Rant and Rave without Repercussion [Book Spoilers]

[ummester]

With some flaws here and there, the first 2 seasons were short of excellent to me. Then, the strength of the show went mostly, as you say, to the actors. Michael C. Hall and Jennifer Carpenter always great, and some memorable villains, especially John Lithgow and Ray Stevenson. At least it remained hit-and-miss highly entertaining, until that dreadful last season.

Yes, that last season sucked so hard.

I'm a Lumberjack and I'm ok, I sleep all night and I work all day!

I cut down trees, I eat my lunch, I go to the lavatory.

On Wednesday's I go shoppin' and have buttered scones for tea.

If GoTs ends up sucking that much, I will rant and rage against it :D It could do, I'm not saying it can't. But, just as a matter of a reality check, so could the books.

[LadySharpTeeth]

I can't disagree with any of this. And it's sort of what I'm getting at with Olenna (once again, assuming she's the mastermind) not really being shown, even in the books, as really being the player and grooming anyone to take her place. What are the Tyrells gonna do when she passes?! I think they're screwed if that happens any time soon.

Not unlike the Lannisters and the Boltons.

[moey reed]

Yeah, thinking of details like travel limitations for this show is ridiculous.

In fact, this whole discussion is absurd, because D&D will never choose the simple and logic solution when they can go with a more shocking one.

and remember season 1, when robert and entourage came to winterfell and i think cersei said something like we've been on the road for months the crypts can wait..

good'ol times

[LadySharpTeeth]

Well, to be honest, they were travelling with a large party and a large wheelhouse for the queen. I think Cat made the trip in a couple weeks but there was a ship voyage involved.

[SunSpearViper]

I love how the show creators complain they're running out of material yet they feel compelled to the Wall plot at ludicrous speed. It's a damn shame of you ask me. But I'm sure all those brothel scenes were super important to the story.

I agree. I have many problems with the way this show is being written but whatever. My main question is "what's the fucking rush?". I don't get it. In season 1 we get damn near scene for scene, shot for shot, verbatim from the books. It should have been evident at the outset that GRRM wasn't pumping out books at a snails clip, So why cut as many scenes and characters and lines as they have? I just don't get it. Someone tell GRRM that a book doesn't have to be 1,000 pages long to be complete. It's getting to point that I'm beginning not to care about The Winds of Winter or about how this story ends at all. That makes me both sad and angry at the same time.

[Tijgy]

I just think Got is just trying the same problems in writing as other shows who are longer than one or two seasons: inconsistency, ...

At one moment, I start to find the shows going on too long and they should end.

Got has in one way still the luxury that it still is one story that needs to be told. A lot of other shows are just reinventing themselves, ... And the only reason why they still make those shows is because they know they are popular and they probably make a lot of money.

All lot of series I watch now is just for entertainment. I have no delusion they are the best tv. The tv, which I think has good quality, are actually mini-series ( La meglio giuventu (The Best of Youth); Il Capo dei Capi (Corleone); De Parelvissers (One of the best Flemish tv I have ever seen)

The reason why I dont like Got as an adaption is (like other people mentioned) they are changing stoylines but still keep the great moments in. But then those great moments make no sense

They don't use the iconic lines. Or if they use them, they let them be said by other people who make no sense.

And then you have all those gratuitous sex scenes.

[dannyk65]

I agree. I have many problems with the way this show is being written but whatever. My main question is "what's the fucking rush?". I don't get it. In season 1 we get damn near scene for scene, shot for shot, verbatim from the books. It should have been evident at the outset that GRRM wasn't pumping out books at a snails clip, So why cut as many scenes and characters and lines as they have? I just don't get it. Someone tell GRRM that a book doesn't have to be 1,000 pages long to be complete. It's getting to point that I'm beginning not to care about The Winds of Winter or about how this story ends at all. That makes me both sad and angry at the same time.

Full agreement until the snails pace part....they made a show based upon the books which started out terrific....as they adapted and followed the well-laid out template in front of them. Then they shit the bed by trying to enhance material still (publicly) existing by twisting/changing/modifying/skullfucking the template they already had

[Johnsmith]

I agree. I have many problems with the way this show is being written but whatever. My main question is "what's the fucking rush?". I don't get it. In season 1 we get damn near scene for scene, shot for shot, verbatim from the books. It should have been evident at the outset that GRRM wasn't pumping out books at a snails clip, So why cut as many scenes and characters and lines as they have? I just don't get it. Someone tell GRRM that a book doesn't have to be 1,000 pages long to be complete. It's getting to point that I'm beginning not to care about The Winds of Winter or about how this story ends at all. That makes me both sad and angry at the same time.

