Harry and Hermione

[Eponine]

My problem is I'm not convinced that an intellectual person seeking a partner, desires one that is equally as intellectual. They could have always made Hermione single and not interested in a partner as an alternative.

I agree with the first statement, but am glad that Hermione found *something besides intelligence* that she valued in another person. Something rubs me the wrong way about the idea that Hermione (or any smart person) would only value either another smart person or no one at all - i.e. that someone isn't good enough for a smart person if they can't offer equal intelligence because obviously that's the only thing that a person can offer.

But I wonder how an actual 13 year old views the Hermione/Ron romance, whether it makes sense to the pre-teen readers - instead of a bunch of adults who have years of relationship experience.

[MercenaryChef]

i just wish our boy wizard had died. forget having him end up with hermione. he should have died.

[jons nissa]

But I wonder how an actual 13 year old views the Hermione/Ron romance, whether it makes sense to the pre-teen readers - instead of a bunch of adults who have years of relationship experience.

this. most of the kids that read the series don't think anything doesn't make sense in the series and miss big understandings such as either neville or harry could have been the chosen one, dumbledore planned (and succeeded) to sacrifice harry as soon as he understood the relationship between him and voldie and the relationships are really off. most (yes, most not all) think it's all really perfect and wonderful. i say this based on the forums that were really popular at the time.

[TrueMetis]

the only pairing i genuinely liked was to tonks and lupin anyway

I stopped liking Lupin when he tried to bail out. Selfish prick.

Actually, the perfect answer to the Ron and Hermione conundrum can be found in Gen Chat. Someone necromanced an old thread of Triskele's, called "That's Your Boyfriend?", and the response to Trisky's comments about someone's boyfriend are all about what people look for in a relationship. :)

Hermione and Ron can work because they give things to each other that both are looking for in a relationship.

Gonna give examples? Cause I'm drawing a blank there.

i just wish our boy wizard had died. forget having him end up with hermione. he should have died.

Considering he basically stop preparing and keeps using non-lethal spell against people trying to kill him? I agree.

[Gneisenau]

None that I can think of. The large majority of really bright people end up in Ravenclaw, but we hardly encounter any Ravenclaws.

Even then Ravenclaw's defining trait I think is more of being quirky/nerdy/geeky.

[Lady Howell]

The problem I had with the series wasn't so much that Harry and Hermione didn't end up together, and instead she ended up with Ron, but with who Harry ended up with instead of her. Hermione and Ron was done reasonably well, and like any realistic relationship they aren't perfect for each other, but they make it work and love each other despite the other's flaws. It's what makes it work.

The problem with Harry and Ginny is that it's very shallow. JK I believe even admitted that Ginny was supposed to be the "perfect girl" for Harry. But having the main character end up with the "perfect girl" for him, is not good, or realistic. Love is about sacrefice and learning to love one another despite certain things.

Ron and Hermione got over the fact that they're two different kinds of smart: Hermione's a book smart know-it-all, but Ron's clever too in his own ways, even if he isn't the best student. They accepted this about each other and still manage to love each other despite their flaws.

Harry and Ginny...eh...you can see the problem simply by the fact they never once had to overcome any issues in their relationship besides the fact Harry was the chosen one and being his love-interest put her in danger. But, that's more like external conflict for the relationship, not internal like Hermione and Ron's had.

Plus, Hinny's development went way too fast and lacked a lot of the depth it should have gotten if JK really wanted us to believe they spent the rest of their lives together happily ever after. Though according to a teacher of mine who is an avid fan of JK, said that Rowling once said that originally Luna was supposed to be Harry's love interest, but that got derailed for some reason. Rowling later retconned saying the Ginny was always supposed to be for Harry.

Which really doesn't make sense if you look at the books, because it seems like Harry x Luna was being set up before Harry x Ginny came in the picture, and then suddenly Ginny is just there, front in center and everything. Luna fades more into the background in comparison. Which makes me think that perhaps her rescue from Malfoy manor in the seventh book was originally planned to be a romantic rescue mission to save Harry's love interest and that even after deciding not to go down the Harry x Luna path, JK decided to keep it in.

So the rushed development of Hinny I suppose could be chalked up to JK having a change of heart mid-series and then trying to get all the Harry x Ginny stuff in the last few books. I also heard that one of the reasons the Ginny obsession in the Half-Blood Prince is over-the-top and sudden is because JK wanted to draw attention away from Harry's other obsession of that year, Draco. By the looks of fanfiction.net, she failed.

I think far less people would still be such die hard fans of Hermione x Harry if Hinny was simply done better.

[Theda Baratheon]

I always thought that there deaths were pretty badly done

badly done and done just so there would be a new orphan. i hated this attempt at a circle plot.

Yeah. :crying: Oh no....my...my heart...

