Micro aggression and African American names

[Fragile Bird]

The quote from Evan sounds like something someone had said to the woman, my problem is with the idea it happened in front of what seems to be some kind of team leader meeting, right in front of their supervisor.  If the story is true, then Evan has got to be some kind of protected golden boy, to be able to make such a racist comment without any apparent consequences to him.  To me the comment is so inflammatory it could be grounds for a discrimination suit against the company, potentially a very expensive matter.

But let's say it's true.  This racist company does nothing against Evan, the victim files no complaint, not even to HR, when she has a roomful of witnesses to back her up, and then for six months proceeds to mock Evan by never using his correct name, in e-mails and in meetings.  So the supervisor was so racist they did nothing about Evan's comments but then gives her free rein to do that for months?  Doesn't seem likely.  Comments like his are usually made in private if said seriously or "as a joke" (in bad taste) in public, but not in front of a supervisor.

i haven't looked at US discrimination cases in ages, maybe some of the Board's US lawyers are familiar with some similar fact situations?

[Eyelesbarrow]

Apparently my name is a male name in Germany, but mine has a different pronunciation. People mispronounce it all the time and I correct them - for non-Germans (Americans, UK), they get it - it's a common female name in the Anglo-Saxon world. But my German colleagues usually have to make it a conscious effort to  say it properly, which I appreciate. It also does not help that the boss and I share the same name. 

[Inigima]

Ok, I see.  I was accused, btw, of supporting this idiot in the link because I said all kinds of people get their names misspelled and mispronounced.  But that article was not linked in the thread I was responding to, what was linked was some woman's tweet, as I said above, suggesting all black people pretend they don't know how to pronounce the names of white people.  When I said that mispronouncing peoples' names was ignorant, I was told here goes white privilege gettin' all defensive.

And I agree with you, JonSnow, about the story being untrue.  I spent more than 15 years working as a lawyer in a couple of large US companies (in Canada) and if at a meeting of managers with their supervisor someone said the things 'Evan' was supposed to have said his ass would have  been in front of HR so fast it would make your head spin.  And for her to spend 6 months deliberately calling him by wrong names with the full support of everyone in the office sounds extremely unlikely as well.  After the first couple of times her supervisor would have (or should have) had her in the office to ask what the hell was going on.  The story sounds like someone's revenge fantasy.

However, I don't doubt that asshats do in fact deliberately mispronounce the name of people or say that they can't be bothered because the name is too hard.  It's practically an urban myth, one that I think is absolutely true, that many a foreigner with a strange name has been given a nickname because their real name was too hard to say.

 But I started this thread because I wondered if boarders with Arabic or African names are finding this kind of stuff happens to them.  Like solo and Arch-MaesterPhilip I have a last name that has always been mangled, even with me anglicising it to make it easier for folks.  But rarely do people do it on purpose, they usually try hard to get it correct. 

yes, it does. A Facebook friend (from this board, even, originally) said it's happened to her many times.

i don't much care whether this particular story (the linked one) is true. I think that opting not to believe someone who says something bad happened to her is something that you wouldn't do in another context and I don't think you should do it here, but it's not important for the point being made. This does appear to be A Thing That Happens. Without going into too much detail, I've seen something similar firsthand before -- not intentionally malicious at the time, but what I would term a microaggression.

[Deedles]

I think datepalm hit the right reason. If you mispronounce an Anglo name, it's regarded as your problem, while mispronouncing a neoname or ethic name is regarded as fair bait. I've totally mispronounced (and continue to) Fragile Birds name, but I make an honest effort, as I do with all names.

 

Having been brought up with a name mangled in a popular soap opera here, I can sympathise. I can see how it could and can be racist, but it's usually lazy.

 

I come from the land of Aoife's, Niamh's, Siobhan's and Caoillfhionn's though so amn't in a position to complain.

[polishgenius]

I basically have two names- the proper Polish one for Polish people and an Anglicised version for everyone else. That's not an aggression thing, though. Most non-Slavs simply can't say several Polish consonants, 'sz' included.

The English version does also occasionally get changed to Lucas, mind, which for some reason I put up with for one year at uni but will otherwise correct.

 

 

On the topic at hand: I think if someone's repeatedly getting a name 'built', if you will, in English, even if it's not a traditional Anglo-Saxon one, wrong then there's probably something going there, whether it's social laziness or deliberate racism. It's one thing mispronouncing a name if it comes from a whole different phonetic library, but even if it's new to you, once you've heard it once or twice you should be getting names from your own language right.

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

That woman in Ini's link, to the extent that her story is true, is horrible workplace bully. After being confronted with objectionable race-based behavior by a co-worker, instead of appropriately reporting it up to the chain to be addressed, she organizes a six-month campaign of harassment by her co-workers of the exact same behavior that she supposedly finds objectionable. 

That this woman is being sympathized with highlights the problems of identity politics. 

[polishgenius]

That woman in Ini's link, to the extent that her story is true, is horrible workplace bully. After being confronted with objectionable race-based behavior by a co-worker, instead of appropriately reporting it up to the chain to be addressed, she organizes a six-month campaign of harassment by her co-workers of the exact same behavior that she supposedly finds objectionable. 

