Is Gollum good or bad?

[Darth Richard II]

Yes, but the point remains that if he hadn't been there (because Bilbo, Frodo, or Sam decided to kill him), Middle-earth would have been doomed. The power of mercy saved the world.

I always thought the idea was that Sam was going to push him in if that hadn't happened. It has been a LONG time since I read LotR though.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Smeagol was a bad person with the possiblity for redemption that he did not choose to take.  The harder question, in my mind, is how much responsibility does the "good person" Samwise have for turning Smeagol back from his moment of redemption.  Had Sam not acted with suspicion and anger when he saw Smeagol touching Frodo it's possible Smeagol may have repented and been redeemed.

[HexMachina]

I always thought the idea was that Sam was going to push him in if that hadn't happened. It has been a LONG time since I read LotR though.

I think (and I don't own HoME and such, have only flicked through a few volumes in libraries so I could be wrong) that Tolkein had various ideas for how to destruction of the Ring would happen. I think in every version, Gollum, Sam and Frodo were there, but the outcome wasn't always the same. I believe in at least one version, Sam topples into the fire with Gollum. Someone more well versed in these things (I'm thinking RBPL) might be better able to elaborate on that though.

[Biter]

According to The Wrap, Peter Jackson and two co-writers have made a statement regarding this case;

http://www.thewrap.com/gollum-turkish-court-peter-jackson/

“If the images below are in fact the ones forming the basis of this Turkish lawsuit, we can state categorically: None of them feature the character known as Gollum. All of them are images of the character called Smeagol.”

“Smeagol is a joyful, sweet character. Smeagol does not lie, deceive, or attempt to manipulate others. He is not evil, conniving, or malicious — these personality traits belong to Gollum, who should never be confused with Smeagol,” the statement from Jackson, Walsh and Boyens continued.

http://www.avclub.com/article/peter-jackson-turkish-court-smeagol-and-gollum-are-229231

Indeed, looking at the photos—which show the character smiling, and large-eyed, both of which were used in Jackson’s films to distinguish Smeagol from the darker Gollum persona—it’s pretty clear he’s right. (Scholars of the books will also note that Tolkien himself supported some sort of split between the two characters, denoting changes in his speech patterns and manner when his less-evil self was in control.) We can only hope that some enterprising Turkish attorney will read Jackson’s statement and present it in court, because a situation in which a man could be jailed for two years of his life for posting a picture online could probably use a little lightening up. 

[HexMachina]

Yeah well Peter Jackson mae the Hobbit, and gave us the weird film Denethor so forgive me for disregarding anyrhing he says about characterisation

[Buckwheat]

Yeah well Peter Jackson mae the Hobbit, and gave us the weird film Denethor so forgive me for disregarding anyrhing he says about characterisation

Well everything about this court process is just ridiculous enough that involving him is just the thing it needs, though.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Peter Jackson is among the last people to whom I would inquire as to the interepretation of the motivations of Characters from LotR.

[Ser Drizztos]

Peter Jackson is among the last people to whom I would inquire as to the interepretation of the motivations of Characters from LotR.

Well, that decision now rests with the Turkish court.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Oh, come on... It's not like Jackson is Benioff or the other guy.

As for the question, Smeagol seemed to have always the potential to be Gollum, but, if the Ring hadn't found him, he would have likely become simply a bitter obnoxious man instead. So, we cannot say that Smeagol was a bad person because finding the Ring was a hell of an specific event. Gollum is simply a tragic creature without much free will.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

JonCon,

Denethor's flaming 5k.  FilmDenethor.  Both courtesy of Peter Jackson.

[Darth Richard II]

 There are no Hobbit films. 

[john]

The case is about the character from the film so Jackson is obviously qualified to comment.  And if he says Smeagol is a sweetheart then that's it.  Case closed.

[The Marquis de Leech]

The case is about the character from the film so Jackson is obviously qualified to comment.  And if he says Smeagol is a sweetheart then that's it.  Case closed.

Death of the Author Film-maker. And Ser Scott is right about Film!Denethor. 

We don't see much of Film!Smeagol before he encounters the Ring: he likes fishing, and that's pretty much it. To invoke the book, Tolkien notes that Smeagol was interested in roots and beginnings (that's OK), but also that his head and eyes were downwards - which screams a warning sign to me (it's no accident that Tolkien's Elves loved the stars). Also, note that the Ring doesn't turn you into an entirely different person - it warps your pre-existing personality to achieve its ends. The Ring at first accentuated the nastier aspects of Smeagol's personality, until he was exiled.

[The Marquis de Leech]

Gollum is simply a tragic creature without much free will.

Nonsense. Everyone has free-will in Tolkien (with the Orcs being the only grey area).

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

RBPL,

I'm listening to an interesting lecture on Tolkien:

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/15750149-tolkien-and-the-west

The Professor does mention that he believes Tolkien believed Orcs had free will and could have been redeemed.

[john]

Death of the Author Film-maker. And Ser Scott is right about Film!Denethor. 

But the Turkish court clearly doesn't support Death of the Author or they wouldn't be debating the issue in the first place.  And yes, FilmDenethor is horrible.

[SeanF]

But the Turkish court clearly doesn't support Death of the Author or they wouldn't be debating the issue in the first place.  And yes, FilmDenethor is horrible.

I've never met a single lover of the Book who has a clue what Peter Jackson was doing with Denethor in the Film.

Book Denethor is a highly competent ruler and commander, if overly proud, who only gives way to despair at the last moment.

Film Denethor is a mean, selfish, cowardly, treacherous, stupid, gluttonous arsehole.   He has not a single redeeming quality.  His subjects would surely have disposed of him years ago.

[Zorral]

It began with execution, then thwarting what was known about the Ring.

From there did Smeagol take possession by murder for the sake of theft.

Many murders thereafter, which still can't be swept away by his torture by the minions of the One Ring.  It was his choice.

Frodo never did these things, even as tempted as he was. Until the very end when the power of the Ring itself overtook Frodo at the very place of its only destruction.

Tolkien told us this clearly.  No problem!

Especially as we see how this all played out after -- including that brilliant almost finale, The Scouring of the Shire -- and the real finale, Frodo going to the Grey Havens, while Sam was able to go back home to his family and community.

 Bearing pure evil as long as Frodo did, does leave one out of community. But Frodo chose this cup for the sake of saving the world, while Golum grabbed it to have power over others, and committed murder for it, first because of greed.  Greed, to achieve its ends, ultimately depends upon having power over others.

 

[Howdyphillip]

Who's Gollum?

Several answers here...

1. He could be the love child of Richard Lewis and Yoda

2. He is more interested in jewelry than either Zsa Zsa or Eva Gabor ever were.

3. a guy who really loves Sushi

 

but the best answer is...

 

4. Andy Serkis

 

[ants]

He committed murder to get the ring. He'd never even touched it when he did. He was quite clearly evil, even if there was a chance of redemption.