Are you insane? A book is as long as any author takes to get their story written, and published. This any author will do at their own pace, not for anybody else's benefit. Unless contracted otherwise..

As it happens The Winds of Winter has a far bigger scope than you can possibly imagine. The whole time we have been reading the words Winter is Coming, well it will have arrived, the coldest winter. Any condensed version won't likely cut it

[StepStark]

It's perfectly ok to not like GoTs - but it's kind of deluded to deny it's having a very big effect on entertainment and television, possibly more than Sopranos, at the least equal to.

No what is deluded is to think that GOT is having bigger effect on television than Sopranos believe me. Maybe you didn't watch Sopranos when they were originally run but I was and they were literally the revolution for television. and right after Sopranos you had Wire and Deadwood all in span of few years also in HBO and then Shield and others. All of that was possible because of Sopranos and effect it had on entire television as a medium. There is television before Sopranos and there is television after Sopranos. GOT so far didn't inspire any similar show. With their rating of course they are cultural impact but that is the same kind of impact shows like Lost had but that is nowhere near what Sopranos did.

[Johnsmith]

With some flaws here and there, the first 2 seasons were short of excellent to me. Then, the strength of the show went mostly, as you say, to the actors. Michael C. Hall and Jennifer Carpenter always great, and some memorable villains, especially John Lithgow and Ray Stevenson. At least it remained hit-and-miss highly entertaining, until that dreadful last season.

The show stopped becoming Dexter when it became his sister and their lumberjack. American shows have a way of doing that throughout their seasons. The scriptwriters never write an endings, hoping they will get franchised down the road in the numbers game. The when an ending does happen, it is often phooey, stinks so much, rushed into we just gonna quit now. Anybody here even gonna attempt watching Hannibal after season 2, I mean why would you?

[kefln]

Why did they have to puts stupid, stupid words in Davos' mouth? "Youre oath says you're "the shield that guards the realms of men, so even though you're now Lord Commander of the only thing standing between those realms and the wintry apocalypse, do Stannis a solid and please ignore the rest of your silly vows that say you 'shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children' and that you 'shall wear no crowns and win no glory'. Is it really that much too ask?"

I love how the show creators complain they're running out of material yet they feel compelled to the Wall plot at ludicrous speed. It's a damn shame of you ask me. But I'm sure all those brothel scenes were super important to the story.

Davos is Stannis's man, who wanted Jon to join the campaign. The whole point of those "stupid words" was to remind Jon of where all these people, the Nights watch, come from and who they are fighting for. It’s not the most elegant argument. But it might be enough to get a small ball rolling in the back of Jon's mind.

The Nights watch are politically neutral, that’s what protects them from all the Lords in the South. It’s what allows them to take on prisoners, or those fleeing their problems. It’s a life sentence, so no one cares what happens to them. And that’s part of the problem too. They called for help in their time of need and no one responded, least until Stannis lost his fight in KL and spent a while sulking about it.

Davos words could easily be interpreted as hinting that maybe it’s time for the role of the Nights watch to change. They don’t have the support of the Starks any more. The Wildlings have lost their threatening power for the moment. Could they have another role?

That’s just my thoughts on it.

Are the shows creators complaining that they are running out of material? I thought that like every other fan of ASOIF that they would like the book series to be finished? Is it really a criticism of D&D to want the same thing that those of us that have been waiting since the late 90’s want as well?

As for the Wall v’s the Brothel argument, there is so much story to tell in 10 episodes that pacing is important.

The main storyline at the Wall is that Jon gets elected and from there the story progresses. Every watcher of the TV series, and the book readers, know what the wall is, that set has been used in nearly every series, we all know the politics. We all know what a massive achievement it is to become LC at such a young age. Dragging that story out doesn’t develop it, or improve it, it just wastes time. He gets elected, that is whats important.

Back in KL, a lot of TV watchers need an introduction to who the Sparrows are, what they represent. What they are against. Its needed so that the story can progress. This could be done by dialog, but that means little. In visual terms having a naked man beaten in the street has huge impact. However that needs context, else the elderly naked man would be seen as a victim. Showing him in the brothel, being a man of God, using prostitutes to make a mockery of his own faith paints him in a very bad light. He is no longer a victim. The audience will have little sympathy. So when Cersei visits the High Sparrow, this shoeless man feeding the poor, the impact is immediate.

Within a simple couple of scenes, in one episode, Jon has been elevated and tested, and the corruption of KL has yet again been pointed out. That is, IMHO, the simple reasons for how it all played out.

