Nox Irradiata Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I've seen loads of studio ghibli movies, I just haven't watched a lot of anime series. Death Note, Attack on Titan, Madoka, Kill la Kill, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood, part way through Cowboy Bebop and just finished Knights of Sidonia. I'm sure there's a series I'm missing and I've seen bits and bobs of other series like Pokemon and Avatar when I was younger. I might re-watch Avatar actually, my friend is rewatching it at the moment and is absolutely loving it.Bleach? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theda Baratheon Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Bleach? :) No thanks lol - doesn't seem like my sort of thing really. Avatar is amazing. Doesn't really count as an 'anime' though. Except in the most literal sense. Yeah, it doesn't really count I guess. I remember I used to love it, that's why I really wanna watch it then watch Legend of Korra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 polishgenius - Yeah, it's funny how few people actually picked up on how much The Hunger Games ripped Battle Royale off. Battle Royale, by its author's own admission, was inspired by The Running Man (the novel, not the movie) but the only actual lift, but just in the manga, was the disembowelment of Shinji Mimura as he tries to blow up the Programme's control centre re: the disembowelment of King's main character before he succeeds in doing the same. The main difference between The Hunger Games and Battle Royale is that in the latter the two biegest characters are the two that actually survive. The Hunger Games is vastly different in focus, theme and idea then Battle Royale and the author didn't even know BR existed apparently (which is totally believable) so it can't really have "ripped it off". The only similarity is both are about kids fighting in a death sport. And even then everything about how that is done is different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theda Baratheon Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Yeah, the whole death match thing isn't new to science fiction either is it. I think it's completely believable that the author had never heard of BR either and I'm not altogether that sure that they're even very similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I don't think they're particularly similar, I was just being kind of a dick. Yeah, the basic setup is similar but the reasoning both in the story and thematically behind it is very different.It's also a daft thing to say that few people picked up on the similarities. Anyone who's heard of Battle Royale did that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theda Baratheon Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Oh ya, I know everyone who's heard of Battle Royale makes a comment about Hunger Games but I just don't think it's unlikely that the author had never heard of Battle Royale. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Oh ya, I know everyone who's heard of Battle Royale makes a comment about Hunger Games but I just don't think it's unlikely that the author had never heard of Battle Royale. :P That comment was aimed at Killer Snark's post earlier in the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Killer Snark Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 There actually are marked similarities in setup, though. In both cases, we have a deathmatch among kids or young adults designed by the government as a means of exercising totalitarian control. In the English version of the manga of BR, as in The Hunger Games, this takes the form of a reality TV programme. The survivors in both cases are a boy and a girl he's had a long standing crush on, and they get romantically involved. In both cases, the contestants grab a pack at the start that contains a choice of weapon that may or may not prove useless and have to pick more up by killing other contestants. In both cases, contestants form factions to stay alive longer until the end. In both cases, there are changing no-go zones in order to keep contestants moving, and the most dangerous character is killed at the end by a joining together of the survivors after they've mostly winged it through the games by trying to keep a low profile, though Kateniss is far more active than the BR survivors mostly were. Also, the lead male character at one point requires medical help and the lead girl almost gets killed trying to get it, but gets rescued by another contestant, in an identical situation as arises in BR with the lead male seeking attention for the lead girl when she comes down with a fever. Both death matches take place in a huge forest. Both are prepared for via an instructional video featuring an inappropriately chirpy hostess in both The Hunger Games and the BR movie adaptation. Both deathmatches feature updates on the dead for the benefit of contestants and they are monitored always by tracking devices. Etcetera. I simply think that Suzanne Collins is being very disingenuous if she insists she wrote the novel without knowledge of either the novel or the manga of Battle Royale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theda Baratheon Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I still don't think they're that similar, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamjm Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I still don't think they're that similar, lol. I think it's easy to come up with a list of similarities and also