Jessica Jones [AKA This Thread Has Spoilers]

[RumHam]

There's also the point Kilgrave makes that he didn't actually tell Jessica to kill Reva, he just said "take care of her" which could have meant a lot of things. The other victims seem to take what he says quite literally (See: "put a bullet in your head, Trish.") I thought they were gonna suggest she was becoming immune even before then and killed Reva at the slightest suggestion because she's got all that pent up anger and rage. 

[Ran]

Fly in the ointment -- just realized that surely Kilgrave's parents were stuck with him commanding them for months, right? And then seems to be able to command them without any difficulty when they're back in his reach. So maybe it's a combination of exposure plus the super-power thing meaning she has a heightened immune system (after all, she does heal faster than normal.)

 

Alternatively, the parents were able to get away because for a brief moment his powers weren't working on them, but didn't realize that that was why they got away... and after decades away for him, the immunity they had developed wore away.

[alguien]

I assumed that Jessica developed a natural immunity from prolonged and repeated exposure. Kilgrave seemed to get easily bored with previous "toys" and went through them rapidly, whereas with Jessica he became obsessive and commanded her over a period of months.

This was exactly my assumption as well. Whether due combination of her powers and the long exposure, or just long exposure itself, she began to develop an immunity and killing Reva was the catalyst that snapped the already fraying control. 

So it was a combination of exposure, wisdom save +2 after having been made into a murderer, and perhaps powers. 

I did notice that Luke Cage hesitated while fighting her and even told her to "do what she had to" at the end, which shows that he was already gaining a resistance (and this with Kilgrave's magnified powers) as well. 

I wonder if the vaccine wasn't at least somewhat effective, as it seemed like Kilgrave's father initially resisted his command. There was a look of joy on his face, but then he gave in. 

[alguien]

I've read several folks saying that it's too bad they had to kill Kilgrave off, even though it was thematically appropriate for the season. 

The thing is... they totally have an out to bring him back. The Purple Man's been killed before, but no one ever really dies in comics. The chemicals that gave him his powers also gave him a sort of lower-grade Wolverine-like healing factor, IIRC. 

So if they wanted to bring him back, it's totally possible. Granted, I don't think it's something they should do--at least not for a few seasons, or maybe a different show, perhaps in a Masters of Evil type group, only in incapacitated fashion a la the Jason Stryker from X-Men 2 or something. 

[Jon AS]

I thought that the plan was for Jessica to get the jump on Kilgrave, but it didn't quite work. Jessica's plans don't always work.

Yes, I gathered that was the plan as well. She was just still much too far away to effectively interfere by the time Trish revealed herself, which makes it look really weird. I think it's less an issue with the writing than the direction of the scene.

The thing is... they totally have an out to bring him back.

No. Bringing him back would be the only thing worse than keeping him alive in the first place.

He was a great villain, he served his purpose, he's done.

[AndrewJ]

People are saying they can't understand why she didn't kill him when she had the many chances. I'm saying it's perfectly understandable why, and it has nothing to do with the premise of it cutting the entire show short. 

Nope - I said I really enjoyed the show, but Jessica completely fucked up. (go back and check - that's exactly what I said). I never said it would have been a better show if she killed him in episode 5 and then spent the next 8 episodes playing Scrabble with Cage. I never said her decisions didn't make any sense.

But... she fucked up. (Or, to put it another way, she made a choice very early on that achieved nothing except to cause the death and suffering of a great many people, before ending up with the exact same result anyway.)

 

[protar]

I'm glad they killed Kilgrave off. As great a villain as he was, his existence in the MCU limits the kind of stories that can be told. There's a lot of things you can't do narratively if your villain can control people without resistance. It's interesting to have stories within those parameters but I think they've told all the stories that they could this season. I want a very different villain next season to switch things up. 

[Kalbear]

But... she fucked up. (Or, to put it another way, she made a choice very early on that achieved nothing except to cause the death and suffering of a great many people, before ending up with the exact same result anyway.)

Yes, absolutely. To be fair she didn't know she was the only immune person in ep 5, but if anything that made her decision not to kill him even more dangerous. 

I kind of like that, however. She does care for him in some horrible way. She does question whether or not the control he had over her was full or if there was some part of her that liked it and did things more than she needed to. She wants to get some closure. She also wants to be the hero; she doesn't want to kill people. And she does want justice for Hope; she can't bear the thought of someone innocent going to jail for life for a crime they could not stop. 

[briantw]

I've read several folks saying that it's too bad they had to kill Kilgrave off, even though it was thematically appropriate for the season. 

The thing is... they totally have an out to bring him back. The Purple Man's been killed before, but no one ever really dies in comics. The chemicals that gave him his powers also gave him a sort of lower-grade Wolverine-like healing factor, IIRC. 

So if they wanted to bring him back, it's totally possible. Granted, I don't think it's something they should do--at least not for a few seasons, or maybe a different show, perhaps in a Masters of Evil type group, only in incapacitated fashion a la the Jason Stryker from X-Men 2 or something. 

I wouldn't mind Kilgrave coming back...just not any time soon on Jessica Jones.  I think he's run his course in her life for now.

The natural downside to killing him off is that, the Marvel comics universe being persistent and all, he can't appear in other shows or movies.  Tennant did a great job with the role, and it's a shame we're unlikely to see him anywhere else.

[The BlackBear]

It's really the only way to conclude that arc. Kingpin lost because he was exposed as who he was, he can never go back to the shadows. So him having lost his empire and his love were enough for Daredevil. Kilgrave needed to pay for what he did, if he didn't the show would have felt empty in the end, the loose ends had to be tied up to a degree. Him alive, with that power is one hell of a loose end.

