The Walking Dead Season 6: "Who's Neegan?" (no comics spoilers)

[Kindly Old Man]

34 minutes ago, Swordfish said:

I've seen some people do the math on this, here's an example:

http://www.centives.net/S/2012/how-long-would-food-fuel-and-ammo-last-in-the-zombie-apocalypse/

We can assume it's been a few years now, so I think the maount of stuff they ar finding is actually a bit high at this point, particularly given all the stupid auto fire.

Additionally, when it comes to gas, it goes bad. Some years out from the end of the refining process, and finding gas would do you no good, because it would be unusable.

I think the estimated survival rate in TWD is around 0.1% so they should still have years and years of supplies. Also fuel doesn't go bad in this universe like it does in real life because it would all already be useless.

[briantw]

47 minutes ago, Swordfish said:

I've seen some people do the math on this, here's an example:

http://www.centives.net/S/2012/how-long-would-food-fuel-and-ammo-last-in-the-zombie-apocalypse/

We can assume it's been a few years now, so I think the maount of stuff they ar finding is actually a bit high at this point, particularly given all the stupid auto fire.

Additionally, when it comes to gas, it goes bad. Some years out from the end of the refining process, and finding gas would do you no good, because it would be unusable.

Fuel I get there not being a lot of.  Really, it should all have gone bad already.  Horses seem like they'd be useful in that type of environment, although I guess you'd have to catch some wild ones now because all the domesticated ones have likely died off.

Food I think there should be a ton of just lying around everywhere because there aren't even remotely enough people alive to have eaten it all.  The average Wal-Mart could sustain a population of fifty for years more than likely just on canned goods alone.  And as someone else mentioned, the forests should be overrun with deer by now since no one is hunting them.

With ammo, you'd think certain types would be more prevalent.  Semi-auto, for example, should be plentiful.  I could see higher caliber rounds being more scarce simply because people are very prone to wasting ammo on the show, but you'd think there would be more pistol ammo to be had.

[Swordfish]

4 minutes ago, briantw said:

Food I think there should be a ton of just lying around everywhere because there aren't even remotely enough people alive to have eaten it all.  The average Wal-Mart could sustain a population of fifty for years more than likely just on canned goods alone.  And as someone else mentioned, the forests should be overrun with deer by now since no one is hunting them.

 

Did you even read the link?  i think your'e either under estimating how much people eat, or vastly over estimating how much stuff a walmart holds.  but the math is in the link. 

 

Quote

With ammo, you'd think certain types would be more prevalent.  Semi-auto, for example, should be plentiful.  I could see higher caliber rounds being more scarce simply because people are very prone to wasting ammo on the show, but you'd think there would be more pistol ammo to be had.

Again, this is directly addressed in the link.  

[Castel]

All of this also ignores the non-zero cost of finding and then transporting food I mentioned earlier.

 

The group has been very nomadic and has like..a dozen highly skilled fighters at god knows wherever the fuck. They're not living inside a warehouse. 

 

 

[dbunting]

One of the great things about this show is that it allows each of us to think about and imagine what we would do. We can try to add our logic to the world they are in and think if we would live.

I guess they have never gone to a large store with concrete walls and steel doors because if they did it would kind of slow the story down because it would be safer. Much like the prison did for a season. A prison is an ideal place to live in this world, secure bedrooms (cells) in case someone dies in their sleep, fences everywhere, solid walls and watch towers.

[Leofric]

5 minutes ago, dbunting said:

One of the great things about this show is that it allows each of us to think about and imagine what we would do. We can try to add our logic to the world they are in and think if we would live.

I guess they have never gone to a large store with concrete walls and steel doors because if they did it would kind of slow the story down because it would be safer. Much like the prison did for a season. A prison is an ideal place to live in this world, secure bedrooms (cells) in case someone dies in their sleep, fences everywhere, solid walls and watch towers.

A big box store though would be a major prize and every band of survivors would make a bee line for it to load up on supplies.  So as civilization broke down it would become a major war zone as people fought for it.  So unless a large group took charge of it early and held on to it it would most likely be gutted.    Moving further up the chain to a food warehouse may be better because fewer people would know where one was unless they were locals or had worked there. 

A prison is definitely better as few people would think of it as a good place to hole up until they actually stumbled upon one while wandering around. 

