(BEWARE SPOILERS) Book Lovers beware this episode was better than we expected

[Roose Seal]

What about the hours of gratuitous sex this show throws in our face? The split second rape scene at Craster's least has a point in by showing us how utterly despicable those traitorous pieces of excrement are. What's the point of all the sex & nudity this show is known for? 99% of the time it does nothing to advance the story or develop the characters.

Picture an exec breathing down the director's neck, whispering in his ear "I represent the pervert side of the audience"

Because that's literally what's happening.

[The Fourth Head]

I really liked the changes. The show runners have proved a number of times now that actually, they know what they are doing, and whilst it's impossible to please everyone, an awful lot made sense.

1) I now understand why Tommen was recast, and it linked in with Olenna's husband-swapping story perfectly. Margary "straddled" that fine line between innocent childhood friend and sexual flirt pitch perfectly- the final kiss was a brilliant tease.

A*

2) I now appreciate a lot better the role Ros played last season. We see Littlefinger's smile, we see Sansa's fear, and we have that image of Ros, his last "female "confidant" engraved in our heads. It adds so much more tension: out of the frying pan, into the fire. My only fear is that they are showing LF's hand too soon, making future revelations less of a surprise, though I hope the next few episodes will see fans build an uneasy trust with him and put their fears aside, same as Sansa, as he goes about setting her up as his daughter, which will diffuse tension, and as Sansa's friend in contrast to Lysa who will be so deplorable. It's not like we haven't been played before, same as Ned after being told explicitly not to trust him, only to go about winning him over.

3) I loved the changes to Bran's story too. He is my favourite character in the books, but several seasons being totally cut off with little to do but tell stories is hard TV. He was becoming a bossy feral boy in the show, so to see him in a perilous position reconnected me with him sympathetically, and it was a clever way of showing us Bran's developing feelings for Meera in a subtle way.

4) I loved that nod to Rickon's comment in season 3 about the wildlings: "they make you drink blood from a cup made by your own skull!" It seems Rickon got the wildlings and kneelers the wrong way around: a necessary confusion. It also makes Jon the unambigious hero for now if he marches in and kills the mutineers- which is basically what he is planning on doing: marching off to kill some guys so they wont talk. this sweetens the deal a bit.

5) Jon's speech was BRILLIANT. "if we are brothers, then Jeor was our father, stabbed in the back- he needs justice!" (I paraphrase)

Just phenomenal writing. Jeor becoming a substitute for Ned, an early way for Jon to confuse leadership with his own personal agendas, and truly perfect foreshadowing. Magnificent.

Craster's Baby was no great reveal. I loved the icy mountain setting: brilliant, but TBH, I had guessed that was what happened anyway. This just spelled it out, and eliminated any ambiguity.

Still, going forward, I hope they DONT allow Jon and Bran to meet. Although it would provide a great opportunity for another tearful farewell, and for Bran to re-justify his mission to Jon, I much prefer the idea of Bran stealing away in the melee, providing us with another Arya'esque, or Queenscrown-esque near miss, wrongfooting viewers anticipating a happy greeting, and ramping up the tension that the Starks have not been together for a long time. I like that tension, and I think it's relevant going forwards.

For the poster criticising the wildlings for all being bad, I disagree. Tormund's disdain for the Thenn's humanised him more than his gruff banter the season before. His looking out for Ygritte humanises him too. I'd pick Tormund over Karl, Slynt, Thorne, and Rast any day.

[Mother of Mini Dragons]

I absolutely loved it. I love the books, but I am enjoying some of the changes. It makes watching it so exciting b/c you don't know what will happen. I also don't mind a little spoilery b/c we have to wait so long for the books anyway. I'm glad Bran is getting more story b/c walking in the snow, walking in the snow, walking in the snow would be really bad TV. The 3 cities Dany has conquered has already gotten a little stale, but thankfully that's now changing.

The reveal of the walkers was so cool and very exciting. Why did the show have to end at that point? I can't wait for next week.

[SerArthurHeath]

Hopefully Jon is made to think Bran dies at Craster's?

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

I think Jaime releasing Trion make sense but the rest of the changes less so. Bran getting caught? Jon knows about Bran? Jaime is a rapist? Craster baby added nothing only done for shock value.