[Fragile Bird]

Was anyone else bothered by the fact that Harry had no family members living except his aunt? His parents being killed by Voldie was one thing, but both sets of grandparents as well? And when Harry looks in the mirror of Erised, there are all these relatives, all dead? It wasn't just his mom and dad and their parents, but lots of others.

Sorry, thread derail. :p But that always bothered me.

[TrueMetis]

Was anyone else bothered by the fact that Harry had no family members living except his aunt? His parents being killed by Voldie was one thing, but both sets of grandparents as well? And when Harry looks in the mirror of Erised, there are all these relatives, all dead? It wasn't just his mom and dad and their parents, but lots of others.

Sorry, thread derail. :P But that always bothered me.

That bugged me too, I can accept that James was an only child, but no cousins? In the wizarding world were basically everybody is related? There's a family tree Rowling made that hints at Harry being related to Sirius but it's not mentioned in the books.

Ron and Hermione got over the fact that they're two different kinds of smart: Hermione's a book smart know-it-all, but Ron's clever too in his own ways, even if he isn't the best student. They accepted this about each other and still manage to love each other despite their flaws.

Can I get some examples please? Cause apparently everyone else saw a very different Ron than I did, and I'm starting to feel I got the short end of the stick. Cause all I can remember in support of Ron being clever is "good at Chess" which is fair enough but not really enough.

[Lady Howell]

That bugged me too, I can accept that James was an only child, but no cousins? In the wizarding world were basically everybody is related? There's a family tree Rowling made that hints at Harry being related to Sirius but it's not mentioned in the books.

Can I get some examples please? Cause apparently everyone else saw a very different Ron than I did, and I'm starting to feel I got the short end of the stick. Cause all I can remember in support of Ron being clever is "good at Chess" which is fair enough but not really enough.

He had his moments. Maybe not of brilliance, but he's street smart rather than book smart and uses the talents he does have to help the trio when he can (or rather when Rowling can't use Harry or Hermione to solve the problem). I suppose clever isn't the word for it, but rather resourceful. He's uses what he's got, like his chess skills and voice mimicry, and he does his fair share when he can, even if he isn't as smart as Hermione, or as skilled as Harry.

[Lord Voldemort's Toes]

First post.

It should have been Fleur and Hermione!

[Gneisenau]

According to some interviews JK or Watson said Ron would have trouble keeping Hermione happy, which really makes her wish fufillment comment weird.

[Warg Arry]

When it comes to shipping. I've seen the threesome become a... threesome. And the Story of the Snape and Hermione relationship may never leave my brain.

What is seen can not be unseen.

Anyway who says that relationships always have to be *click* Roses, Champagne, Chocolates and electric *it's like we were made to fit together* sex.

I don't know anyone who still has that after a decade together and a few kids. Once the chemistry and lust has cleared you have someone you deeply care about, a friend, someone you respect and it's all mutual. The amount of love you feel for your partner can vary day to day. But it's the willingness to work at it and make it work because you both are in it and want it. To put value in each other and what you have together. Is what makes it last.

I always thought Ron and Hermione worked. Or at least I could see how they would work long term in theory. (Of course this is just my perception and opinion.) Ron admired and respected Hermione. He was the one that would remind Harry of her importance to the group. Often Harry would get impatient or annoyed with Hermione. Ron often took her side or attempted to see things from her point of view. (Sure not always. But there was evidence of him trying)

I can imagine an adult Ron. More mature, less moody and sulky. Being a supportive partner in what Hermione wants to do. And I can see Hermione being that in return to Ron.

They also started as friends. And have a history together that no one else would be able to really relate to. Being the Harry Potter side kicks. In life and death situations making sacrifices and taking risks in the story of Harry Potter.

That has to be a bond for life scenario. Shared PTSD for the win.

And Ron wasn't the only moody jealous little shit at times in the story. I could barely get through OotP without wanting to smack Harry upside the head. Sure he was under the Voldie influence. But that wasn't the only book that Harry was being a little snot in.

Also I valued the friendship between Harry and Hermione. There really should be more friendships like that. Instead of the notion that's more often put forward. That if he has boy parts and she has girl parts then it's inevitable that those parts would want to meet. Which isn't completely healthy or true.

The person that deserved a happy ending in every way was Neville.

Just thinking about the moment with his mum and that damn lolly wrapper. Still makes me weep.

Apparently Luna ended up with Rolf Scamanda...

Rolf Scamander was a magizoologist and the grandson of Newt Scamander and his wife Porpentina. He married fellow naturalist Luna Lovegood,^[3] and the couple had twin sons named Lorcan and Lysander.^[4]

I guess we learn more about Newt Scamanda when the Fantastic Beasts movies come out. Married into a famous family. Way to go Luna.