 

[Free Northman Reborn]

A major issue with the "only 0.1% survived" argument, is that even Fear the Walking Dead couldn't convincingly show us why everyone would die almost instantly. Instead, it seems to have taken the better part of 3-4 months for the vast majority of people to die. So during those chaotic 3-4 months, every pharmacy, gun store and Wal Mart would have been the target of rampaging mobs of desperate survivors, who would have looted most of these places dry before themselves eventually succumbing to the zombie hordes.

Frankly, I am surprised our group is still finding ANYTHING untouched, at this point in the story. The only ammo reserves that should be remaining at this point in time should be in hidden bunkers, or storage facilities that would have been off limits to the civilian masses who were trying to make it through the first 3 months of the apocalypse.

 

[Kindly Old Man]

15 minutes ago, Leofric said:

A big box store though would be a major prize and every band of survivors would make a bee line for it to load up on supplies.  So as civilization broke down it would become a major war zone as people fought for it.  So unless a large group took charge of it early and held on to it it would most likely be gutted.    Moving further up the chain to a food warehouse may be better because fewer people would know where one was unless they were locals or had worked there. 

A prison is definitely better as few people would think of it as a good place to hole up until they actually stumbled upon one while wandering around. 

 

I think you're underestimating the scale of the depopulation in TWD. Something like 99.9% of people are dead. There'd be plenty of Wal-marts etc. for everyone. People kill each other when resources are scarce, here they'd be superabundant for quite a long time. No one would need to worry about food or shelter. For example there are over 2 million people in prison in the US right now. There are maybe 500,000 people in the TWD US. So even if every single person wanted to live in a prison they could easily do it. The most important thing to do to survive would be to cooperate with other people to make places free from zombies, and the most important resources would probably be doctors/engineers etc.

3 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

A major issue with the "only 0.1% survived" argument, is that even Fear the Walking Dead couldn't convincingly show us why everyone would die almost instantly. Instead, it seems to have taken the better part of 3-4 months for the vast majority of people to die. So during those chaotic 3-4 months, every pharmacy, gun store and Wal Mart would have been the target of rampaging mobs of desperate survivors, who would have looted most of these places dry before themselves eventually succumbing to the zombie hordes.

Frankly, I am surprised our group is still finding ANYTHING untouched, at this point in the story. The only ammo reserves that should be remaining at this point in time should be in hidden bunkers, or storage facilities that would have been off limits to the civilian masses who were trying to make it through the first 3 months of the apocalypse.

 

They looted these places and then what? Hid all the ammo somewhere unreachable? Somehow used all the ammo without killing any zombies? If anything this is an argument that they should be finding caches of food and ammo all over.

[Free Northman Reborn]

5 minutes ago, Kindly Old Man said:

I think you're underestimating the scale of the depopulation in TWD. Something like 99.9% of people are dead. There'd be plenty of Wal-marts etc. for everyone. People kill each other when resources are scarce, here they'd be superabundant for quite a long time. No one would need to worry about food or shelter. For example there are over 2 million people in prison in the US right now. There are maybe 500,000 people in the TWD US. So even if every single person wanted to live in a prison they could easily do it. The most important thing to do to survive would be to cooperate with other people to make places free from zombies, and the most important resources would probably be doctors/engineers etc.

They looted these places and then what? Hid all the ammo somewhere unreachable? Somehow used all the ammo without killing any zombies? If anything this is an argument that they should be finding caches of food and ammo all over.

They used it against each other and against zombies. But the ratio of rounds to killshot is likely in the dozens or even scores to one range.

Despite what the Show would have you believe, making headshots on moving targets is virtually impossible. Heck, making headshots on stationary targets would be virtually impossible for the vast majority of civilians.

 

[Isis]

On 3/21/2016 at 0:57 PM, dbunting said:

On the guard duty, you would think they would build up blinds or something. They way they show them they are sitting ducks for a sniper. They need a wall with some small sightline cutouts or small rooms that are dark so shooters can't see into them. As they are now anyone who is a decent shot can pick them off.

 

I kind of see that they can't have the heroes being 'too capable' at stuff otherwise 'where is the conflict/where is the story?'...but surely it's like an arms war where different groups can potentially get better (at 'warfare') at the same time? If Rick's group can go to another location and take on an organised well trained group, there's nothing to say that another group can't do it to Rick's group.

