Star Wars Episode VII THE SPOILERS AWAKEN

[Lord Friendzone]

I loved it, other than Kayo Ren and his pathetic motive for wanting his dad dead. Come on kid, you were a troubled youth and your parents sent you to the only man who could help you figure things out, that is not a good reason for you to whack your dad, regardless of what Snoke tells you.

My buddy gave it 8.5/10, I agree with him.

So far I read positive things about Kylo and basically all the other characters. Especially Han and Ford give apparently amazing performance. His reasoning is off like you said. Interesting to hear that.

[Red Tiger]

So far I read positive things about Kylo and basically all the other characters. Especially Han and Ford give apparently amazing performance. His reasoning is off like you said. Interesting to hear that.

Acting for two?

[Tywin et al.]

Acting for two?

He's making up for IJatKofCS.

[Lord Friendzone]

Acting for two?

 It's damn Harrison Fod...he can, if he wants. Joking aside, Han/Ford my bad. 

[AndrewJ]

I was okay with how Han's death played out. Ren was basically fully embracing the dark side and turning his back on the light. This was the moment that defined it. (But yes, Ford really brought it in this movie. I was a bit hesitant when hearing the original cast would be featured in the movie. Especially after the last Indy movie - I frankly thought he was getting past it now. But he reminded me just how good an actor he can be and has me lamenting the fact that we won't get to see him and Luke together again. Luke really looked the part at the end too).

As to the movie as a whole - it was great I really enjoyed it. I'd probably slot it a little behind New Hope and Empire, but ahead of Jedi. And, of course, light years ahead of the prequels. Good writing, good acting and a likable cast of characters. I can't wait to see how the story plays out over the next half-decade or so.

Oh... and we finally have a Star Wars movie again that's aimed at adults (while still being enjoyable for kids). Totally devoid of all the kiddy-centric stuff like Ewoks and Gungans. This is the Star Wars movie you are looking for.

 

 

 

[Jabronius Maximus]

Yeah I didn't really buy Kylo's motivations there. He wanted his muggle father dead? This is where uncle  Luke has to step in and give him a good old ass whooping (or sister/cousin/whatever Rey). 

Also once the mask came off I felt Driver wasn't all that good of an on screen presence. Ford and Boyega imo were the highlights acting wise, and Rey was serviceable. 

[Ran]

I think Driver actually worked well with the mask off, because there's something about him that makes the character seem... I don't know, it sold the uncertainty and the fact that -- who was it, J.J. Abrams or someone, who said the character is basically trying to play up what he thinks he ought to be doing but doesn't really know what's what? It sold to me.

I think that there has to be more to the story of his separation from his parents, his turning to the Dark Side, and so on than we've been told so far. I'm guessing Episode VIII is going to have the bulk of background revelation to perhaps give more context. Certainly, if it's just -- oh, they sent me to my UNCLE and thus my FAMILY has ABANDONED me -- it's going to feel very, very weird.

My thinking is that Luke will feel that he screwed something up big time when trying to train him, and that's part of the reason for his search for the First Temple (BTW, am I wrong or was the first Jedi temple a thing in the EU? I pretty much didn't read past Zahn's initial trilogy, so don't know more than hearsay)

[The Anti-Targ]

By crikey I was not expecting this movie to get a 94% on Rotten Tomatoes. I am sceptical that it will deserve that number myself so I am not letting the overwhelmingly positive reviews raise my expectations. Of the comments from audience I've heard on radio no one seems to feel hugely let down by the movie, but some people have been equivocal in their praise.

I'm watching the movie next week, so I'm not reading any posts in this thread.

[Ran]

Bear in mind that RT just rates strength of consensus. The consensus is positive and very few people can find major fault, but it doesn't necessarily mean it is a flawless picture.

I think it's reasonable though that most everyone will think it's a good movie, if not necessarily a great one.

[Jabronius Maximus]

I think Driver actually worked well with the mask off, because there's something about him that makes the character seem... I don't know, it sold the uncertainty and the fact that -- who was it, J.J. Abrams or someone, who said the characters is basically trying to play up what he thinks he ought to be doing but doesn't really know what's what? It sold to me.

