UK Politics: You Didn't See That Coming

[Inigima]

Right, yeah, I get the difference between mainland politics and elsewhere. The reason I bring it up is, do you have a clear option if you're a lefty in the UK?

If not, then is it really a surprise when the Tories win? If there's no defined left-wing party, does the left fragment? Does it stay home in greater numbers and not vote?

[Spring Bass]

There was the Green Party.

I'm skeptical of this "if only there was a true leftist party" argument. Blair's (and Milliband's) "New Labour" didn't come out of thin air in the 1990s - it came about because Labour tried the "stick to your roots" thing before, and it only got them 18 consecutive years of Conservative majority rule.

[Inigima]

Fair point.

What distinguishes Labour from the Lib Dems at this point? That's not meant as a gotcha, I really don't have a clear understanding of their present policy differences.

[Talleyrand]

Well congratulations Hereward, at least there's one person in this thread who's happy.

Christ though, on the lead up everyone was going on about how no-one was taking a majority and it was all down to who the the Coalition would be. This one was quite a shocker. Both for Tories winning and SNP absolutely sweeping Scotland

[Chaldanya]

I'm probably being thick but I don't understand how the beeb are saying that Conservative have a majority of 12 when they got 331 seats which is 6 majority to my maths... What am I missing?

N

[Deedles]

I was listening to the today program when Balls went alright. I did however see the rumour last night (and mentioned it in previous thread), I half jokingly called Yvette for next Shadow Chancellor.

Going to be interesting to see the new cabinet.

[lessthanluke]

I'm probably being thick but I don't understand how the beeb are saying that Conservative have a majority of 12 when they got 331 seats which is 6 majority to my maths... What am I missing?

N

-1 for the speaker, minus however many Sinn Fein got etc

[scotcat]

On the one hand, the results have me extremely disappointed. How the Tories got in again just eludes me - why do people keep voting for these elitists?

On the other, well done SNP! Nobody saw that one coming! :D

Best of all, bye bye Farage. If there's one politician I dislike more than Cameron or Osborne it's Farage.

[The BlackBear]

I'm probably being thick but I don't understand how the beeb are saying that Conservative have a majority of 12 when they got 331 seats which is 6 majority to my maths... What am I missing?

N

Like Less Than Luke says, Sinn Fein abstain and don't take their seats.

[Inigima]

You may see a renewed attempt at privacy violations:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/05/08/new_government_new_security_powers/

[Chaldanya]

-1 for the speaker, minus however many Sinn Fein

325+1 for majority

-1 for speaker

- 4 for Sinn Fein

which gives 321 - so still only 10 majority

N

[The BlackBear]

Actually it's (650-4-1)/2

[FireAndBlood.]

What a fucking disaster.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

So I take it FPTP isn't going anywhere?

I'm just happy Farage is gone. :)

[FireAndBlood.]

So I take it FPTP isn't going anywhere?

I'm just happy Farage is gone. :)

Unfortunately.

FPTP is awful and should have been replaced years ago.

[Chaldanya]

Actually it's (650-4-1)/2

So that's 324 needed. So Conservatives have a majority of 7.

N

[ab aeterno]

Labour, IMO, need to get back to their roots a bit. I refuse to believe that the swing to UKIP is all because of racism; especially in the northeast, it has to be a lot to do with the way Blair/Brown threw the working class under the bus in their drive to appeal to the City and the South. Farage provided a workable scapegoat with his pontificating about the Immigrant Menace, and as UKIP has been the only party really trying to build in working class appeal without being totally patronising, its not that surprising theyve had the boost. Miliband was really not the guy to reverse the process.

I did think his resignation speech was quite sad though; Ive not been a fan of the guy but that was probably the best speech hes done.

If they're not winning a decent number of Scottish seats, Labour won't touch power without appealing to the South, also, this:

There was the Green Party.

I'm skeptical of this "if only there was a true leftist party" argument. Blair's (and Milliband's) "New Labour" didn't come out of thin air in the 1990s - it came about because Labour tried the "stick to your roots" thing before, and it only got them 18 consecutive years of Conservative majority rule.

If the Tories also reform the current boundaries (which favour Labour,) into a smaller parliament with boundaries that favour the Tories, this will be even more true. There'll almost certainly be no majority without carrying the South.

Right, yeah, I get the difference between mainland politics and elsewhere. The reason I bring it up is, do you have a clear option if you're a lefty in the UK?

If not, then is it really a surprise when the Tories win? If there's no defined left-wing party, does the left fragment? Does it stay home in greater numbers and not vote?

It mostly tends to fragment, usually over relatively minor issues. That whole sketch in Monty Python's Life of Brian, where John Cleese representing the People's Front of Judea, and attacking the Judean People's Front and the Popular front, was making fun of this phenomenon. The broad left usually captures around 50% of the popular vote.

Fair point.

What distinguishes Labour from the Lib Dems at this point? That's not meant as a gotcha, I really don't have a clear understanding of their present policy differences.

It tends to fluctuate. Historically, the Liberals were slightly more market based than Labour which has its roots as a Socialist party. During the 90s Labour swung towards the Centre under Blair, and the Lib Dems moved left. The under Clegg the Lib Dems moved back to the centre right economically.

As for social policy, the Lib Dems tend to be more socially liberal/permissive than Labour, but to be honest, there's not a huge amount in it, other than the Lib Dems being quite strongly in favour of civil liberties, moreso than Labour.

Unfortunately.

FPTP is awful and should have been replaced years ago.

Historically it has been a fairly good system at delivering what it is designed to deliver - a simple and easy to execute system to choose representatives for single member constituencies. If you have a two party system, it works pretty effectively. Add a third party and it will start to distort things. Add party(ies) that are concentrated in particular areas and it will cause chaos on a popular vote level. It's also quite effective at churning out majority governments from awkwardly low popular votes, as it has just demonstrated :lol:

[ljkeane]

Oh well I just had a look at the BBC map thingy and at least the Labour lead increased in my constituency and a couple of the local constituencies which voted Tory last time switched back to Labour (ETA: Heh, one by 417 votes and one by 93 votes). That's something I suppose.

[BigFatCoward]

the north east did our bit, where were the rest of you. i used to think alcohol cured all emotional and physical pain, somehow i think that theory will be disproved tonight.

[Maltaran]

Interesting questions, but not as important as "WERE YOU UP FOR BALLS?

Yes.

Because I went to bed at a sensible time and then got up early.

On the subject of proportionality, take a look at the result in Belfast South - there were so many candidates running that the MP was elected with less than a quarter of the vote.