The same thing goes for Daryl and co strolling along the centre of the tracks and stopping for a chinwag without keeping a lookout. It's just idiotic and there's no excuse for doing it. Also, it just doesn't make sense that Daryl would do that from what we know of him. So, why couldn't the other group at least have snuck up on them while they were at least pretending to be careful?

It's just shitty writing if you ask me.

 

[Castel]

4 hours ago, Isis said:

. Also, it just doesn't make sense that Daryl would do that from what we know of him. So, why couldn't the other group at least have snuck up on them while they were at least pretending to be careful?

 

Because they needed to be having a stupid discussion about seizing the moment. 

 

It's TV, it just doesn't look as good if Darryl is walking and looking into the woods and not at her. 

 

It's the same stupid reason shapeshifters on TV fool someone, then shift back in their car or the minute they turn a corner when they could just...go home and do it in complete privacy. 

5 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

They used it against each other and against zombies. But the ratio of rounds to killshot is likely in the dozens or even scores to one range.

Despite what the Show would have you believe, making headshots on moving targets is virtually impossible. Heck, making headshots on stationary targets would be virtually impossible for the vast majority of civilians.

 

Not to mention what wasn't looted is probably surrounded by what can be considered environmental hazards. You probably have to spend ammo already to get into any reasonably populated area.You can't have that "everyone is dead" thing both ways. 

 

 

[Free Northman Reborn]

To clarify, I certainly think there are plenty of ammo stashes left. But not in easy to search places like gun stores or Walmarts. Those obvious stashes would all have been cleaned out first.

What remains will be in hidden private stockpiles, or randomly located in vehicles, camp sites, backpacks etc. Or in hidden armories in bunkers or other military installations.

 

 

 

[Castel]

21 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

To clarify, I certainly think there are plenty of ammo stashes left. But not in easy to search places like gun stores or Walmarts. Those obvious stashes would all have been cleaned out first.

What remains will be in hidden private stockpiles, or randomly located in vehicles, camp sites, backpacks etc. Or in hidden armories in bunkers or other military installations.

 

 

 

And effectively invisible to people who were really wandering about for significant bits of the last few seasons without the necessary intel. I'm sure they picked up stuff, kinda like with the apothecary this episode (which ended up being more profitable than it might have seemed iirc). But I think it's reasonable to believe  it was an incremental process. 

I don't think all the ammo is gone, but I can see why people aren't carrying around wheelbarrows full of Glocks and Quaker Oats, 

[Consigliere]

Well we've had a pretty good run of episodes in the back half of the season but this was not one of them and I found myself to be mostly bored throughout the episode. So the one Alexandrian who has had a modicum of character development gets killed off, and for what? Just for the sake of a "surprising death"? A person with medical training is a valuable asset in the ZA and should not be allowed to go out scavenging unless there are no other choices. At least Eugene has begun to adapt to the realities of this new world and his idea for manufacturing ammo will be important going forward. I hope that he isn't going to be killed off as well just as his character is beginning to develop.

On Carol leaving: It was poorly executed. I liked that Carol was questioning whether her way is truly better than Morgan's and exhibiting some self doubt. I find it hard to believe that Carol would willingly abandon her friends just because she does not want to kill anymore. Afterall, striking out on her own does not guarantee that she will no longer have to kill. The rationale did not make sense to me.

Question: Is the group that Daryl and Co. encounter really part of The Saviours? Correct me if I'm wrong but to the best of my recollection the last time we saw Dwight, he and those two women where on the run from The Saviours and searching for people they had left behind in the area.

[dbunting]

2 hours ago, Consigliere said:

Well we've had a pretty good run of episodes in the back half of the season but this was not one of them and I found myself to be mostly bored throughout the episode. So the one Alexandrian who has had a modicum of character development gets killed off, and for what? Just for the sake of a "surprising death"? A person with medical training is a valuable asset in the ZA and should not be allowed to go out scavenging unless there are no other choices. At least Eugene has begun to adapt to the realities of this new world and his idea for manufacturing ammo will be important going forward. I hope that he isn't going to be killed off as well just as his character is beginning to develop.

On Carol leaving: It was poorly executed. I liked that Carol was questioning whether her way is truly better than Morgan's and exhibiting some self doubt. I find it hard to believe that Carol would willingly abandon her friends just because she does not want to kill anymore. Afterall, striking out on her own does not guarantee that she will no longer have to kill. The rationale did not make sense to me.