Not sure what you are saying. Jaime hasn't released Tyrion in the show yet but he did in the book so that won't be a change...

[Twatbeards conspiracy]

Most of it I thought was pretty good. Showing the lands of always winter and nights king, whom I thought would've been dead but I guess if he and his other wife somehow had a child, that could've been him, wasn't really that big of a spoil, and was nice to see, espeacially with the long wait for twow. Jaimie and Brienne was done well, even Jon's speech was great. The only problem I truly had with the episode was Ghost being locked up looking like Greywind at the RW. That and how Jon doesn't seem to care about him. Also i don't really think Jon knowing about bran is too big a deal, even in the book Jon sort of considers the possibility since he did see Summer at Queenscrown. Them meeting wouldn't be that bad as Bran going off to become a tree is essentially like him being dead and won't have too big an impact on Jon's decisions later on, and if we get a farya it also adds to Jon's belief that if one sibling survived why couldn't another.

[AnotherCrannogman]

Not sure what you are saying. Jaime hasn't released Tyrion in the show yet but he did in the book so that won't be a change...

Yes and no.

Jamie does get Varys to release Tyrion and then they have a discussion about things including Tasha but Vary is the one who let's Tyrion get to Tywin for the kill. I am saying Jamie may be more involved in the latter in the show. Just a theory

[Reinzer]

For everyone complaining about the series catching up on the books with that others scene. Go complain to GRRM and his turtle writing pace

[Starksmustwin]

Really? I get more frustrated each episode. Everything is wrong. Some things get us to the same point & have to be changed to film & I get that but...Gilly in Mole's Town? The Wildlings are insane. Jon knows Bran is alive & is going to Crasters? Bran is at Crasters? The whole thing is a mess.

One of my favorite things about the books is that things are not always fair. Good people die & it isn't fair. The characters are not purely good or evil (save a few) & for me the show is ruining that.

The whole reason Jon Snow thinks its possible to make good with the wildlings is BECAUSE he realizes they are just people. Some are good, some are bad. The show has painted them all as some savage lunatics I suppose in an attempt for us to root for their deaths?

NO WAY those chumps at Crasters could've captured ghost.

I'm just afraid they are going to change the whole story line. Are the show & the books going to end up in the same place? If not it will be very disappointing for me. I'm glad you all enjoyed the episode but for me its just moving too far away from the books.

The Show is NOT the books. If you want the books, plot point for plot point, then just reread them and call it a day (or week, month.... how am I supposed to know how fast you read?).

They call these "adaptations" for a reason. It's a TV show "based" off the book series.

[cybobbie]

I'm perfect fine with the differences since for me it's so clear that they are to completely different medias. I really enjoyed last night's episode and the spoilers. I only didn't like some details things in it, like Sam telling Jon about Bran and Ghost being held in that cage that I can't get how they managed to put him in and how the cage can hold him, because it doesn't seem enough to hold a direwolf. Finally I also hope that Bran and Jon don't meet somehow, because I don't see it as a good change.

[JesterX]

I've said I disapprove of the Missandei/Grey Worm storyline because the show's already following so many to add a new one that's not even in the book. That's my major nitpick.

Going after the Craster mutineers is a departure from the books but it seems like a natural one. The same as the scene with Stannis sentencing Davos to death after he freed Gendry. It seems these were logical things to happen even if the book didn't cover them.

But at this point, you have to say the show's gone off on a lot of tangents from the book that's going to lead to different endings. At least for some of the characters.

[Fragile Bird]

The Show is NOT the books. If you want the books, plot point for plot point, then just reread them and call it a day (or week, month.... how am I supposed to know how fast you read?).

They call these "adaptations" for a reason. It's a TV show "based" off the book series.

On one hand that's a fair comment, but on the other hand the whole reason D&D were allowed to make the series was because they proved to George that they loved the books, they got the books, they understood George. So when we all were given this explanation, while we understand and expect that there will be variations, some have been mind blowing, some have been just plain annoying, and some have made people bloody angry. Or, at the least, unhappy.

When Robb's marriage arc was totally changed, for example, you immediately knew it was because the rest of Jeyne's story would be a cipher. I would have rather read that in the next book.

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

The Show is NOT the books. If you want the books, plot point for plot point, then just reread them and call it a day (or week, month.... how am I supposed to know how fast you read?).

