[Book Spoilers] EP402 Discussion

[P. frontalis chiripepe]

Who the hell was that woman hunting with Ramsay?

It was one of the two women who seduced Theon last season right before they cut off his ding-a-ling.

[WeirwoodForest]

Everyone was so focused on the necklace, did anybody catch what Olenna said to Sansa:

I haven't had the opportunity to tell you how sorry I was to hear about your brother. War is war, but killing a man at a wedding...horrid. What sort of monster would do such a thing?

[lil_z]

You can see the jewel missing on Sansa's necklace on the far right.

You can see the jewel missing on Sansa's necklace on the far right.

That's nice to see that, but I would have liked a further nod to the book readers showing how and when it got in his drink/goblet, he pours out the goblet soon after, unless it is a very slow acting poison. And I don't directly recall them mentioning that Qot was the actualy culperate, only suspicions.

[When Harry met Sansa]

I agree. What really irked me about this episode wasn't just the unnecessary BS like this-it's the fact that GRRM wrote this episode and chose to include it. Do we really need to deviate from the books so much for absolutely no point when we know the tiny little interactions tonight will go nowhere?

Setting up a Brienne-loves-Jaime-arc is just stupid; it's already been established that Brienne was in love with Renly, which the viewer is reminded of in episode 1 of this season when she immediately goes to see Margery and tell her of what happened in the tent the night Renly died. On top of that, we know already that Cat meant a good deal to Brienne as she respected her greatly and her desire to eventually seek out the missing Stark girls this season should be fueled by her honor and the promise she made to Cat, not out of some misguided love for Jaime arc that I feel the show is going to go down.

The other really unnecessary wedding interaction tonight was the Jaime-Loras exchange. Not only do we have the visual exchange between Loras and Oberyn that we could really do without (Look, the show is handling Oberyn 10x better than they handled Renly; this GoT Seanzoz parody still perfectly captures how book Renly was so B.A. and the show went a little over-gay with him https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWgCMIg-E9Y), but then we have Jaime being so much weaker than we have him in the book as well. Along with Tyrion, Jaime probably has the best arc across the series and while we're sort of always on board for Team Tyrion, getting to root for Jaime starting in ASoS and onward is a really cool experience.

Yet last week rather than have Jaime come to the realization that there is still much he hasn't accomplished, which is sort of paramount to his arc's turn, it is Joffrey who reminds him, no doubt continuing to somehow make TV Joff worse than book Joff, who was still incredibly awful. The payout this week with Joff's death makes that scene from last week better, as it establishes that he can be a real shit to even the closest of his family members (we've seen this often with Tyrion, occasionally with Cersei.) But then this week that one look between Loras and Oberyn followed by the verbal beating that Jaime takes at Loras' hands is a little too much. Loras, just like Brienne, loved only Renly and begging Jaime to take the White Cloak is one of Loras' first actions once the two are in the same scene. The show seems to have other plans, which is annoying given Loras' arc later on and why he is so hellbent on taking Dragonstone.

i just saw the Brienne Cersei scene

UHH, was staying quiet an admission on brienns part? this kinda pisses me off

/back to the ep

[l2 0 5 5]

I never understood why they made such a huge deal in the show over the prostitutes giving back the money for Podric that means nothing really, it's a mild curiousity. (yea off topic)

I doubt that was done due to Pod from last season and the whores. I think it was done more for Oberyn to demonstrate the range of his sexuality with Ellaria.

[Greg B]

So is Schrodinger's Kraken dead or not? They're acting like he's dead in King's Landing, but not at the Dreadfort. Hoping this isn't as simple as botched editing.

[PhoenixFlame]

Setting up a Brienne-loves-Jaime-arc is just stupid; it's already been established that Brienne was in love with Renly, which the viewer is reminded of in episode 1 of this season when she immediately goes to see Margery and tell her of what happened in the tent the night Renly died. On top of that, we know already that Cat meant a good deal to Brienne as she respected her greatly and her desire to eventually seek out the missing Stark girls this season should be fueled by her honor and the promise she made to Cat, not out of some misguided love for Jaime arc that I feel the show is going to go down.

Erm, Brienne's love for Jaime is canon. She thinks it when Stoneheart's hanging her. She can do something for honor but still feel love for someone.

Oh, I love Natalie Dormer's little expressions, like her "contempt to delight" expression when the pie comes.

Edited April 14, 2014 by PhoenixFlame

[Zman1863]

She has no justification. You don't get to kill someone (which is what she'll be trying to do) because they tried to send you away to keep you safe. The book reasoning is much stronger: she has no choice or loyalty to Tyrion so fuck him.

Hopefully we don't see vengeful Shae though. Christ, this plot is already melodramatic and tired enough.

I think they are setting it up that she is both in the custody of Tywin/Cersei and that she thinks Tyrion doesn't want her anymore. That means she has a grievance and no choice either way. I suppose it makes Tyrion seem a bit sympathetic since if you look close he was protecting her in the show. But he did it in a dickish way that doesn't win him any brownie points. I think they are actually on the right track for once.

[Frances Bean Corbray]

So is Schrodinger's Kraken dead or not? They're acting like he's dead in King's Landing, but not at the Dreadfort. Hoping this isn't as simple as botched editing.