easy to come up with a list of differences. I think there are definitely similarities between the film of Battle Royale and The Hunger Games but a lot of the ideas have been used elsewhere as well (even if not necessarily all at the same time) so I'm not sure how much it really matters. I think the best thing about the comparisons is that it gave us this joke: What do they call The Hunger Games in France? Battle Royale with Cheese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theda Baratheon Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 There definitely are similarities but the same with plenty of other movies. Hahahhahaha i like the joke tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 There actually are marked similarities in setup, though. In both cases, we have a deathmatch among kids or young adults designed by the government as a means of exercising totalitarian control. In the English version of the manga of BR, as in The Hunger Games, this takes the form of a reality TV programme. Right and this is where they WIDELY diverge. THG is all about the ideas behind it's reality TV framing. The power of messaging and propaganda and how it feels to be propaganda. (it is not a coincidence that Katniss wins by being the biggest star on the show) The survivors in both cases are a boy and a girl he's had a long standing crush on, and they get romantically involved. In both cases, the contestants grab a pack at the start that contains a choice of weapon that may or may not prove useless and have to pick more up by killing other contestants. Neither of these are accurate descriptions of what goes on in THG. In both cases, contestants form factions to stay alive longer until the end. In both cases, there are changing no-go zones in order to keep contestants moving, and the most dangerous character is killed at the end by a joining together of the survivors after they've mostly winged it through the games by trying to keep a low profile, though Kateniss is far more active than the BR survvors mostly were. Also, the lead male character at one point requires medical help and the lead girl almost gets killed trying to get it, but gets rescued by another contestant, in an identical situation as arises in BR with the lead male seeking attention for the lead girl when she comes down with a fever. Both death matches take place in a huge forest. Both are prepared for via an instructional video featuring an inappropriately chirpy hostess in both The Hunger Games and the BR movie adaptation. Both deathmatches feature updates on the dead for the benefit of contestants and they are monitored always by tracking devices. Etcetera. And this is a whole collection of the same kind of thing. Similarities that are trivial or obvious for any story anything like this (eg - people forming groups to survive) or things that are just not that accurate in order to shoe-horn in more similarities. I simply think that Suzanne Collins is being very disingenuous if she insists she wrote the novel without knowledge of either the novel or the manga of Battle Royale. Why? Battle Royale is not exactly a fairly obscure work in the west so it's incredibly likely she's never read/seen it. The similarities are extremely vague and basically come down to both involving death sport with children, a premise that is not even close to unique enough to require knowledge of Battle Royale to come up with. And once you actually go past said premise, the two stories diverge wildly in how they are framed, how they play out, what they are all about and what ideas they explore. The idea that THG is a rip-off of BR is just not very credible and a silly complaint regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Killer Snark Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I'll say this, and I'll have said my piece. I've seen the same arguments used elsewhere in defence of there being no blatant similarity, when of course there is, and they simply don't hold water. Battle Royale has its historical and cultural reference-points and antecedents. Most novels do. It's the extent to which they transfigure them into something that hasn't been used before that determines their originality. Of course, The Hunger Games is different, as a narrative, in a bunch of ways to Battle Royale, but the difference is mainly stylistic, and these differences are necessary for it to hold up as not a total plagiarism. Battle Royale does not actually have much to do with any of the things that are normally claimed with it as reference points. It has next to nothing to do with The Running Man, nothing to do with Lord of the Flies, and nothing much to do with the sci-fi film Gridlock, which it appropriated its exploding collars from. But THG lifts its entire specific concept and many of its finer details directly from the actually very original Battle Royale. One could equally make a case that someone doing a conceptual, point by point, redoing over of ASOIAF is not ripping off GRR Martin because he himself was influenced by a bunch of other historical and cultural referents. It wouldn't hold any water, though, since what ASOIAF does is wholly as original as any fantasy series is permitted. An equal argument could be made for a novel series that rips off Twilight on the basis that vampires existed before Twilight, as did books like Dracula. The argument would have no bearing. It is absolutely obvious that Suzanne Collins did base THG on Battle Royale. Now, if we're talking about movies, then I'm of the opinion that THG is