Daenarys controversial but Stannis isn't?

[The Drunkard]

What about the wildlings? They were requested to burn weirwoods branches to being allowed to pass. It's symbolic of them HAVING to renounce their beliefs so they wouldn't die. They agreed because seeing their King die meant they were defeated and they were desperate. That's one of the reasons why Jon realises Stannis' offer would mean to renounce to his father's Gods, IICR.

They were, but I was talking pre-Blackwater.

I'd also argue the wildlings are a special case, given it's the first time in recorded history a king has offered them sanctuary behind the Wall.

[Mithras]

Stannis is significantly worse than Dany.

Stannis let his older brother die so he could claim the throne is his by rights.

Stannis burns people to death in order to fuel his blood magic.

Stannis feigns compassion for the NW and the North just to get them to support him in his further conquest of Westeros.

Seriously Stannis needs to die soon.

Assume that we read Stannis POVs instead of Dany's.

Dany is significantly worse than Stannis.

Dany let her older brother die so her son could claim the throne is his by rights.

Dany burns people to death in order to fuel her blood magic.

Dany feigns compassion for the slaves just to get them to support her without being paid in her further conquest of Westeros.

Seriously Dany needs to die soon.

[Mithras]

Stannis is much more problematic than Dany. He is a good ruler, b ut if he takes the Iron Throne a great turmoil will happens. He is too inflexible and don;t know how to play the political game and probably he will seek revenge against the Tyrells and other houses and can make more enemies.

But, the main problem is Mellisandre and her Red God. The faith will never accept him and now with the Faith Militant he will suffer a lot. When he propose to Jon Snow to legitimize him he order to Jon take down the weirwood as part of the agreement and I no doubt he will force other noble houses to do the same, burn weirwoods, destroy septs and persecute the infidels. It is by far much worse than Dany could do. And no, she have no sign of the Targaryen madness.

Dany is much more problematic than Stannis. She is not a good ruler, and if she takes the Iron Throne a great turmoil will happens. She is too fickle and don;t know how to play the political game and definitely she will seek revenge against the Usurper's Dogs and other houses and can make more enemies.

But, the main problem is Benerro and his Red God. The faith will never accept her and now with the Faith Militant she will suffer a lot. And yes, she has given signs of Aerysian lapses.

[Mithras]

I think he's joking. But some people do dislike Dany for being a "emotional" girl (while give other male characters excuses when they act the same way) and other praise Stannis for being The Mannis.

But we can also argue that many Dany fans love her for being a girl. In fact, George gave Dany tremendous amount of power and if he did that with a male character, I can almost hear the outrage.

[Anythingatall]

Dany is significantly worse than Stannis.

Dany let her older brother die so her son could claim the throne is his by rights.

Dany burns people to death in order to fuel her blood magic.

Dany feigns compassion for the slaves just to get them to support her without being paid in her further conquest of Westeros.

Seriously Dany needs to die soon.

Dany lets her brother die as he was threatening her and her childs life. We have no reason to think it was for any other reason, indeed doesn't she say after he was her king?

Stannis also burns people to fuel magic.

Dany bemoans that the slaves are coming with her. She actually wishes they would stay but doesn't know how she can deny them their choice now she has freed them.

Honestly I get you hate her and you make some good points some times but lying about stuff in the book isn't likely to convince anyone.

[Mithras]

Dany lets her brother die as he was threatening her and her childs life. We have no reason to think it was for any other reason, indeed doesn't she say after he was her king?

Stannis also burns people to fuel magic.

Dany bemoans that the slaves are coming with her. She actually wishes they would stay but doesn't know how she can deny them their choice now she has freed them.

Honestly I get you hate her and you make some good points some times but lying about stuff in the book isn't likely to convince anyone.

My point is that we do not have Stannis POV so that we could read his inner thoughts. If we are to judge these two, we should do it on fair grounds. Many of things that are used to bash Stannis can equally be used to bash Dany. In fact, these two are quite parallel to each other.

[Anythingatall]

My point is that we do not have Stannis POV so that we could read his inner thoughts. If we are to judge these two, we should do it on fair grounds. Many of things that are used to bash Stannis can equally be used to bash Dany. In fact, these two are quite parallel to each other.

Oh d'oh. Yeah that's fair point well made (if I had understood it).

[Kienn]

Assume that we read Stannis POVs instead of Dany's.

Dany is significantly worse than Stannis.

Dany let her older brother die so her son could claim the throne is his by rights.

Dany burns people to death in order to fuel her blood magic.

Dany feigns compassion for the slaves just to get them to support her without being paid in her further conquest of Westeros.

Seriously Dany needs to die soon.

Yay only 5 pages before someone got it!

[Bronn Urgandy]

They are both controversial!

What I think is funny is that most Stannis' fans hate Dany and most Dany's fans hate Stannis when I actually think they are pretty similar: they are both really stubborn, they both see ruling as a duty and as a right, they do care about the well being of their people, they both committed atrocities in the name of justice but are not bad people, they both think that they are better than they actually are etc!

Sometimes I think about them as the severe father and the rebel daughter haha! :ph34r:

I agree, to quote myself from another thread because I am proper arrogant like that;

Stannis and Dany with their basically interchangeable dialogue.

"I suppose I am indirectly responsible for my brothers death and now my families claim rests almost solely on my shoulders." "Bitch please."

"I burn those who I deem traitors." "Bitch please."

"I once marched my army through inhospitable conditions where many died because Comet." "Bitch please, except Winterfell."

"I once landed up in a situation where it was essential I take the nearest city otherwise my army would starve." "Bitch please."