They call these "adaptations" for a reason. It's a TV show "based" off the book series.

Of course I understand the show is not the books. There have been tons of books turned into movies/series they change things to make it better for the screen. It doesn't have to be point for point but I think that a show based on a book should stay as close as possible. Of course this is just my opinion. I am allowed to have it though...

[Ingelheim]

The Show is NOT the books. If you want the books, plot point for plot point, then just reread them and call it a day (or week, month.... how am I supposed to know how fast you read?).

They call these "adaptations" for a reason. It's a TV show "based" off the book series.

This is pure Martin dude. One of those thing Martin told D&D and we don't know yet. Sorry, but this is a spoiler, and a huge one. No one expected it, but we now know it.

[WildBlood]

I wasn't a fan of this episode. All the BS with BRan and then Ghost, and then Locke in the NW.... Ugh. The only part I liked was with the baby and the WW. Since the book never really gave us a view into what happened to Craster's baby boys when they were given, I thought that was interesting. But all the rest I thought was fabricated poorly and didn't even feel like I was watching Game of Thrones at all. :bang:

[Myrddin]

I would have rather read that in the next book.

There's the rub. The show will end in 2017 or 2018. The book series will not.

[chilammx]

Locke in the NW!!!
Lord Bolton ask him to get Bran or Rickon. And he decide to take the best way to achieve that is to get the black.

A sadistic pal of Ramsey Bolton. A nice fighter, but most of all a non-book character.

I am betting he will be pivotal in the new plot of the NW-Others-Bran-Jon Snow.

Maybe he is also a good slasher....

[jarl the climber]

I've said I disapprove of the Missandei/Grey Worm storyline because the show's already following so many to add a new one that's not even in the book. That's my major nitpick.

Going after the Craster mutineers is a departure from the books but it seems like a natural one. The same as the scene with Stannis sentencing Davos to death after he freed Gendry. It seems these were logical things to happen even if the book didn't cover them.

But at this point, you have to say the show's gone off on a lot of tangents from the book that's going to lead to different endings. At least for some of the characters.

I actually liked the Grey Worm/Missandei scene. It added a dimension to the characters that we have not gotten in the books. I like how their attitude changed when Dany walked into the tent, they sort of put their masks back on, they do not completely trust Dany and are following her for now for their own reasons.

The whole thing with Crasters is interesting, I sort of thought it was possible that Thorne and the other five Rangers that Jon sent out might have gone after the mutineers at Crasters on their own iniative and now they sort of flipped things with Thorne sending Jon.

[Roose Seal]

On one hand that's a fair comment, but on the other hand the whole reason D&D were allowed to make the series was because they proved to George that they loved the books, they got the books, they understood George. So when we all were given this explanation, while we understand and expect that there will be variations, some have been mind blowing, some have been just plain annoying, and some have made people bloody angry. Or, at the least, unhappy.

When Robb's marriage arc was totally changed, for example, you immediately knew it was because the rest of Jeyne's story would be a cipher. I would have rather read that in the next book.

You know, the longer the show goes on, the more I wonder if D&D aren't just two random writers HBO found (not to mention Benioff's connections) and the whole "nerds with no TV experience had a sit-down with GRRM and "Who is Jon Snow's mom?"" thing is not some apocryphal story the execs cooked up to add to the "mythology" of the genesis of show itself and to possibly instill confidence in a fanbase that was, at the time, only comprised of book readers. Like, "We know what we're doing, these two nerds have gained GRRM's trust".

Because at times it looks like D&D either have absolutely no respect for the source material or no idea what they're doing.

[Starksmustwin]

I'm not sure why book fans like this episode so much.

Because some of us realize that this is an adaptation? Because we know it's more difficult to show a persons nature and intent on TV/in movies than it is when you can read their every thought in a book? Some of the characters are different? Well, of course they are. All of the characters complexities have to be degraded for a media that only has minutes per episode to explain what these characters are doing and going through. They add in new scenes not in the book? Of course they do. No one wants to see Bran walking through snow for several episodes.

Seriously man, just go reread the books and be happy. It's very apparent that people like you only watch the show so you can complain about how it's ruining the books. Well, the books still exist in their entirety. Have at them.