a better film than BR, but I'm discussing this issue from the perspective of the BR novel and manga. I happen to like the Hunger Games films. But that doesn't cloud my objectivity. There are simply far too many obvious reference points for Collins not to have previously read BR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l2 0 5 5 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Just finished S5 of The Shield... Damn this whole season with Kavanaugh has been insane. Forrest Whittaker did a helluva job making me despise him. I felt so bad for Lem and everything he had to go through. Seems like a decent dude. Shane talking himself into killing Lem was shocking. I had a bad feeling about it as soon as Shane started talking about the daughter that he and his wife were going to have. He seemed to be voicing reasons why he needed to off Lem and save his ass. His expression after the explosion was pretty sad. I imagine this is gonna burden Shane for the rest of the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theda Baratheon Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I was only talking movies because this is the watched thread...never read the novels. Battle royale is bonkers but the second hunger games movie is vastly superior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I'll say this, and I'll have said my piece. I've seen the same arguments used elsewhere in defence of there being no blatant similarity, when of course there is, and they simply don't hold water. Battle Royale has its historical and cultural reference-points and antecedents. Most novels do. It's the extent to which they transfigure them into something that hasn't been used before that determines their originality. Of course, The Hunger Games is different, as a narrative, in a bunch of ways to Battle Royale, but the difference is mainly stylistic, and these differences are necessary for it to hold up as not a total plagiarism. Battle Royale does not actually have much to do with any of the things that are normally claimed with it as reference points. It has next to nothing to do with The Running Man, nothing to do with Lord of the Flies, and nothing much to do with the sci-fi film Gridlock, which it appropriated its exploding collars from. But THG lifts its entire specific concept and many of its finer details directly from the actually very original Battle Royale. One could equally make a case that someone doing a conceptual, point by point, redoing over of ASOIAF is not ripping off GRR Martin because he himself was influenced by a bunch of other historical and cultural referents. It wouldn't hold any water, though, since what ASOIAF does is wholly as original as any fantasy series is permitted. An equal argument could be made for a novel series that rips off Twilight on the basis that vampires existed before Twilight, as did books like Dracula. The argument would have no bearing. It is absolutely obvious that Suzanne Collins did base THG on Battle Royale. Now, if we're talking about movies, then I'm of the opinion that THG is a better film than BR, but I'm discussing this issue from the perspective of the BR novel and manga. I happen to like the Hunger Games films. But that doesn't cloud my objectivity. There are simply far too many obvious reference points for Collins not to have previously read BR. No it's not. And your continued dogged insistence that it is is just silly and stinks of pointless "BR is great, THG is a rip-off!!!!" fanboyism. The differences between THG and BR are FAR more then stylistic. They are right down to the core of what the books are about. It does not lift it's specific concept or it's finer details from BR. It merely has the same general premise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Antony Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Just finished S5 of The Shield... Damn this whole season with Kavanaugh has been insane. Forrest Whittaker did a helluva job making me despise him. I felt so bad for Lem and everything he had to go through. Seems like a decent dude. Shane talking himself into killing Lem was shocking. I had a bad feeling about it as soon as Shane started talking about the daughter that he and his wife were going to have. He seemed to be voicing reasons why he needed to off Lem and save his ass. His expression after the explosion was pretty sad. I imagine this is gonna burden Shane for the rest of the series.Such a brilliant season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I need to watch Battle Royale, to be honest though, I found the second hunger games movie only a mildly better version of the first one. I wouldn't call either of THG movies good ones. Similar or not similar, that's not a debate that particularly interests me but it'll be interesting to see how that concept is executed in a different movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I need to watch Battle Royale, to be honest though, I found the second hunger games movie only a mildly better version of the first one. I wouldn't call either of THG good movies. Similar or not similar, that's not a debated that particularly interests me but it'll be interesting to see how that concept is executed in a different movie. I felt Battle Royale was significantly more sadistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I've heard that the movie is certainly more memorable than the hunger games. I'll probably watch it this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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