Lord Flashheart Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Yeah and then he follow that up by saying its okay for him to say it because Richard Pryor gave him permission in the 70's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datepalm Posted January 8, 2014 Author Share Posted January 8, 2014 I re-watched the two episodes with my sister last night, and while the second one has grown on me, I like the first one even less, I think. Community is kind of wildly post-modern, after all. It isn't just the style, it's the characters - it never really deals with social or economic issues. Everything is permissable at Greendale - including blackface and race-kerfluffles and nazis. It's essentially a metaphorical fantasy universe that shapes itself in accordance with the characters psyches and relatioships. When Greendale needs to be a post-apocalyptic wasteland, it's it is. When it needs to be a mystery, or a mob heist or a space adventure or a conspiracy thriller, it will find a way to convulse itself into that shape to facilitate the examination of the characters. So, it's reality shifting under the power of mind, rather than the other way around. An essentially liberal (in both European and American senses) ideological position. Match that against the Repilot episodes attemtps to deal with real life issues out in an unmutable, unflexible world - the characters turn out to be wildly unprepared to face the need to find jobs and make a living in a recession economy with rampant underemployment. (I wonder if Troy leaving will be because he actually find a job in air-conditioning repair - he's the only one of them getting out of there with a viable trade.) What doesn't work for me is then bouncing back to Greendale to hide out from that world, while also mocking Greendale for being a terrible school that gives out worthless degrees. If Greendale is useless as a learning experience and just a place to hide from the real world, what's the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mlle. Zabzie Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I re-watched the two episodes with my sister last night, and while the second one has grown on me, I like the first one even less, I think. Community is kind of wildly post-modern, after all. It isn't just the style, it's the characters - it never really deals with social or economic issues. Everything is permissable at Greendale - including blackface and race-kerfluffles and nazis. It's essentially a metaphorical fantasy universe that shapes itself in accordance with the characters psyches and relatioships. When Greendale needs to be a post-apocalyptic wasteland, it's it is. When it needs to be a mystery, or a mob heist or a space adventure or a conspiracy thriller, it will find a way to convulse itself into that shape to facilitate the examination of the characters. So, it's reality shifting under the power of mind, rather than the other way around. An essentially liberal (in both European and American senses) ideological position. Match that against the Repilot episodes attemtps to deal with real life issues out in an unmutable, unflexible world - the characters turn out to be wildly unprepared to face the need to find jobs and make a living in a recession economy with rampant underemployment. (I wonder if Troy leaving will be because he actually find a job in air-conditioning repair - he's the only one of them getting out of there with a viable trade.) What doesn't work for me is then bouncing back to Greendale to hide out from that world, while also mocking Greendale for being a terrible school that gives out worthless degrees. If Greendale is useless as a learning experience and just a place to hide from the real world, what's the point? Oh but if you want to go that direction, it then becomes a beautiful and subtle commentary on American higher education. There are plenty of people who would admit to "hiding out" in school through a downturn, regardless of the value of a degree. That is, on some level, if you are in school, you aren't expected to have a job and so can answer the question "what do you do" with "I'm a student", which is an acceptable answer. So, bouncing back to Greendale is precisely the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionAhaiReborn Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Seems more utopian than liberal, to me. Less about the power of the individual mind to shape reality than about accessing a shared cultural cache to shape (or shield against) reality together. Community doesn't go after social or economic issues because its values exist in the airy range of people supporting and doing right by one another, and that by doing this the world becomes magical and beautiful. So I guess the point is to illustrate these values in a fictional location, in standard utopian fashion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime L Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 What doesn't work for me is then bouncing back to Greendale to hide out from that world, while also mocking Greendale for being a terrible school that gives out worthless degrees. Hey we're talking about the #2 Community College in America according to GreendaleCommunityCollege.com Oh but if you want to go that direction, it then becomes a beautiful and subtle commentary on American higher education. There are plenty of people who would admit to "hiding out" in school through a downturn, regardless of the value of a degree. That is, on some level, if you are in school, you aren't expected to have a job and so can answer the question "what do you do" with "I'm a student", which is an acceptable answer. So, bouncing back to Greendale is precisely the point. Yes, agreed. I think in a way Community really accurately captures the feelings a lot of people have about their (especially liberal arts) college experience. Maybe it didn't prepare you the best for the real world and "how can this be a real class?" But you still hold onto the warm and fuzzy feelings from your time there and the relationships you had and you look back on it fondly. Even if that experience directly led into that lost, painfully striving period that follows it still perversely nevertheless made you grateful to have been there and longing to return. But I really liked Re-Pilot for kinda showing the real world implications of a school that's churning out students with degrees based largely on one's skill with dioramas. They go out in the world and build bridges (and people) that collapse. The reality distortion field of Community doesn't apply to the world outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datepalm Posted January 8, 2014 Author Share Posted January 8, 2014 Seems more utopian than liberal, to me. Less about the power of the individual mind to shape reality than about accessing a shared cultural cache to shape (or shield against) reality together. Community doesn't go after social or economic issues because its values exist in the airy range of people supporting and doing right by one another, and that by doing this the world becomes magical and beautiful. So I guess the point is to illustrate these values in a fictional location, in standard utopian fashion. Well, that is kind of the liberal utopia, isn't it? The ultimate value is given to bonds based on a kind of social compatibility and shared hobbies as a mechanism for moving through the world vs. bonds based on solidarity in a class sense - about carving a place out and protecting it rather than by changing anything. I mean, I'm kind