[TrueMetis]

He had his moments. Maybe not of brilliance, but he's street smart rather than book smart and uses the talents he does have to help the trio when he can (or rather when Rowling can't use Harry or Hermione to solve the problem). I suppose clever isn't the word for it, but rather resourceful. He's uses what he's got, like his chess skills and voice mimicry, and he does his fair share when he can, even if he isn't as smart as Hermione, or as skilled as Harry.

Really don't think any wizard qualifies as "street smart" certainly not Ron. Not sure what you mean by voice mimicry, are you referring to Ron somehow mimicking Parseltongue after hearing once 5 years ago? Cause that was stupid.

I always thought Ron and Hermione worked. Or at least I could see how they would work long term in theory. (Of course this is just my perception and opinion.) Ron admired and respected Hermione. He was the one that would remind Harry of her importance to the group. Often Harry would get impatient or annoyed with Hermione. Ron often took her side or attempted to see things from her point of view. (Sure not always. But there was evidence of him trying)

I can imagine an adult Ron. More mature, less moody and sulky. Being a supportive partner in what Hermione wants to do. And I can see Hermione being that in return to Ron.

I really need to re-read the series apparently. Cause Ron and supportive are not qualities I put together, nor is Ron admiring and respecting Hermione. To much fanfic I guess,

And Ron wasn't the only moody jealous little shit at times in the story. I could barely get through OotP without wanting to smack Harry upside the head. Sure he was under the Voldie influence. But that wasn't the only book that Harry was being a little snot in.

And the mind rape, and the torture. Considering what he went through Harry did really well.

[Warg Arry]

@ Truemetis. Mind Rape? Are you talking about Voldemort during OotP or Snape in HBP. Or is it something else you are referring to?

And yes. Considering what Harry went through he did really well.

I just think that it also comes with the territory of growing up and not being able to deal and process what life is throwing at them. As well as understanding what they themselves are thinking and feeling. And if that is the case I don't think it's fair to look at Ron and call him out for his weak or learning curve moments (not saying you did. Just commenting generally). Harry presented more of those moments than Ron. But the unpleasantness of it is diminished by the understandability or even it coming from a more relatable side than what we are given in regards to Ron's behaviour.

Ron wasn't my favourite character. But I do think he loses story traction and gets out shone by events and his friends. Just by virtue of the story being told and the part he plays. There are still elements that honour him. And perhaps (speculating)there was character potential that may have been lost is the process of his creator deciding his fate.

At least that's how I felt while reading. That Ron (as a written character) got a bit short changed a long the way.

Just the fact that he was Harry Potters first friend and remains his friend. Also gives him his first fond Christmas memories gets him points in my book though.. So yeah.

[Shryke]

That bugged me too, I can accept that James was an only child, but no cousins? In the wizarding world were basically everybody is related? There's a family tree Rowling made that hints at Harry being related to Sirius but it's not mentioned in the books.

It's not hard to end up with a tiny family tree. The only child of parents with very few/no brothers and sisters and cousins they don't really know who live far away and bam.

Can I get some examples please? Cause apparently everyone else saw a very different Ron than I did, and I'm starting to feel I got the short end of the stick. Cause all I can remember in support of Ron being clever is "good at Chess" which is fair enough but not really enough.

Yeah, post-1st-book Ron is Harry's good friend and trusty but useless sidekick.

[TrueMetis]

I'm referring to what Snape did in OoTP. With the Occlumency "lessons."

[The Marquis de Leech]

Yeah, post-1st-book Ron is Harry's good friend and trusty but useless sidekick.

Just as Hermione exists to give Harry (and the reader) insight into the technical/historical/intellectual side of Hogwarts, Ron exists to give an insight into the cultural side of the wizarding world: unlike Harry and Hermione, he was born into it. But there's only so much wizarding culture to be brought up (whereas Hermione can mention new spells), so Ron loses his importance as the series goes on.

[Warg Arry]

I'm referring to what Snape did in OoTP. With the Occlumency "lessons."

Yeah, that was a bit brutal and abusive. But didn't Harry consent?

Probably a bit of a de-rail sorry.

[TrueMetis]

Yeah, that was a bit brutal and abusive. But didn't Harry consent?

Probably a bit of a de-rail sorry.

Well since he was never actually told what Occlumency lessons consisted of, no not really. Also he's not an adult so he probably couldn't consent regardless being fifteen. Then again the Wizarding world seems odd in that regard.

Though I did like how Snape said "I told you to empty yourself of emotion! ... Fools who wear their hearts proudly on their sleeves, who cannot control their emotions, who wallow in sad memories and allow themselves to be provoked this easily — weak people, in other words — they stand no chance against his powers! He will penetrate your mind with absurd ease, Potter!"

Nice self description there Snivellus.