[protar]

It's really the only way to conclude that arc. Kingpin lost because he was exposed as who he was, he can never go back to the shadows. So him having lost his empire and his love were enough for Daredevil. Kilgrave needed to pay for what he did, if he didn't the show would have felt empty in the end, the loose ends had to be tied up to a degree. Him alive, with that power is one hell of a loose end.

I suppose they could have cured him of the virus so they could bring him back later if and when they wanted.

[The BlackBear]

I don't know, I feel the laws of TV are different. Characters that vile can't be left in prison.

[AndrewJ]

Oh... and some were lamenting that Trish was Jessie's BFF, rather than Carol Danvers.

Funnily enough, as someone who basically knows nothing about Danvers beyond seeing a few pictures online, I thought the actress playing Trish would have suited that role pretty well. Not so much when she was dressed up for her talk show, but what cemented it for me was in one of the last few episodes when she was wearing a bright blue shirt with a bright red jacket. It just screamed "Super Hero" to me (and Superman specifically). From what I've seen, those don't actually appear to be Captain Marvel's colours, as such (seems like it's just the red and maybe yellow?) but I understand the character is pretty much a Superman analog.

Even more specifically - the outfit gave off a very definite Clark Kent in "Smallville" vibe.

Anyway - it won't happen now that Marvel have used her in a different role. But it seemed like she would have been a good fit to me.

[briantw]

It's really the only way to conclude that arc. Kingpin lost because he was exposed as who he was, he can never go back to the shadows. So him having lost his empire and his love were enough for Daredevil. Kilgrave needed to pay for what he did, if he didn't the show would have felt empty in the end, the loose ends had to be tied up to a degree. Him alive, with that power is one hell of a loose end.

Kingpin also has no powers, so putting him in jail is significantly easier than a guy like Kilgrave, who is damn near impossible to keep locked up for an extended period of time.  One slip-up and he's free.  The Kingpin is also different in that he's not crazy, whereas the Purple Man is a sociopath with zero regard for the lives of others.  The Kingpin is ruthless, but he doesn't kill people just because like Kilgrave does.  Kilgrave will tell people to kill or seriously harm themselves for annoying him, and gives less than a damn about the countless lives he ruins.  The Kingpin isn't really like that, at least not until Daredevil pushes him to the breaking point near the end.

[alguien]

No. Bringing him back would be the only thing worse than keeping him alive in the first place.

He was a great villain, he served his purpose, he's done.

For this season and Jessica Jones, sure. Having her kill him was an appropriate ending. 

But it's comics; no one ever stays dead (see Agents of Shield). And let's not forget he started out as a Daredevil villain. In fact, Daredevil was the only one capable of resisting him in the comic at first, something about DD's powers giving him enough resistance in typical comic, hand-wavey fashion,. Looking it up, it also looks like Doctor Doom and Wilson Fisk have also resisted Kilgrave completely unaided. Both in fact forced Kilgrave to aid him in some plot. It would have been interesting to see D'Onfrio and Tennant share a scene. 

I could see him or his power coming back in some fashion, perhaps having the virus in his body weaponized/synthesized as some sort of plot line. One his recent comic storylines had all of his bastard children coming together to form like a Purple Clan, which was very creepy.

I don't think it'd be good for the Jessica Jones series, but could see it being used in Defenders or as a subplot/guest appearance for Agents of Shield. I gotta believe that HYDRA would be dying to get their hands on Kilgrave's body... 

[Martini Sigil]

 

So it was a combination of exposure, wisdom check, and perhaps powers. 

 

I think that the psychological trauma of committing murder may have helped also.... just a guess though 

[alguien]

I think that the psychological trauma of committing murder may have helped also.... just a guess though 

Yeah, totally agree. 

[Durckad]

So, what are the chances that the chemicals that blinded Murdoch and gave him his 'powers' were developed by IGH?

[Jon AS]

For this season and Jessica Jones, sure. Having her kill him was an appropriate ending. 

But it's comics; no one ever stays dead (see Agents of Shield).

And bringing him back would retroactively cheapen this series.

The resurrection plotline on SHIELD also turned out to be a major misstep. Not only was it nowhere near as interesting as the writers clearly thought it was, it's also one of the things that prevents the show from being tied into the movies more directly. A reappearance of Coulson would require a lengthy explanation, and time is precious in a two hour movie.

So, what are the chances that the chemicals that blinded Murdoch and gave him his 'powers' were developed by IGH?

I was thinking that, too. Maybe they gave up on their program to create superpowered people by having trucks loaded with their chemicals cause random accidents at some point and pursued a more direct approach, resulting in the experiments that gave Luke his abilities.

[red snow]

on episode 7. It's still decent TV but episode 3 seemed to be the peak so far. There is a lot of dumb stuff in the show eg legal things and the subway scene made me feel like NY subways should have better cctv and responses. Someone was left dangling over a line for a minute and nothing.

It also seems like they have taken inspiration from the writers of "arrow" with regards to keeping secrets for "drama" and then being deliberately misleading when they finally divulge it too late. Why couldn't Jessica just say "Kilgrave made me kill your wife" rather than "I killed your wife"? While I can understand a character feeling guilt over this and hiding it I feel it was sloppily handled.

Overall it feels like all the other comic tv shows in terms of being mindless fun but is pretending to be "the wire" or "breaking bad". It's nice that they are trying but I think it's more an attempt to fool us into thinking we're not watching MCU entertainment aimed for everyone. I'm cool with watching stuff for teenagers as long as it's entertaining - I don't need to justify it as "mature".

It does have the advantage of really strong actors though.

I'm hoping it finishes strong but I'd put this below Daredevil so far but still consider the netflix shows a success.