Question: Is the group that Daryl and Co. encounter really part of The Saviours? Correct me if I'm wrong but to the best of my recollection the last time we saw Dwight, he and those two women where on the run from The Saviours and searching for people they had left behind in the area.

Half of me likes what Carol did and half doesn't. I think she doesn't want to be a liability that causes one of them to die, because she wouldn't kill someone and that is why she left.

 

I don't think they said that those people were Saviors or not, think they want us to assume it. But you did see a big scar on his face, was that there before and I just don't remember or was that his payback for breaking the rules?

[Consigliere]

1 hour ago, dbunting said:

I don't think they said that those people were Saviors or not, think they want us to assume it. But you did see a big scar on his face, was that there before and I just don't remember or was that his payback for breaking the rules?

I don't think that he had the scars before. I guess it would make sense for him to have fallen back in with The Saviours as that would explain 1) the burns and 2) Daryl's motorbike being at the outpost.

[red snow]

23 hours ago, Castel said:

And I don't want to make it seem like I'm against character development but a lot of it just wasn't as fun, Carol especially. I don't know if they're setting up her death or her survival but it is melodramatic and all. If there was any character conflict that should have consumed an episode it was that,not more speechifying from another Alexandria native. Even worse, it's going to fucking spill into the next episode now!

 

I think we're all for character development just not hamfisted and awkward like we get here. They seem to be able to do it for several characters unless it really is the actors carrying a lot of the show in this sense.

23 hours ago, Castel said:

As for why they do this: I'm more cynical and on the "budget" side tbh. That and they need to stretch out this conflict till the finale. 

 

As I rewatched it I came to the conclusion that TWD is a much better show when you're not watching week to week.

I'm sure the budget is also part of the problem but unless they hire budget writers for these episodes it's still hard to work out why they have to be bad.

It certainly works better in a binge when they do the cheap/wheel-spin episodes as you don't have to wait 4 weeks for a strong episode. I guess the shit episodes are also could at preventing people from watching too many episodes at once because if I hit this one I'd probably call it a day on the marathon.

[Swordfish]

On 3/22/2016 at 1:01 PM, Leofric said:

A big box store though would be a major prize and every band of survivors would make a bee line for it to load up on supplies.  So as civilization broke down it would become a major war zone as people fought for it.  So unless a large group took charge of it early and held on to it it would most likely be gutted.    Moving further up the chain to a food warehouse may be better because fewer people would know where one was unless they were locals or had worked there. 

A prison is definitely better as few people would think of it as a good place to hole up until they actually stumbled upon one while wandering around. 

 

 

On 3/22/2016 at 1:12 PM, Free Northman Reborn said:

A major issue with the "only 0.1% survived" argument, is that even Fear the Walking Dead couldn't convincingly show us why everyone would die almost instantly. Instead, it seems to have taken the better part of 3-4 months for the vast majority of people to die. So during those chaotic 3-4 months, every pharmacy, gun store and Wal Mart would have been the target of rampaging mobs of desperate survivors, who would have looted most of these places dry before themselves eventually succumbing to the zombie hordes.

Frankly, I am surprised our group is still finding ANYTHING untouched, at this point in the story. The only ammo reserves that should be remaining at this point in time should be in hidden bunkers, or storage facilities that would have been off limits to the civilian masses who were trying to make it through the first 3 months of the apocalypse.

 

yes.  This.

The big box stores would be empty long before full depopulation. So the food warehouses would presumably still deliver most of their stuff to stores, which would then make it's way into the hands of people.  It seems silly to me that there would be all these fully stocked sotres just sitting around waiting to be plundered even weeks after mass depopulation, much less years.

And people would be EATING the food they looted.  

[MercenaryChef]

Ever see your home depot or super market during threathe of a storm? They are hit hard for milk,  bread,  batteries,  sand bags, etc.

And that is just a storm.  Imagine the response to the dead walking the earth.  

[red snow]

13 minutes ago, MercifulChief said:

Ever see your home depot or super market during threathe of a storm? They are hit hard for milk,  bread,  batteries,  sand bags, etc.

And that is just a storm.  Imagine the response to the dead walking the earth.  

Exactly. It would be like such an event occurring on Black Friday. There would be blood.

 

How long can food supplies last with no-one replenishing things? The population would have had to have been cut down incredibly quick for it to be a long term option for the survivors. Alexandria must have been making its own food though, right? I thought the shortages were down to crops being ruined by the human and zombie attack?