"My claim is the only true one." "Bitch please."

"I condone torture when absolutely necessary." "Bitch please."

"I broke a truce to win a battle." "Shadowbaby."

There is probably more.

EDIT; "Some people think my methods of justice are a bit excessive." "Bitch please."

"I've helped bring an entire continent to its knees while posing as its saviour." "Bitch please."

"I continue to insult, name usurper and wish death on some of the more popular characters in this series while refusing to accept or listen to their reasons for doing so." "Bitch please."

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

Imma just mention that what we're observing here and now, is Stannis apparently not being controversial at all. As usual.

:leaving:

[A spoon of knife and fork]

I think the OP's point that the characters' actions and motivations are very similar is correct, and it is quite funny to watch certain posters criticize one or the other but not both for very similar things.

They are both driven by a combination of personal ambition, a sense of upholding their feudal/familial obligations, and a desire to save people. I think their reasons for seeking the throne are so similar as to make no difference, and overall admirable in both cases.

I honestly don't hold Renly against Stannis, any more than I hold Viserys against Dany because we aren't 100% sure that he knew what he was doing (no PoV of whatever Melisandre told him), plus we are shown Stannis is haunted by his death. Viserys is slightly more understandable, since with him we can see that he was a disgusting abuser, whereas Renly wasn't. I understand why Brienne wants vengeance, though, as well.

Criticizing Stannis for burning people to death instead of beheading them... meh. If you're going to die, yeah burning is brutal, but these are the times they live in. Like Dany crucifying the slavers, I don't hold it against him all that much. I do think the people he burns to death are usually less deserving of death than those Dany crucifies, except in the case of the tavern keeps' daughters (Dany's single most evil act), so in the end it's a wash between them. Both of them torture people they shouldn't, though they have their reasons.

They are both more similar than different. I think if you're gonna criticize one you'd better be ready to criticize the other (I'm not going to say you have to defend both - you can choose not to defend someone simply because you don't like them).

[The Killer Snark]

Daenarys supporters tend to assume that people are more willing to overlook Stannis' deficencies over those of Dany because of unacknowledged gender bias. That isn't really true. There's a lot of women who can't stand Dany but are massive Stannis fans. Vice versa applies also. If anything, Stannis is only less contentious, if he is, because his faults are so apparent no one bothers to excuse them. They do with Dany, though, because she has more recognisable humanistic traits, so it's easier to read hypocrisy into her character when her deficiencies are revealed..

[Eden-Mackenzie]

For stannis to say someone did their duty (teehee) is a massive compliment

Is it though? I always read this as Stannis just saying "Yeah, Ned did what was expected of him, as he should, and as I always did, so I don't blame him for taking the job when Robert offered it, but really that job should have been mine." Stannis does not seem to be the type to praise someone for simply doing their duty, since by definition it is what they're supposed to do. He could just as easily be discussing the stable boy who brought him his horse that morning.

I do wonder if Stannis would have acted differently had he known Ned died in no small part because he was preparing to put Stannis on throne, although he probably would have just chalked that up to duty as well.

[Ser Arthur Hightower]

Assume that we read Stannis POVs instead of Dany's.

Dany is significantly worse than Stannis.

Dany let her older brother die so her son could claim the throne is his by rights.

Dany burns people to death in order to fuel her blood magic.

Dany feigns compassion for the slaves just to get them to support her without being paid in her further conquest of Westeros.

Seriously Dany needs to die soon.

:agree:

We don't fully understand Stannis' internal motivation, and it is incorrect to assume that his motives are always pure and just, it is equally incorrect to believe they are always selfish. It is especially ironic because nobody is a fan of only POV characters, and any character who isn't a POV character can by that methodology of character be judged to be entirely morally bankrupt, regardless of their actions.

[Ser Arthur Hightower]

I agree, to quote myself from another thread because I am proper arrogant like that;

You've done it Bronn, Stannis and Dany are identical!

[sifth]

I use to like Dany..........until her dragons started eating children. I love how she just let her 3 little monsters just fly free and do whatever they wanted until the start of ADWD.

[Gibzit]

I use to like Dany..........until her dragons started eating children. I love how she just let her 3 little monsters just fly free and do whatever they wanted until the start of ADWD.

Chaining dragons up isn't very good for their health, (just look at Drogon compared to Viserion) so I understand why Dany was hesitant.

[John Doe]

I always find it interesting when people say Dany is going to be this tyrant or succumb to this Targaryen madness ( even though Rhaegar was nothing like his father Aerys but Viserys was definitely a look into what Aerys probably acted like in his youth) but for some reason Stannis is not? I mean seriously we don't see Stannis has this potential tyrant but for some reason Dany is because of some decisions she has made? I find it a bit hypocritical is all I'm saying and I notice this pattern when it comes to female characters and male characters in terms of rulership.

Dany doesn't really need to die in all honesty she may be a person Jon looks to ironically for help or if you guys are into the whole Jon/Dany thing? I have issues wih Stannis has a whole but I noticed people give him a pass when it comes to certain things and Dany oh my god she is the next Joseph Stalin because of such and such.

Because they are two totally different persons?

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Because they are two totally different persons?

Stannis has dragon blood. Just like Shireen, who has Dragon dreams. Different as they can be, he has all the "potential" to end up mad and cruel, as much as Dany or Jon. Or even Aegon.

[Minsc]

I do think the people he burns to death are usually less deserving of death than those Dany crucifies, except in the case of the tavern keeps' daughters (Dany's single most evil act), so in the end it's a wash between them. Both of them torture people they shouldn't, though they have their reasons.

Dany didn't crucify the winekeeper's daughters.