SeanF Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 5 minutes ago, A Ghost of Someone said: Dany stated that she is a QUEEN, not a Politician. So she answers that question. Queens can be good but what she is saying, my way or pathway to ........ her dragon's layer. Then, I'm not really sure who the producers consider to be villains any more. If they showed Dany doing things like throwing prisoners to her dragons, and ordering the Dothraki to sack and burn Kings Landing, maybe they'd expect us to cheer her on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 The weird thing is that the show is pretending Sansa is the Starkiest of Starks, even after she "chose" to become a Bolton, when it's not that way in the books at all. GRRM has been asked several times about this and answered consistently every time. There are also very heavy hints that the Hound replaced Lady, throughout the series. How did she go from the least Stark to the most Stark? She's a Stark mascot on the show, even wearing the sigil now, she has no life of her own, she's an empty shell, they completely gutted the character, all she wants is to park her butt in Winterhell. I guess it's one of those opposite things, like with Jaime. There's this: Quote We've had these debates before about whether Sansa's actions truly resulted in her losing her wolf and father. And whether losing Lady symbolized her ceasing to be a true Stark. In fact, we've had this debate in front of GRRM twice.The first time was in St Louis in 2001 while at dinner. GRRM let us debate, smiling and nodding here and there. He also told us why he created Sansa in the first place, because there is always someone in a family that the others don't get along with. He was a bit coy in answering our questions but in the end he did indicate that Sansa did have responsibility for Lady's and Ned's deaths. I reported this to the board and I recall it being dismissed by some. I distinctly recall someone saying, "Well what I think he really meant to say was..." The second time we had this discussion was in Indy in 2007. There was a boarder there that didn't believe that Sansa's losing Lady symbolized her not being a Stark anymore. The person said so in front of GRRM and GRRM smiled and said, "Doesn't it?" http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/87941-book-spoilers-discussing-sansa-ii/&page=18#comment-4468398 Another related to the above: Quote In regards to the conversation about the dire wolves and the Starks the point was made (I forget by whom) that Lady was dead and Sansa still alive to which I replied that Sansa wasn't really much of a Stark anymore. IIRC (this is a little hazy), at this point GRRM kind of leaned back in his chair, smiled and said something to the effect of "A very astute observation." http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1273 And a recent one, in February of this year: Quote Q - Just wondering when in the first book... Sansa's wolf is killed and then Arya's goes missing or she sends it away. I was wondering if there's any kind of symbolism there, like the Stark within Sansa is dead or the Stark within Arya is missing, or if I'm just reading way too much into that, or... GRRM - You know, that's an interesting thing to contemplate and it's a good thing that you are contemplating it. Arya still has a connection to her wolf, if you read her chapter, she is still having her wolf dreams, and Nymeria is still roaming the Riverlands at the head of a gigantic pack of other wolves. So is there something going on? Who knows, perhaps. And here's another (and so many of these Hound and Lady references in the books): Quote I asked about the previous day's panel, when George had mentioned intentional mistakes. Was Sansa's memory of the Hound kissing her when he actually had not an intentional mistake? Why would she think that? He said it was in fact intentional, but he would not tell us why. I said he was mean, and he laughed at me. I also asked if Sandor would be in the upcoming book. He pleaded the fifth. I said he was mean, and he laughed at me. We talked a bit about the children and their wolves. I mentioned Sansa just having a poor old crippled dog [Sansa refers to the dog as a hound and then dreams of the Hound] because she lost her wolf. He got a queer smile about his lips when I said that and nodded. Make of that what you will. http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/To_Be_Continued_Chicago_IL_May_6_83 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruhail Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 6 minutes ago, SeanF said: Then, I'm not really sure who the producers consider to be villains any more. If they showed Dany doing things like throwing prisoners to her dragons, and ordering the Dothraki to sack and burn Kings Landing, maybe they'd expect us to cheer her on. I think thats most likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 1 minute ago, Ruhail said: I think thats most likely. Yeah, when we saw her locking Doreah in the vault to starve to death for no apparent reason (having deleted the scene showing her turning traitor) it was done to triumphant, uplifting, music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joan Jett Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 19 minutes ago, Le Cygne said: The weird thing is that the show is pretending Sansa is the Starkiest of Starks, even after she "chose" to become a Bolton, when it's not that way in the books at all. GRRM has been asked several times about this and answered consistently every time. There are also very heavy hints that the Hound replaced Lady, throughout the series. How did she go from the least Stark to the most Stark? She's a Stark mascot on the show, even wearing the sigil now, she has no life of her own, she's an empty shell, they completely gutted the character, all she wants is to park her butt in Winterhell. I guess it's one of those opposite things, like with Jaime. There's this: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/87941-book-spoilers-discussing-sansa-ii/&page=18#comment-4468398 And a recent one, in February of this year: Yes yes yes so much this! Even when Sansa had a wolf hers was the least wolf-like. Also she never once identifies as a wolf in any of her chapters. Not everyone wants to hear this though. People are quick to claim sexism and say Sansa is the starkiest wolfiest Stark with ice running through her veins. Which reminds me of those edits on tumblr of Sansa in armor and edits with quotes like "throw me to the wolves and I'll come back leading the pack" and other annoying ooc shit. That's part of the reason I'm not watching. And I'm forever here for Arya mirroring her alpha wolf. I loved when he said that. Hopefully Nym shows up this season