Do you have a link to that by any chance? I'll be watching the movie again next week, so it'd be nice to look at Kylo/Ben differently. 

I wonder if he's even more torn up now after what he did. 

Edit: regarding the RT numbers, yeah it's just a positive/negative metre. Imdb won't even be a reliable measure, given that it's already like 9.3 and I suspect many of those user reviewers haven't even seen it. Metacritic might be the best in this case, and even it isn't all that great. 

[Ran]

I'm trying to remember where I saw it. I think it was something to do with his lightsaber that led Abrams to make a remark about Kylo being, basically, unfinished and basically a wannabe-Vader. I may be reading more into it than was intended, but his Vader adulation mixed with his obvious anxiety does make it seem that he's parroting the role. Once the mask comes off, it felt that's that was what Driver's performance was driving (heh) at.

[AndrewJ]

Ford and Boyega imo were the highlights acting wise, and Rey was serviceable. 

Pretty much agreed. But I'd add that Oscar Isaac's performance in a somewhat smaller role was pretty much as expected - ie outstanding. He's someone I'd definitely like to see have an expanded role in the upcoming movies (which is possible - I can see him stepping into the void left by Han)

And re RT - yeah, I wouldn't score the movie 9.4/10 by any means (somewhere in the 8.5-9.0 range). But 94% of people scoring the movie higher than 5/10? Absolutely! There's no way in hell this movie warrants a score of 5 or lower. 

[Veltigar]

I already posted in the non-spoilerthread, so firstly just a short recap of what I said there: The film is a solid 3,5/5. Definitely worth seeing in the theatre. The effects were outstanding (the 3-D excepted, it still felt like a waste of money to me) and the film is totally hilarious. The old guard is great and most of the new actors worked very nicely as well. It was also nice to see how much the audience loved it, people were clapping at the beginning and end, which I usually can't stand, but here the entire room participated and it had a bit of a magical feel to it.

The major downside is in my opinion the story. I wouldn't say it's totally derivative, but it gets uncomfortably  close. It certainly suffers from the typical sequel disease of "bigger/more = better". When it came to the effects and the humour, they were right, but there were a lot of pesky little things that bothered me about the story.

The deathstar on steroids was a nice location and the lightsaber duel was definitely the second best in the series, but did we really need yet another stardestroying weapon like it? That was kind of dumb imo. The opening scene also didn't jive for me. It felt a bit shoehorned in, like some focusgroup told them that it wasn't clear that Kylo Ren/Ben Solo was Han's son. The proposal for an opening scene I read many months ago in one of the previous SW threads (start the film with Kylo Ren robbing Vader's grave or with Luke's severed hand with the lightsaber  getting found somewhere drifting into space) was much better.

Another flaw was Captain Phasma, she has so far been wasted. I thought she was supposed to take Bobba Fet's place as Forceless badass, but no dice. It felt like a waste of a cool costume to be honest. The way Luke's lightsaber was brought back into the story was also kind of retarded imo. There is probably a long and boring explanation about that forthcoming in the next film but still, it bugged me here. 

Finn and Rey were also way to competent from the get go. The decision to let Finn be a rookie who deserts after his first fight was an odd one. It robbs his escape partly of his power and it makes his kills later on in the film kind of unearned. Rey's final fight with the lightsaber was cool to look at, but I feel that even wounded Kylo Ren should have given her more of a fight. Like, the force grants her certain powers, but it's not as if a Jedi can become a master lightsaber wielder in such a small timeframe.

I was also disappointed in Adam Driver. I confess I don't watch Girls, but I heard he was a pretty good actor, but he had the presence of a wet blanket without the mask. It was a mistake to leave it off. Boyega and Ridley were running circles round him in that regard. 

 

[Ran]

While it was his first battle, Finn's been trained all his life, more or less, to be a stormtrooper. I did, however, feel that his ambivalence to violence should also have been an ambivalence to violence against his fellow stormtroopers. It switched a bit too quickly between the horror of violence to the thrill of it, and that's certainly a place where the story felt a bit rushed and unexamined.

