[Spoilers] Rant and Rave Without Reprecussions - Season 6, Tally-Ho

[The Wull]

What if Olly flees the Wall and ends up at WF with Ramsay? Imagine the reaction shots every time Walda is mentioned!  We could just keep sending him to new locations every couple of episodes.  The Twins? The BwB? Dorne? 

The possibilities are endless.

[Mister Stoneheart]

I don't understand why these adapters choose death as the only way out.  Sometimes stories come to a close and characters move on or away from the central action.

Not here!  No longer useful to the plot?  A bit too complex for story time?  OFF YOU GO!!!!  *stabbity stab stab*

It's like watching And Then There Were None, medieval style, with a cast of 1200 characters.

[kissdbyfire]

42 minutes ago, Coby's Watch said:

Just one really important thing that DD and perhaps also some other people („show defenders“ - I actually don’t want to call them like that) don’t get: In literature as well as in serious visual mediums, it is the journey that matters. I mean who really thought that Harry Potter won’t win against Voldemort, who really thought that Mr Darcy and Liz will not end up as a couple. E.g. The Death of the Salesman, I mean the major plot is already spoiled in the title but the death of Willy Lowman is not the point of the story, important is the way in which or for what he died. The characters develop; they are confronted with serious dilemma and stuff. In most and especially in classic literature (also mostly the literature one reads in schools), the end is predictable. But it is not the end that makes the story; it is the part in between.

 

Then there is another thing, people don’t get: There are 2 different types of formula available in art. These formulas are linked with what I said before. We have “form follows function” versus “function follows form” aka “characters follow plot” and “plot follows characters”. If I decide to do “characters follow plot” thus “function follows form”, we will get a boring, predictable, mostly stereotypical, plot in which characters behave the way the plot demands them to behave. And I think, probably since season 4, we have exactly this in GOT. Characters don’t create the plot themselves, but the plot demands the characters to be created (or depicted in a certain way). And this leads to multiple personality disorder in characters such as Sansa, Jamie et al. As a result, characters in GOT are first and foremost empty shells, figures on a chess board; thus they need to be filled with whatever the plot demands.

 

In addition, I want to add that I am actually over GOT. I don’t care anymore, I just find everything ridiculous. However, there is one thing left that really bothers me (I could go nuts), namely: people don’t stop claiming that GOT is a high-quality TV show. Sorry, I have no problem with people that like and enjoy this show, I just have a problem with those kind of people that don’t want to admit that it is just Sunday evening entertainment. I mean it is totally fine to watch nonsense in TV, I actually often do this, BUT please don’t try to tell me that GOT or CSI or whatever are quality drama, please 

 

Well said, I agree.

[Sir Loin Steak]

7 hours ago, teej6 said:

Oh well, I guess show Brienne is supposed to be Joan of Arc. I hope she doesn't end up burned at the stake. 

I think show!Brienne has more in common with Jason Voorhees: a hulking murder machine that can appear out of nowhere and magically track teenage girls.

[kissdbyfire]

1 minute ago, Sir Loin Steak said:

I think show!Brienne has more in common with Jason Voorhees: a hulking murder machine that can appear out of nowhere and magically track teenage girls.

 

[Tijgy]

21 minutes ago, The Wull said:

What if Olly flees the Wall and ends up at WF with Ramsay? Imagine the reaction shots every time Walda is mentioned!  We could just keep sending him to new locations every couple of episodes.  The Twins? The BwB? Dorne? 

The possibilities are endless.

Especially if Littlefinger learns him teleporting.

And he would probably become everyone's confidant and would be seen as their successor because he is their confidant. 

The possibilities are really endless. I cannot wait to see this. He might even get to Meereen. 

[The Fattest Leech]

1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

In my version - well, not my version, but what I think will happen - Olly is fatally wounded by anyone other than Jon. And in his final moments, while Jon holds him in his arms, Olly will ask forgiveness, and teary-eyed Jon not only forgives him, or worse, tells Olly he has nothing to ask forgiveness for, and apologises for having failed him. Hugely. Dramatically. Satisfying. 