[kissdbyfire]

Not sure I fully comprehend what you're dishin' here, but I like the show......especially this season due to THIS thread

Stop replying, just ignore. :)

[Johnsmith]

Davos is Stannis's man, who wanted Jon to join the campaign. The whole point of those "stupid words" was to remind Jon of where all these people, the Nights watch, come from and who they are fighting for. It’s not the most elegant argument. But it might be enough to get a small ball rolling in the back of Jon's mind.

The Nights watch are politically neutral, that’s what protects them from all the Lords in the South. It’s what allows them to take on prisoners, or those fleeing their problems. It’s a life sentence, so no one cares what happens to them. And that’s part of the problem too. They called for help in their time of need and no one responded, least until Stannis lost his fight in KL and spent a while sulking about it.

Davos words could easily be interpreted as hinting that maybe it’s time for the role of the Nights watch to change. They don’t have the support of the Starks any more. The Wildlings have lost their threatening power for the moment. Could they have another role?

That’s just my thoughts on it.

Are the shows creators complaining that they are running out of material? I thought that like every other fan of ASOIF that they would like the book series to be finished? Is it really a criticism of D&D to want the same thing that those of us that have been waiting since the late 90’s want as well?

As for the Wall v’s the Brothel argument, there is so much story to tell in 10 episodes that pacing is important.

The main storyline at the Wall is that Jon gets elected and from there the story progresses. Every watcher of the TV series, and the book readers, know what the wall is, that set has been used in nearly every series, we all know the politics. We all know what a massive achievement it is to become LC at such a young age. Dragging that story out doesn’t develop it, or improve it, it just wastes time. He gets elected, that is whats important.

Back in KL, a lot of TV watchers need an introduction to who the Sparrows are, what they represent. What they are against. Its needed so that the story can progress. This could be done by dialog, but that means little. In visual terms having a naked man beaten in the street has huge impact. However that needs context, else the elderly naked man would be seen as a victim. Showing him in the brothel, being a man of God, using prostitutes to make a mockery of his own faith paints him in a very bad light. He is no longer a victim. The audience will have little sympathy. So when Cersei visits the High Sparrow, this shoeless man feeding the poor, the impact is immediate.

Within a simple couple of scenes, in one episode, Jon has been elevated and tested, and the corruption of KL has yet again been pointed out. That is, IMHO, the simple reasons for how it all played out.

Within so much flaw unrecognisable to any prior information seen and shown. Any impact made is through in a bunch of pictures, not through any story. I have given up on the dialogue and simply watch this show on fastforward, hoping then it will make sense to any previous sceens, although still it struggles.

Let us look at Davos and Stannis where were they last Season? Prior to the Wall they were battering a deal in Braavos with the IronBank. They went straight to the Wall with a vast sum of money instead of getting a large army and sailing for KL. He is the richest king of the wall, but what good is that. The one true king needs to defeat the night terrors, instead of becoming the one true king? Why when the Iron Bank had just paid them to retake the throne are they at the Wall freezing.

Kings Landing the Sparrows are going against the best champion in the realm one of the kings own guard? He is gay that must mean he isn't a fighter. Attacking a speton who isn't being guarded or even silenced before any revolt. Lets let them carry out the kings justice. Because Cersei has said so. WTF is this, right after a king was crowned? Are you insane or just deliriously mad?

This is happening everywhere there is no continuity in this show at all

[kissdbyfire]

But shes shown no interest in power, just in social status. (Or am I missing something, this is an honest question.)

Full disclosure: Im writing a piece about this and I want to make sure Im not missing anything obvious.

What they've shown so far of Marg Boleyn is that she wants to be a celebrity. Like, she'd want to be n Big Brother or Survivor or something like that. But for Carol's fears to be justified, they'll have to add something else. Since characters don't need any consistency in the show, they'll probably add whatever they need to the mix, regardless of it not making sense or not being consistent with what they've shown of the show character so far.

ps: can't wait to read your piece!

[The Northern Scholar]

Yes, that last season sucked so hard.I'm a Lumberjack and I'm ok, I sleep all night and I work all day!I cut down trees, I eat my lunch, I go to the lavatory.On Wednesday's I go shoppin' and have buttered scones for tea.If GoTs ends up sucking that much, I will rant and rage against it :D It could do, I'm not saying it can't. But, just as a matter of a reality check, so could the books.

Whenever I think of particularly bad endings (Dexter, HIMYM, Lost) I can't help but be amazed at the fact that the Wire's last season is still really entertaining despite being really bad compared to the first four. Just goes to show you what a high standard that show set.

[Johnsmith]

Please don't try to explain because the pictures make so much sense?