That this woman is being sympathized with highlights the problems of identity politics. 

I think continuing at the end once he came to apologise was a step too far and not at all helpful. But before that, I think you'd have to be quite naive to think her going up the chain with it would have been a better solution than what she did. Chances are good that he'd learn nothing, and she'd have her card marked as a snitch and ass-licker.

[zelticgar]

I think continuing at the end once he came to apologise was a step too far and not at all helpful. But before that, I think you'd have to be quite naive to think her going up the chain with it would have been a better solution than what she did. Chances are good that he'd learn nothing, and she'd have her card marked as a snitch and ass-licker.

It depends on the company but in the vast majority of cases when situations like the one described in the link happen they are taken very seriously. If the company has any semblance of n HR department they would open an employee relations case, interview everyone involved, notify relevant managers and HR management. Once that is complete a decision would be made on a resolution and everyone would be monitored pretty closely.

Based on that link the story is either total BS or the company is a mom and pop shop with no semblance of an HR department.

PS for Deedles - how do you pronounce Caoillfhionn?

 

 

 

[sologdin]

Ini's link is just someone verbalizing very bluntly the logic behind the act, I think. That guy just took the further step of actually adding, "I'm so disdainful of you and your culture that I can not bother to pronounce your name and expect to get away with it," 

it occurs to me that the value of the privilege here accounts both for his expecting to get away with it and for my own immunity to the phenomenon.

That this woman is being sympathized with highlights the problems of identity politics. 

yeah, self-help revenge rather than public redress of grievance.  gross.

[Deedles]

Quote function is malfunctioning for me. Basically, Keel-in. It's a little rounder, almost as if it's kweel-in but not quite. 

[zelticgar]

Quote function is malfunctioning for me. Basically, Keel-in. It's a little rounder, almost as if it's kweel-in but not quite. 

Got it. Don't think anyone with that name should be too ruffled if people struggle with pronounciation

[Arch-MaesterPhilip]

My secret for pronouncing names correctly:

 

Grow up in the SF Bay Area.

 

Live in East Asia for four years.

 

Be a hockey and futbol fan.

 

Don't even try with Gaelic names, just memorize that shit.

I would throw baseball in as well but I would say you're right on the money here.  

[Lordsteve666]

My surname only has 5 letters and has to be one of the easiest to pronounce I know of but because it's a bit unusual people still can't get it right. It's something I've grown up with as has my brother, parents and grandparents and now my wife too must get used to this. 

But I remember at school a teacher who I actually told how to pronounce it correctly and he still didn't do it right, even when reading names aloud for class register. It pissed me off because at the end of the day your name identifies who you are, it very personal to you and when some asshole intentionally says it wrong or can't be bothered I think you should be annoyed. 

That link it practically out and out racism though and I wouldn't let that pass if it happened with any of my staff. I've warned plenty of them before about racism before. 

Min my line of work though I meet people from all over the world as they pass through on their travels so seeing odd names is just the norm. I do my best and everyone else does too. I make a effort to get to learn the general naming patterns of the more common nationalities and cultures we deal with (Polish, German, Gaelic, Scandinavian etc.) but even I will get stumped with some Chinese or other Asian names. 

I think it's common decency to try your best and if you get stuck ask the person. Only a real difficult person would take offence if they had a name that was unusual the the area and people couldn't work it out. 

[Melphis Amekia]

I have a Slavic surname which could be pronounced decently enough I guess by everyone and a weird kinda yes kinda not Slavic name which usually takes a few tries for everyone to get right. Honestly, I'd rather everyone call me Corwin if they can't pronounce my name, not because I'd be offended(I'd rather help that person to say my name as best they can) but because I like Corwin as an alias.

Also, pronouncing names(and other stuff) right is a simple, common courtesy, and going so far as to intentionally screw it up for any reason(which is usually bad) is just plan racist.

[Fragile Bird]

yes, it does. A Facebook friend (from this board, even, originally) said it's happened to her many times.

i don't much care whether this particular story (the linked one) is true. I think that opting not to believe someone who says something bad happened to her is something that you wouldn't do in another context and I don't think you should do it here, but it's not important for the point being made. This does appear to be A Thing That Happens. Without going into too much detail, I've seen something similar firsthand before -- not intentionally malicious at the time, but what I would term a microaggression.

As usual you're right. 

[Stinkhole]

I get the sense that she is on semi-friendly terms with the coworker and/or the guy is known for being a hapless loser.

Otherwise, she would have complained to the higher-ups instead of having fun with him.

Every workplace has a lovable doofus like Evan.

[HairBearHero]

Everybody involved in that Evan story sounds like an utter arsehole.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

My mother's maiden name is "Carroll".  I found out the Gaelic spelling of the same name is "Cearbhaille".  Same pronucuation.  I think that's kind of cool.  :)

[HairBearHero]

I had a colleague who I'd met several times socially and it took at least 5 emails and a phone call before I connected "Nieve", the Irish woman I'd spoken to at the pub, with the "Niamh" who emailed me querying some report definitions. 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

To Gaelic/Welsh/Cornish speakers.  Why the, to English speakers, unusual spellings?