 

I very much agree with this and I think we got a few glimpses of this in S5. It will be a sad 2 minute scene set in silence and head nods.

Now... who will accidentally wound Olly. Maybe Edd? Then Jon can just cut him out of the story permanently since he is kinda useless anyway.

[sweetsunray]

8 minutes ago, Tijgy said:

Especially if Littlefinger learns him teleporting.

And he would probably become everyone's confidant and would be seen as their successor because he is their confidant. 

The possibilities are really endless. I cannot wait to see this. He might even get to Meereen. 

Hmmm seeing Olly die next episode or seeing him glare at either St Tyrion or Deadpan... Very hard choice.

[kissdbyfire]

Just now, The Fattest Leech said:

I very much agree with this and I think we got a few glimpses of this in S5. It will be a sad 2 minute scene set in silence and head nods.

Now... who will accidentally wound Olly. Maybe Edd? Then Jon can just cut him out of the story permanently since he is kinda useless anyway.

Or Tormund, that murderous bastard. Too bad the Thenns are not there - as a matter of fact, what the hell happened to them? Did they all fall though some plot black hole? - or they could just try to eat Olly. That would be more hugely dramatically satisfying.

 

[The Fattest Leech]

2 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Or Tormund, that murderous bastard. Too bad the Thenns are not there - as a matter of fact, what the hell happened to them? Did they all fall though some plot black hole? - or they could just try to eat Olly. That would be more hugely dramatically satisfying.

 

They are busy eating the other northern houses that should have been in the story by now.

[SeanF]

56 minutes ago, The Wull said:

What if Olly flees the Wall and ends up at WF with Ramsay? Imagine the reaction shots every time Walda is mentioned!  We could just keep sending him to new locations every couple of episodes.  The Twins? The BwB? Dorne? 

The possibilities are endless.

If Olly flees to Ramsay, he'll probably become the new Reek.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

12 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

The hounds were after Sansa and then they just disappeared...

Sorry, can't hear talk about hounds and Sansa without thinking of how she missed "hounds to bark and growl" because real Sansa misses the Hound... 

Sansa: [running] ...those sounds... oh... [stops] it reminds me to the H--- [dogs get her]

 

[SeanF]

2 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

Book Dany: Dany rose, wiped her hands on her ragged undertunic, and went to stand beside her dragon.

Show Dany: Alone, threatened with rape until she says she's Drogo's wife and two bros on a road trip find her ring.

Drogo did help her realize her own potential (another one of those love stories that is centered on character development, like the ones they cut for Sansa and Brienne, because they don't need no men). But her story evolved from there, in a very beautiful way in her last chapter, everything came together, and she met the Dothraki from a position of power. I seriously doubt they talked about her that way with Drogon beside her. The grass bowed before him just before that, and he ate a horse (talk about symbolism). And she ate the horse with him.

You do wonder why, when the producers of the Show are gifted a chapter like Dany's last one in ADWD, they choose to do something different.

[Cas Stark]

Fucking Olly.  What did we get? 3 or was it 4 reaction shots?  Why?  

Whomever said that Olly won't die until Jon is resurrected and then he and Jon can have a bro forgiveness scene I think was spot on.  Or, they will give him a tragic death scene where we will supposed to feel sad he dies instead of jumping up in front of the TV doing a high five and yelling 'about fucking time'.

[kissdbyfire]

http://www.vulture.com/2016/04/game-of-thrones-dorne-plot-whats-going-on.html

<...>

Some of that stuff should be exciting! You've got sex, violence, betrayal — all the things that people loved about Oberyn. And yet, almost none of it works. Ellaria Sand's grief has turned her into a two-dimensional villain. Doran's years of careful scheming have been replaced with ... nothing. And the Sand Snakes appear to have no interior lives whatsoever. They're the TV version of Kate Beaton's Strong Female Characters, the kind of violent, scantily clad women that emerge when creators want to pay lip service to feminism, but don't have the time or inclination to create actual three-dimensional female characters.

