason Cersei might have had to take his word seriously.

That is a good point. Maybe Cersei was too drunk to think about that. 

Quote

As for the Northern lords, they didn't question Jon deserting the NW even before they swore fealty to him and were basically telling to f*** off. They brought up Robb's failures, Sansa's marriage to Ramsey and the Ironborn, but not Jon deserting an ancient institution that actually serves a purpose to these people (protecting their lands from wildling raiders). It's madness.

Before the battle agreed, someone should have questioned him aside from Ramsey. Maybe Ed wrote him a hallway pass. 

Edited by jcmontea

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I think the evil queen in her evil castle next to the evil town is just testing our white hero. She wants to know if she can manipulate him. She used to manipulate all the world and Jon is her next play toy to use and then throw away.

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On ‎10‎.‎9‎.‎2017 at 2:17 PM, Greywater-Watch said:

I wonder if the actors have read the books. In that case the bolder ones should have protested against the awful writing practically destroying their characters.

Except of the Selmy´s actor, I think that Finn was annoyed about the traetment of Loras and specifically wanted him to be more like in the books. His fate in seasons 5 and 6 might have something to do with that... 

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Just now, Rhodan said:

Except of the Selmy´s actor, I think that Finn was annoyed about the traetment of Loras and specifically wanted him to be more like in the books. His fate in seasons 5 and 6 might have something to do with that... 

Oh shit, I didn't know Finn Jones had an issue with Loras being transformed into a gay cartoon! Suddenly his treatment of 'he's gay, now laugh'/'he's gay, now pity him' makes a whole lot more sense...

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On 9/11/2017 at 9:53 PM, WSmith84 said:

It's not about Cersei treating Jon like shit. It's about the fact that Cersei should not trust Jon Snow from what she knows. She views Ned as an honourable man who would not break his word. And Jon is his son (presumably with the same code of honour). Except, Jon has deserted the Night's Watch, something Ned would never stand for. Therefore, Jon cannot be assumed to be like his father, which was the only reason Cersei might have had to take his word seriously.

As for the Northern lords, they didn't question Jon deserting the NW even before they swore fealty to him and were basically telling to f*** off. They brought up Robb's failures, Sansa's marriage to Ramsey and the Ironborn, but not Jon deserting an ancient institution that actually serves a purpose to these people (protecting their lands from wildling raiders). It's madness.

And this is a lack of consistency within the show itself, one of the earliest scenes was Ned executing a night's watch deserter, who had a very compelling reason for running away. That Jon deserted the night's watch is something that should have come up again and again, even if they want it dismissed rather than write a good story that addresses everything properly. The writing is just so sloppy.

Edited by Le Cygne

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10 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

And this is a lack of consistency within the show itself, one of the earliest scenes was Ned executing a night's watch deserter, who had a very compelling reason for running away. That Jon deserted the night's watch is something that should have come up again and again, even if they want it dismissed rather than write a good story that addresses everything properly. The writing is just so sloppy.

Well to be fair to Ned that deserter was not coherent and had probably snapped. Plus he did not report into the watch his findings he just ran as far south as he could.

But yeah there should be a hell of a lot more questions about Jon leaving the watch. Maybe have him take off his shirt to reveal all the wounds and tell the world he died and was rough back by the Old Gods and Stannis' red witch

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I'm sorry, but why would Dany not have just taken her two remaining dragons and roasted the Night King right away? Each dragon could have come from a different direction because he could only throw in one direction at a time anyway. Whichever dragon he doesn't throw at just flames him and his officers, while the other dragon dodges it. Then they can take care of the rest of the army easily.

Also, why did Arya say that she didn't receive training from anyone? She was training to be a Faceless Man and had previously received training from Syrio. And if you say the Syrio stuff was from so long ago it doesn't count, I would point out that Arya harkened back to his training when she fought against the waif by slicing off the candle. She also appeared to be water dancing to a degree when sparring with Brienne.