of reaching here - I don't think Community could or should turn into a show where someone tried to unionize the air-conditioner repairmen, but just extrapolating out from the ideologies, what kind of social relations the show celebrates and what kind of value it gives them. Thats why i'm not sure what to make of the what happens at Greendale stays at Greendale kind of view. There's something grim about the fact that theres no use to what people get at Greendale on the outside, because it seems to be mixing up the different arguments, I guess. Greendale was never about getting out with a really good credential, it's about personal growth and emotional maturity and figuring out direction in life and so on. But the moment everyone sets foot outside, they seem to regress - it's not just the economics that send them back, it's that they don't seem to have learned anything of what the college is trying to teach them. Annie is right back to frentic keeping up of appearances, Abed back to an alienated perfectionaism, Jeff back to being an asshole, Shirley's family collapsed all over again, etc. If the mind-over-matter(ialism) surrealism of the college is worthless on the outside, why are we respecting it on the inside? It just feels to me like the show hasn't earned that level of seriousness. I don't feel like there has been an underlying current previously that the bonds and the personal growth and so on of the characters hasn't been real, and yet apparently it wasn't - it was just an illusion all along, and now the show is kind of asking me to go along with it anyway, and for no particular convincing reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceChampion Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Well, that is kind of the liberal utopia, isn't it? Greendale may be liberal, but the use of a deliberately self-deceiving reality distortion field (philosophical constructivism) infects both the far left and the far right. Social justice warriors, Tea Party libertarian conspiracy theorists, evangelical christians, racist old white men... Am I describing the characters of the study group or an I describing politics in America? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 But the moment everyone sets foot outside, they seem to regress - it's not just the economics that send them back, it's that they don't seem to have learned anything of what the college is trying to teach them. Annie is right back to frentic keeping up of appearances, Abed back to an alienated perfectionaism, Jeff back to being an asshole, Shirley's family collapsed all over again, etc. Most of this stuff happens to people who go to all sorts of colleges, including some of the best in the U.S. Annie gave up on her dream job, Abed never worked that hard to fit in, Shirley over expanded her business, and Jeff's venture at non-profit lawyering was a bust. Britta just gave up on grad school because it was too hard to keep going, which isn't that different from the character we see in Season 1. Troy's the one I don't quite get - is he working as an AC repairman right now? But really all of those things that happened to them aren't necessarily due to Greendale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionAhaiReborn Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Well, that is kind of the liberal utopia, isn't it? The ultimate value is given to bonds based on a kind of social compatibility and shared hobbies as a mechanism for moving through the world vs. bonds based on solidarity in a class sense - about carving a place out and protecting it rather than by changing anything. I mean, I'm kind of reaching here - I don't think Community could or should turn into a show where someone tried to unionize the air-conditioner repairmen, but just extrapolating out from the ideologies, what kind of social relations the show celebrates and what kind of value it gives them. No, I don't think it is a liberal utopia. I'm not sure the bonds are based on social compatibility and shared hobbies precisely, as much as the show is asserting an extant cache of shared culture around which apparently incompatible people (and the show makes hay of this) can form communities. Rather than forming this bond as a mechanism for moving through the world I think it asserts that this is what the world ought to be, organized on the basis of broadly inclusive and mutually supportive communities. I don't think there's enough (if any) emphasis on individualism for it to be liberal. It's more a kind of reactionary utopianism yearning for clear and universal social relations conducted in good faith, albeit with modern mores and cultural landmarks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Troy's the one I don't quite get - is he working as an AC repairman right now? But really all of those things that happened to them aren't necessarily due to Greendale. I'm guessing that's how they write him out. The fact he achieves something precludes him having to leave. I suspect his current failure is in his deoendence on Abed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I'm guessing that's how they write him out. The fact he achieves something precludes him having to leave. I suspect his current failure is in his dependence on Abed. But then Annie is the only one paying rent in their apartment? Harmon probably didn't think this through in his desire to go dark. Which is okay IMO, since the Harmon darkness here is better than Abed trying to cut off Jeff's arm in the S3 finale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aemon Stark Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 The only odd thing is that Annie's job as a pharmaceutical rep would be a lot cushier and more lucrative than being the manager of, say, a hospital admitting department (I would kill myself if doing that...). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I found these relatively entertaining Apparently, Hulu is doing more to promote Community than NBC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime L Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I found these relatively entertaining Apparently, Hulu is doing more to promote Community than NBC. Too funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I found these relatively entertaining Apparently, Hulu is doing more to promote Community than NBC. Heh, you know NBC actually said "Greenville" instead of "Greendale" on one of the S5 promos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Heh, you know NBC actually said "Greenville" instead of "Greendale" on one of the S5 promos? Yeah I heard. Little is to be expected from NBC at this point :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Flashheart Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Early prediction, Troy is the ass crack bandit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Flashheart Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Prediction fail. Troy is a victim. Whoops that was fast."You wanna make trouble? Go to Parker brothers!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionAhaiReborn Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Oh, how I love Community. That was a classic, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howdyphillip Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Was that the first new episode of the season? It was the first one I caught and I found it brilliant. What a great nod to the old serial killer films. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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