Throughout it all, there's been little indication why anyone is doing the things they're doing. Why does Ellaria want revenge on Cersei, a woman who was only tangentially involved in Oberyn's death, and had absolutely nothing to do with House Lannister's earlier atrocities against the Martells? Why do she and the Sand Snakes hate Doran enough to indulge in kinslaying, a supreme taboo in Westeros? And, after staging such a random coup, why do they think anyone else in Dorne would accept them as rulers?

The whole plot line suffers from a lack of context: The only thing that matters is what's happening onscreen at that exact moment. It's a problem Game of Thrones has been struggling with in recent seasons. Think back to season one: We had a generally good grasp of King Robert's court, the various players on the Small Council, the public opinion in King's Landing. In the seasons devoted to the War of the Five Kings, too, it was easy to get the gist of what each faction wanted and why they wanted it.

But around the time the show got into the material of Feast and Dance, a lot of this context dropped out. Those two books are devoted to exploring the wreckage of the civil war and the chaos that emerges in its wake. The narrative is full of tangents, and the tone is ruminative and regretful — stuff that wouldn't work on TV, where forward momentum is the way to go. Showrunners David Benioff and D.B. Weiss aren't the world-builders that George R.R. Martin is, and they understandably used a heavy hand in adapting this material for the screen. Think of Meereen, where the Sons of the Harpy's major coup was assassinating a crowd of their fellow slave-owners at the fighting pit, and where Tyrion's rule has consisted of wandering around an empty city. Or take Roose Bolton in Winterfell, who has to periodically remind viewers that he's about to declare war on the Lannisters, for reasons that still aren't quite clear. It's easy to say this stuff is just politics, but at its heart, Game of Thrones is just politics. When it doesn't make sense, the show doesn't make sense.

 

 

[kissdbyfire]

5 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Fucking Olly.  What did we get? 3 or was it 4 reaction shots?  Why?  

Whomever said that Olly won't die until Jon is resurrected and then he and Jon can have a bro forgiveness scene I think was spot on.  Or, they will give him a tragic death scene where we will supposed to feel sad he dies instead of jumping up in front of the TV doing a high five and yelling 'about fucking time'.

That was me. It's happening, bank it. It's just typical GoT. And Mr Benioff and Mr Weiss and Kit Harington made it a point of saying in interviews that "Jon failed Olly". 

[Prince of the North]

1 hour ago, Coby's Watch said:

[snipped a lot of good stuff for length]...BUT please don’t try to tell me that GOT or CSI or whatever are quality drama, please 

 

Completely agreed! 

[voodooqueen126]

23 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

Correction: it was Alex Graves (regular director) who likened Brienne to a lesbian regarding the bath scene with Jaime, in an interview with Hitfix

“…the scene with Jaime and Brienne in the bathtub is like you’re shooting a film with a lesbian and a knight,..."

 

23 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

All this talk of Fansa being turned off by men because of her rape and Cogman claiming Brute is a lesbian, and Brute becoming Fansa's knight who magically chases off hounds... We have a "beauty" and we have a "beast"... Are D&D shipping Fansa & Brute or something? 

(Note: sexual preference is not an issue for me, but the Butch stereotype and the idea that women become lesbians because of rape is what makes me go . If Sansa had actually been written to have lesbian feelings for another woman I'd cheer the ship, but in the above case it's just warped)

It's impossible for Sansa to be a lesbian because she is conventionally attractive. Just as it is impossible for Brienne to be straight because she is plain.

[Cas Stark]

3 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

That was me. It's happening, bank it. It's just typical GoT. And Mr Benioff and Mr Weiss and Kit Harington made it a point of saying in interviews that "Jon failed Olly". 

I agree.  It's awful how much screen time they give to made up characters who have no role whatsoever in the plot.  At least Ros did a little here and there to move along some plot points and deliver some info.  Olly is totally useless, pointless, not to mention INFURIATING. 

[Prince of the North]

13 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

http://www.vulture.com/2016/04/game-of-thrones-dorne-plot-whats-going-on.html

 WOW!  I like it! Thanks, that was...quite interesting