Edited by Southron Gourd
Typo

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1 minute ago, Southron Gourd said:

I'm sorry, but why would Dany not have just taken her two remaining dragons and roasted the Night King right away? Each dragon could have come from a different direction because he could only throw in one direction at a time anyway. Whichever dragon he doesn't throw at just flames him and his officers, while the other dragon doges it. Then they can take care of the rest of the army easily.

Also, why did Arya say that she didn't receive training from anyone? She was training to be a Faceless Man and had previously received training from Syrio. And if you say the Syrio stuff was from so long ago it doesn't count, I would point out that Arya harkened back to his training when she fought against the waif by slicing off the candle. She also appeared to be water dancing to a degree when sparring with Brienne.

Perhaps he's made out of asbestos.

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20 minutes ago, Southron Gourd said:

I'm sorry, but why would Dany not have just taken her two remaining dragons and roasted the Night King right away? Each dragon could have come from a different direction because he could only throw in one direction at a time anyway. Whichever dragon he doesn't throw at just flames him and his officers, while the other dragon doges it. Then they can take care of the rest of the army easily.

Also, why did Arya say that she didn't receive training from anyone? She was training to be a Faceless Man and had previously received training from Syrio. And if you say the Syrio stuff was from so long ago it doesn't count, I would point out that Arya harkened back to his training when she fought against the waif by slicing off the candle. She also appeared to be water dancing to a degree when sparring with Brienne.

The Night King seems not to be troubled by fire, in S6E5 we saw that already, and here again fire extinguished when he crossed it, even it was dragon breath fire. So that plan of loosing one more dragon without the assurance of killing him is at least very risky.

I think that Brienne's question who tought you how to do that is only about the last Arya's dagger move, not for the whole fight (she would have asked who tought you to fight like that then) . Syrio has nothing to do with that kind of skill, no one is a logic answer for me.

Edited by valgrel

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11 minutes ago, valgrel said:

The Night King seems not to be troubled by fire, in S6E5 we saw that already, and here again fire extinguished when he crossed it, even it was dragon breath fire. So that plan of loosing one more dragon without the assurance of killing him is at least very risky.

 

 Do they get HBO in Meereen?

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10 minutes ago, valgrel said:

The Night King seems not to be troubled by fire, in S6E5 we saw that already, and here again fire extinguished when he crossed it, even it was dragon breath fire. So that plan of loosing one more dragon without the assurance of killing him is at least very risky.

I know it's magical magic that works in magic ways ... but the core question is: why is the blue guy so connected with winter when he has no problems with heat ? Should build himself a nice comfy summer house in the summer islands. 

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47 minutes ago, SirArthur said:

I know it's magical magic that works in magic ways ... but the core question is: why is the blue guy so connected with winter when he has no problems with heat ? Should build himself a nice comfy summer house in the summer islands. 

He's immune to everything!  Jon needs a magical sword!  Look in the crypts! Jon Snow... ya big dummy.

 

Edited by LynnS

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12 minutes ago, LynnS said:

He's immune to everything!  Jon needs a magical sword!  Look in the crypts! Jon Snow... ya big dummy.

A magical fire sword !

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13 minutes ago, SirArthur said:

A magical fire sword !

I don't know... something friggin amazing! LOL

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1 hour ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

Not sure whether you're trying to make the enjoyers of the show look stupid or make the critics of the show look like losers.

Why not both? Insult everyone, everywhere all the time. 

-Lord Petyr (however it's spelled) Baelish 

 

Let the man rant. Rant I say! I also look forward to that PP presentation 

Edited by MrJay

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1 hour ago, MrJay said:

Why not both? Insult everyone, everywhere all the time. 

-Lord Petyr (however it's spelled) Baelish 

 

Let the man rant. Rant I say! I also look forward to that PP presentation 

Lul.

FOIT EVHRYWUN, ALL THE TOIM, WITIN YUR MOIND - Batfinger, 2017

But yeah, I'd love to see the Powerpoint Presentation, if you're up for making it :P

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