finally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruhail Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 15 minutes ago, SeanF said: Yeah, when we saw her locking Doreah in the vault to starve to death for no apparent reason (having deleted the scene showing her turning traitor) it was done to triumphant, uplifting, music. Also noone in show questioned her decision to feed two noblemen to her dragons. I'm sure if Barristan saw that he'd bring her back down from that kind of attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince of the North Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 35 minutes ago, SeanF said: I've read that there was at one time on this forum (pre-2010) something of a Littlefinger fan club. But, to my mind, LF is one of the worst characters in the books (albeit very interesting). I can't understand why the producers wish to present him far more sympathetically. Well, it gets said a lot but I'm not sure it can be pointed out enough. I think it's because the showrunners are doing the most simplistic thing in the world, simply having many show characters do or be the opposite of their book versions, and are holding it up as character development, good writing and story-telling, and improving on the source material. It's really such a lazy and cheap approach. Also, my impression of the vast majority of LF worship on this site has been of the "everybody loves a great villain", "he's such a devious schemer" variety. But maybe that's just me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karmarni Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 6 minutes ago, Ruhail said: Also noone in show questioned her decision to feed two noblemen to her dragons. I'm sure if Barristan saw that he'd bring her back down from that kind of attitude. Another reason why Barristan is gone - there's no 'conscience' of his anymore. She is free to be as wild and burny as she wants with no one looking askance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 21 minutes ago, SeanF said: Yeah, when we saw her locking Doreah in the vault to starve to death for no apparent reason (having deleted the scene showing her turning traitor) it was done to triumphant, uplifting, music. You knew she had betrayed her though even from what they left in. My guess is the show takes the attitude that a lot of people on the book forum take which is slavers=evil=collectively=killing/torturing them is justice. There is no way they see Dany as a villain. Did you forget that horrific "Mysha" white dot savior princess in a sea of brown extras ending? LOL. The show has the same simplistic take basically that action flicks have: badasses extracting revenge is badass and cool. It is to be cheered not ruminated on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriele Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 3 minutes ago, Karmarni said: Another reason why Barristan is gone - there's no 'conscience' of his anymore. She is free to be as wild and burny as she wants with no one looking askance. He would be in the way of her empowerment. Pesky book character who isn't tormented like Ramsay, Littlefinger and Saint Tyrion, or sleeps with his sister, what use could he be to Dany? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 8 minutes ago, Cas Stark said: You knew she had betrayed her though even from what they left in. My guess is the show takes the attitude that a lot of people on the book forum take which is slavers=evil=collectively=killing/torturing them is justice. There is no way they see Dany as a villain. Did you forget that horrific "Mysha" white dot savior princess in a sea of brown extras ending? LOL. The show has the same simplistic take basically that action flicks have: badasses extracting revenge is badass and cool. It is to be cheered not ruminated on. Fuck me. Why do you guys insist on reminding me of things I want to never ever think about ever again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aFeastForDragons Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 ^Worst season finale scene ever. Give me some white walkers or Lady Stoneheart. Anything but that white supremacy crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruhail Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 New article http://www.ew.com/article/2016/04/14/game-thrones-spoilers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis is the man....nis Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 6 minutes ago, Ruhail said: New article http://www.ew.com/article/2016/04/14/game-thrones-spoilers Yeah spoiling things are awful like saying "when George told us about this" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruhail Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 2 minutes ago, Stannis is the man....nis said: Yeah spoiling things are awful like saying "when George told us about this" So if they're saying this it must mean some of the online spoilers were true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis is the man....nis Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 Just now, Ruhail said: So if they're saying this it must mean some of the online spoilers were true I pretty sure they are referring to the pictures of Jon in a Stark uniform Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruhail Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 1 minute ago, Stannis is the man....nis said: I pretty sure they are referring to the pictures of Jon in a Stark uniform Ah ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 2 minutes ago, Stannis is the man....nis said: Yeah spoiling things are awful like saying "when George told us about this" I'm like my mom... I read the first initial chapters, then the ending, and then I sit down and totally go down under in the middle of it. I read for the journey, not for the hasty page-turning to find out ASAP what's gonna happen next. Just had a discussion about that last week with my dad. He does the from start-to end manner. But he addmitted he could understand that indeed it would make you relax and enjoy the middle way better. Only works though if books are well written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meera of Tarth Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 Just saw Peter Dinklage in the red capter from the premiere..........OH my!!!! what does he say???It's unbelievable!!!!! Is he immune to the D's??? I'm thinking...what if Saint Tyrion really gets roasted this season??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 21 minutes ago, Ruhail said: New article http://www.ew.com/article/2016/04/14/game-thrones-spoilers Why don't they call these EWwww things what they really are, press releases for the showrunners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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