Stannis cannot hire any army not from nowhere, because gold doesn't buy allies. He is needed in the Narth for this story to continue. Ignore the money and his claim to the throne because the Narth is where it is at.

Meanwhile in Kings Landing those mega rich Tryells having paid for all the expensive King Joff weeding are broke they cannot even command any soldiers who were killed on the Blackwater and their champion the kingsguardman is gay. Cersei controls Kingslanding allowing rabble to rule every stationed structured command post. This has not been show she commanded the master of Tyrell coin to take a holiday, I suppose he took off with their army too. High Spetons are paraded through Kings Landing and any revolt is not crushed within order of the realm. Because no wait she can manipulate religion to her whim as well all the kingdom within in such paraded detail

[kissdbyfire]

I was just kidding because I honestly have no idea what Margaery wants on the show (or, to be sure, in the books either - I just know that Mace Tyrell wants her to be Queen, and I guess on the show, it was Marge herself who wanted that. (For that matter, why is Loras, heir to Highgarden, still hanging out in King's Landing when he's not in the Kingsguard and isn't there to protect his sister? KL isn't the "London season" of Regency novels, it doesn't seem like the great lords and/or their heirs just hang out there unless they have some business to conduct ...)

The show needs Marge to be an antagonist to Carol, so that we will be sympathetic to Carol when she has her big unfortunate moment later on, and so they changed Margaery from a relatively innocent sixteen-year-old whom Cersei basically frames in a pretty horrible way (in terms of the consequences, because isn't it high treason for her to be "cheating" on Tommen, and thus punishable by death?) into a scheming, power-hungry manipulator (one who, however, for some reason wasn't in on the plans to off Joffrey in season 4.)

Unfortunately I think he is there so that he can be betrayed by Olyvar. Like, that's the sum of show!Loras' purpose, and that's just sad.

[kefln]

Within so much flaw unrecognisable to any prior information seen and shown. Any impact made is through in a bunch of pictures, not through any story. I have given up on the dialogue and simply watch this show on fastforward, hoping then it will make sense to any previous sceens, although still it struggles.

Let us look at Davos and Stannis where were they last Season? Prior to the Wall they were battering a deal in Braavos with the IronBank. They went straight to the Wall with a vast sum of money instead of getting a large army and sailing for KL. He is the richest king of the wall, but what good is that. The one true king needs to defeat the night terrors, instead of becoming the one true king? Why when the Iron Bank had just paid them to retake the throne are they at the Wall freezing.

Kings Landing the Sparrows are going against the best champion in the realm one of the kings own guard? He is gay that must mean he isn't a fighter. Attacking a speton who isn't being guarded or even silenced before any revolt. Lets let them carry out the kings justice. Because Cersei has said so. WTF is this, right after a king was crowned? Are you insane or just deliriously mad?

This is happening everywhere there is no continuity in this show at all

Sorry, I'm confused.

If you watch the show on fast forward, ignoring dialogue, then how do you expect the show to make sense?

And the you are knocking the core story by GRRM? So you don't believe the story/books and you don't like the TV show?

[Johnsmith]

Sorry, I'm confused.

If you watch the show on fast forward, ignoring dialogue, then how do you expect the show to make sense?

And the you are knocking the core story by GRRM? So you don't believe the story/books and you don't like the TV show?

Confused.com Although tell me why you have choosen to ignore my answer? This show is found in the pictures as stipulated when the story isn't completely there and lacking. What dialogue? This shown stories dialogue within given ignored example.

I read the books I rereading them as we speak. Painfully noticing how much character interaction has also been removed throughout, the many character sceens of bonding found within season one often containing emotion and reaction, dissipated, producing crouch, and vulgarity. Many of the specific histories, lineages, pertaining to each realm those many details found on sigil and armour removed.

Although within previous comment, I was directly asking how the story shown in this present season makes even an iota of common sense? Apart from trying to tie up any pieces together, placing them, as possibly coming up within a similar line of adaptation. This one dies, is in this place, so it doesn't have to make much sense so long as they die, or needless to say too much else.

[Cas Stark]

Didn't Book Marg give Tommen GOOD ADVICE on ruling? Didn't Book Marg encourage him to attend his Small Council meetings himself? Or am I crazy?

Everyone says poor Book Marg wasn't fleshed out, but if you look for her, she's in there.....doing PR in King's Landing, throwing her money around to merchants, ridiing around in public, bringing her own posse/security perimeter with her. There is every indication that Book Marg would have steered Tommen to be a good ruler. Sure, he would have been a Tyrell puppet in all things related to Highgarden, but her book self isn't blabbing about sailing and planning to keep him in the bedroom for the duration.