Nah, they just don't give a fuck about him. Alive or dead, he is no real threat to them.

Even his offensive dwarf charicature is a lazy afterthought compared to the others. He just yells "I'm drowning!" at one point.

[Nictarion]

Everyone was so focused on the necklace, did anybody catch what Olenna said to Sansa:

:laugh: I got a kick out that line.

[Newstar]

yah thats kinda weak! oh well. we all kinda knew, stll though, meh

Most of us knew. Some have been saying that Brienne being in love with Jaime is off-book, to which I say: please.

She has no justification. You don't get to kill someone (which is what she'll be trying to do) because they tried to send you away to keep you safe. The book reasoning is much stronger: she has no choice or loyalty to Tyrion so fuck him.

I dunno about justification, but after 4x02 I can see why Shae would testify out of revenge, assuming that she isn't being compelled or forced: TV Shae really did love Tyrion, and she really thought she could have a life with him. It's pretty cold to pull the "You're only my whore" line, when he had been treating her as something much closer to a wife prior to his marriage to Sansa. He told her he loved her several times. No wonder Shae's so devastated to have her status as a whore thrown in her face and to be lumped in with Tyrion's other prostitutes, by a man who professed to love her. I would not be surprised in the slightest if she chose to go scorched earth on Tyrion's ass after that. She feared as early as 3x02 that Tyrion would throw her over for Sansa, and now her fears have essentially been realized. For all Tyrion's protests of his abiding love for Shae and his insistences that he has no interest in Sansa, he's kicked Shae to the curb using the most painful, demeaning language possible.

Edited April 14, 2014 by Newstar

[averde]

As a book reader I had some huge problems with this episode. The two biggest were...

1) Tyrion and Shae's scene. Either Shae is truly gone now, which ruins so many things. If things still play out in a similar fashion how will they handle the Shae murder? I just don't see how this can play out well at all.

2) Stannis Baratheon. This was actually my first time being upset at how show Stannis has been portrayed (I know many Stannis fans have been upset for awhile). He killed Florent in the books for betraying him by trying to make a deal with Kings Landing, still a questionable execution I disagreed with but nothing like the crazy religious reason we saw on the show, Florent remained a follower of the seven so he's killed. I don't even see a reason for the change besides to portray Stannis in an even darker light.

Edited April 14, 2014 by averde

[rmholt]

Joffrey throwing coins at Sigur Ros so they would go away was also a nice touch.

The hipster boards I read are, of course, highly amused by this

Oh, nice touch

[The Abominable SnowOther]

Most of us knew. Some have been saying that Brienne being in love with Jaime is off-book, to which I say: please.

very well said.

Sansa :crying:

OKaY, now that was a DEATH! :devil:

way better than the mental image i had painted in my mind :bowdown:

Edited April 14, 2014 by SnowOther

[HouseHarrison]

Good episode, my general thoughts:

*Reek and Moat Cailin stuff is coming way too early overall, and I think in general Reek appears far less ghastly/horrifying than I imagined him as.

*I really hope they don't cut Penny. She's vital to saving Tyrion from insanity. Though they can easily write her in I imagine.

*Really don't like the direction they went with Shae, I think they should have made her just another whore instead of an angry lover regarding her betrayal, it was much more soul-crushing for Tyrion.

*The Purple Wedding was great and the horrifying affects of the strangler were shown brilliantly.

*Passive-Aggressive Oberyn vs. Lannister fight was lulz

*Stannis burning Florent over being an "infidel" rather than trying to make peace behind his back was stupid

*Mace Tyrell is as big a doofus as I'd expect and Olenna snapping at him to go away was great.

*Changing Jaime to dueling with Bronn over Illyn Payne?!?! Noooo.

*BriennexJaime is obvious as hell in the books too. Though I don't think Brienne is necessarily so obviously in love this early.

*Tommen looks way too old despite the new actor

*Some of the visions Bran had were quite interesting, especially the scene of King's Landing ruined during winter which is the same vision Dany saw. I think GRRM shared that future plot with D&D.

Edited April 14, 2014 by HouseHarrison

[lil_z]

:laugh: I got a kick out that line.

Was deadpan obvious, "what kind of monster kills at a wedding?"

[Konradsmith]

It's fitting that Ramsay's return and Iwan Rheon's first appearance as a main cast member coincides with Joffrey's death. Obviously I'm not the first to say this but Ramsay is very much "Joffrey...but worse" in the same way that Roose is the Marlo Stanfield to Tywin's Stringer Bell.

[Queen of Whores]

Stannis just used the word "infidel"

OH.MY.FUCK.

Yeah, after that bit I kind of just did a Rust Cohle on this show: "I quit. Fuck this. Fuck this world."

[The Abominable SnowOther]

It's fitting that Ramsay's return and Iwan Rheon's first appearance as a main cast member coincides with Joffrey's death. Obviously I'm not the first to say this but Ramsay is very much "Joffrey...but worse" in the same way that Roose is the Marlo Stanfield to Tywin's Stringer Bell.

agreed, they need a resident psychpath

RIP Jack Gleeson

[NightStark]

*Changing Jaime to dueling with Bronn over Illyn Payne?!?! Noooo.

Actor who played Ilyn Payne has terminal cancer.