As to Rey, I suspect there's more to it than just that she's a strong Force-sensitive -- I suspect we'll find she had training as a child which was blocked from her memory somehow, and I think Kylo Ren maybe wasn't entirely sure he wanted to beat her. But again, referring to unexamined stuff, the ferocity with which Rey ends up beating him down and slashing his face... that felt like a hint of the Dark Side pulling at her there, didn't it? And yet they don't linger at it.

This may of course be the whole idea, that these rushed/unexamined elements are seeds to be explored later.

[Lord Friendzone]

 

I was also disappointed in Adam Driver. I confess I don't watch Girls, but I heard he was a pretty good actor, but he had the presence of a wet blanket without the mask. It was a mistake to leave it off. Boyega and Ridley were running circles round him in that regard. 

That's something I always said about Kit Harington on GOT for the first four seasons. My friend who saw the movie just described Kylo Ren as a bigger version of Jon Snow, or as he puts it "emo Jon Snow on steriods", with long curly hair...and funny Vader-esque mask. He is after all a Vader fanatic, wannabe. Some people compare him to Jaicen Solo from EU.

[AndrewJ]

Agreed re Captain Phasma. It actually only just occurred to me a little while ago and I was coming in to post about that. She had a great introduction, but it didn't really amount to anything. Hopefully we'll get more from her in the next movies. (Did she survive? I think so - but I'm not sure)

One little touch that I did like was that the Storm Troopers seemed like real actual people and not just automatons. And I'm not just referring to FN-1287 here (I think I got his designation right?). Little things - like the troopers turning around and walking the other way when Ren chucked his tanty. Or the reaction of the trooper initially when Rey tried to force-persuade him. They acted like actual, real, breathing people.

[Lord Varys]

Well, I went into that pretty much completely unspoiled besides very early stuff from 2013 or early 2014, and I'm very underwhelmed.

[But then, I've read and own pretty much the entire EU literature and now some corporation is trying to sell me some insecure twentysomething as Jacen Solo - who had a crappy story in the books, but then, it was better than whatever they came up with in that movie. A Vader wannabee? Honestly? 'Listen to my evil (imagined) breathing and watch my evil mask and despair?!']

The character arcs are better than any movie by George Lucas, of course, but then the directing sucks. I cannot see a Star-Wars-movie without planet long shots and strictly musical celebration endings as a Star Wars movie. Not to mention that Star Wars planets don't look like real world planets with various climate zones and stuff...

And whatever background world-building or storytelling they do is either a ripoff of ANH (the complete movie is, in fact, nothing but a ANH ripoff flavored with a little bit of family reunion and betrayal stuff - which is, of course, a ripoff of TESB). Does anybody understand why there has to be a Republic and a Resistance in that movie? And did the Republic have all its military and ships on those two planets they destroyed?

But the Evil Hologram really did it for me. Yes, perhaps he is an Evil Yoda and not Andy Serkis trying to cosplay Ian McDiarmid (the fact that the hologram had to be this over-sized could be a good hint that this guy is not, in fact, very tall...) but why the hell did this movie have to have Sith who refuse to call themselves Sith?

And why the hell is there no Empire but this 'First Order' crap (I constantly waited that something mentioned the 'Second and Third Order' or perhaps jump right through to the 'Seventh or Twelfth Order') when those First Order toadies are, for all intents and purposes, exactly the Empire?!

But I have to say I really, really liked seeing Carrie and Harrison back again, and, again, the character arcs seem to be pretty good after a first glance. Most motivations and actions in the movie feel genuine and understandable. But unfortunately this does not extend to the world they are stumbling through.

I never thought I would say that but this whole thing sucks because it is less complex like the PT. George proved that Star Wars works if there is a crappy over-the-top complex story trimmed down so that five-year-olds could understand it, but I don't think it is anything special if the only really interesting element are the characters.

Rey will turn out to be either Luke's daughter - pretty big hint with her arrival turning R2 on again (magically, I guess, after Luke's absence 'magically' switched him off) - or it will turn out that Leia and Han did not only have a son (although one assumes that this would have been mentioned in the movie) making the Rey-Ben antagonism more interesting.

I really like her, though, and the decision to make the main hero a woman as well as the fact that this seems to be the first SW movie where there is actually more than one woman showing up.

Oh, and wouldn't it have been neat if for once there would have been a surprise and the evil guy had for once listened to reason/emotion and rejoined the good guys without doing something stupid? I mean, that would have been a surprise, and he could still return to the bad guys later in the trilogy, right? But then, I've to keep in mind that the guy who had nothing better to do with Khan Noonien Singh in a different time line than to make him exactly the same guy he was in the last movie he showed up (in addition to that stupid idea to have him hide his sleeping comrades in weapons of mass destruction), so we should not expect anything imaginative.

I guess I'll watch it again once or twice and then I'll be done with that thing.

[dooog]

It was alright. Nothing bad about the movie but nothing great either. Unfortunately it lacked the Star Wars "magic". Definitely felt like JJ / Disney were playing it safe and the story was basically a mishmash of the original three films.

Positives for me were Harrison Ford back on form, the special effects, Kylo Ren, Chewie (of course) and Daisy Ridley

Negatives: Carrie Fisher looked like death warmed up, no acting chops and her character contributed nothing other than to fill in the blanks of what happened with Han after ROTJ. Captain Phasma was completely useless. Gleeson's character was awful, he played it like a pantomime villain. Finn's character was underwhelming and his jokes fell flat. That moment with the light sabre didn't make any sense to me, perhaps some fanboy can explain the force "logic" behind it. Also, the major character death was telegraphed so it didn't pack the emotional punch it should have.

 

Overall the movie left me feeling meh. Which I suppose is an improvement considering the previous 3 left me feeling irritated.

 

[The King in Black]

Okay.....

I really don't know what to say, except perhaps that it was okay. I mean entertaining , sure, and wayyyy more fun that PT, but... I never expected  a good story, but was a serviceable plot too much to ask for ? I know a lot of loose ends will be tied up in Ep. VIII and they are deliberately being vague, but I couldn't help but feel there was something incomplete about this movie. Rey works only because Daisy Ridley infuses her with both resolve and charm. Same for Finn ; they really wasted an opportunity there, by the way, by not covering the trauma and horrors of a former stormtrooper, instead turning him into the quintessential sidekick. Dameron too, for the matter of fact. Issacs and Gleeson better have asked for a really fat paycheck. And so would Cristie, as a matter of fact. Phasma was a total dud. Maz Katana doesn't leave much of an impression, neither does Snoke. Now I'm definitely sure this is because this part was supposed to be just a meet and greet , and these characters and the plot will pick up in Ep.8t this was all too much vagueness for me. Like a lot of stuff was just "Find out in Ep.8 !" What happened with Kylo ? Find out in Ep.8 ? How does Rey or anybody for that matter not wonder how she s basically Jedi master level when not too long ago she thought all of this was just stories ? Find out in Ep.8 ! Why are these Resistance and First Order guys making the same mistakes the Rebels and Empire made ? Find out in Ep.8 !

 

Nonetheless, atleast this installment was enjoyable. Visually it was quite good, the actors all do a fine job with whatever material thy are given, and I'm sure Ep.8 is going to be awesome !

3/5.

[The BlackBear]

I loved it. It had a lot of call backs, but that was no bad thing. BB-8 was adorable, it was funnier than I was expecting, but this for me didn't detract from the important moments. The original characters were not the focus, which was good, Ford got some good stuff, his death paved the a for a Dark Side with teeth. Biggest weakness for me was the score.

I was a little worried Rey seemed to defeat Ren too easily, but he had been shot, and hasn't completed his training. If she has been somehow mind wiped that would make it more believable. But generally I liked Ren, I'm OK with the young face, it gets the idea of an uncertain vulnerable person hiding behind his mask. He did seem damn powerful with the force so him back at full strength with more training should be something quite incredible to behold.

Rey was good, I'm glad she was the Force sensitve, I put my shout in as Luke's daughter (I suspect the common theory.) We didn't get too much Poe, but he was great, as was Finn. They had a really good friendship brewing.

Phasma didn't do much, this was a disappointment. Snoke was more prominent here than I expected but that's fine, builds up the overarching villain better than aNH did.

My big disappointment was the score, it just never grabbed me.