Police killed at Dallas protest

[mormont]

7 hours ago, IamMe90 said:

Yeah, because the minuscule number of police officers that have been killed his year (due to no doubt a plethora of causes, not all of which involve murder by black people) and the systematic and steady killing of black people by law enforcement are totally the same thing and warrant the same consideration and status as social problems. Or do you think that 57 police lives equal (at least) 136 black lives?

It's not a numbers game, though. We would indeed need #policelivesmatter, if police deaths were occurring in dubious circumstances after routine interactions with people in positions of public authority, if those deaths got little coverage in the media or coverage that focused exclusively on criticising the dead officers for unrelated crimes and their own contribution to the circumstances that led to their deaths, if the perpetrators were routinely investigated and then cleared or given small administrative penalties instead of jail time: if, in short, there was clearly a big social problem behind those deaths that had to be dealt with. That would apply whether it was 6,000 deaths a year or 6.

 

[Which Tyler]

8 hours ago, IamMe90 said:

Yeah, because the minuscule number of police officers that have been killed his year (due to no doubt a plethora of causes, not all of which involve murder by black people) and the systematic and steady killing of black people by law enforcement are totally the same thing and warrant the same consideration and status as social problems. Or do you think that 57 police lives equal (at least) 136 black lives?

Some stats for you (in case anyone's interested)

 

In 2015¹, 1,146 people were killed by the police in the USA.
In 2015², 13,286 people died by "gun violence" in the USA (excl suicide).
In 2015³, 56 cops died as a result of violent assault (deliberate gunfire[39], vehicular assault[8], bomb[6], unarmed[3]).

 

2015¹ saw the following numbers killed by police in the USA:
581 White
306 Black
195 Hispanic / Latino
24 Asian / Pacific Island
13 Native American
27 Unknown / Other

In terms of dead (at police hands) per million of that population, we get:
7.27 Black
3.51 Hispanic/Latino
3.40 Native American
2.93 White
1.34 Asian / Pacific Island

 

Out of interest, and looking in a little more detail¹.
Of the 1146 people killed by police in 2015; 1019 of them were shot.
Of that 1146; 229 of them were unarmed.
Of that 229: 111 of those died by gunshot; 46 by Taser, 42 died in custody, 29 struck by vehicle, 1 unarmed combat.
Of that 229, the racial breakdown is: 103 = White, 79 = black, 36 = Hispanic, 5 A/PI; 4 NA.

 

1: http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database
2: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34996604
3: https://www.odmp.org/search/year?year=2015

[ElizabethB.]

9 hours ago, IamMe90 said:

 

Are you daft? Dr. Pepper is facetiously referencing the character assassination that inevitably occurs with victims of police brutality. 

What? No, that can't be the case. Dr. Pepper is certainly not that petty. 

[kairparavel]

8 hours ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

 Holy I'll be back, Batman, they killed the Dallas shooter with a fucking robot...

 http://money.cnn.com/2016/07/08/technology/dallas-robot-death/

Actually, they killed him with a bomb - C4.The robot was just the vase carrying the flowers, as it were. Even more troublesome is the robot is meant to defuse bombs, not deliver them. We should all have a lot of questions. It's my understanding that this is another example of hand me down military equipment now part of municipal police forces. Was blowing up the suspect the absolutely only choice left? 

[Altherion]

7 minutes ago, kairparavel said:

Was blowing up the suspect the absolutely only choice left? 

No. They claimed that it was the method safest for the police officers. I'm not sure that this is true -- he didn't have any hostages so they had a lot of options (e.g. gas to knock him out or simply barricade him in there and wait until he gives up or falls asleep)

[MercenaryChef]

had this man only shot regular citizens or even protesters there is no way in the world he would have been dispatched with a robot carrying a bomb. 

the police were done dying for the day and their lives are more valuable than anyone else's.  

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

28 minutes ago, MercifulChief said:

had this man only shot regular citizens or even protesters there is no way in the world he would have been dispatched with a robot carrying a bomb. 

the police were done dying for the day and their lives are more valuable than anyone else's.  

And that, in my opinion, is a huge part of the problem.  Police do a difficult and demanding job.  They do it in harsh and confusing circumstances.  But their lives are not more valuable or more precious than the lives of the people they are supposed to serve and protect.  They are not supposed to have license to kill where their lives are not under direct threat.

Law Enforcement is using the justification of "officer safety" to attempt to legitimize any and all actions taken for that purported reason.  They chose a diffcult and demanding profession that requires they put their lives at risk.  "Officer safety" is not an automatic out.  It is being overused.

[maarsen]

1 minute ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

And that, in my opinion, is a huge part of the problem.  Police do a difficult and demanding job.  They do it in harsh and confusing circumstances.  But their lives are not more valuable or more precious than the lives of the people they are supposed to serve and protect.  They are not supposed to have license to kill where their lives are not under direct threat.

Law Enforcement is using the justification of "officer safety" to attempt to legitimize any and all actions taken for that purported reason.  They chose a diffcult and demanding profession that requires they put their lives at risk.  "Officer safety" is not an automatic out.  It is being overused.

There are more dangerous jobs than policing.  Hospital workers,  at least here in Canada,  run a much higher risk of assault or injury.  

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

16 minutes ago, maarsen said:

There are more dangerous jobs than policing.  Hospital workers,  at least here in Canada,  run a much higher risk of assault or injury.  

And?  That doesn't change anything about what I said.  I didn't say being a LEO is the "most dangerous" job.  I simply acknowledge that it is dangerous.  The fact that it is dangerous does not justify any and all actions taken for "officer safety".  That's my point.

[ElizabethB.]

39 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

And that, in my opinion, is a huge part of the problem.  Police do a difficult and demanding job.  They do it in harsh and confusing circumstances.  But their lives are not more valuable or more precious than the lives of the people they are supposed to serve and protect.  They are not supposed to have license to kill where their lives are not under direct threat.

Law Enforcement is using the justification of "officer safety" to attempt to legitimize any and all actions taken for that purported reason.  They chose a diffcult and demanding profession that requires they put their lives at risk.  "Officer safety" is not an automatic out.  It is being overused.

Are the police officers really expected to serve and protect slayers over not only their own lives, but over their ability to serve and protect everyone else during a massacre, in the US? 

I so do wish that the gunman would have believed that all lives matter... It really is awful...

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

8 minutes ago, ElizabethB. said:

Are the police officers really expected to serve and protect slayers over not only their own lives, but over their ability to serve and protect everyone else during a massacre, in the US? 

I so do wish that the gunman would have believed that all lives matter... It really is awful...

Yes. Law Enforcement isn't above the law.  They do not get to kill people because it is "easier".  

[James Arryn]

2 hours ago, ElizabethB. said:

What? No, that can't be the case. Dr. Pepper is certainly not that petty. 

I admit I have no idea if you're joking here or not.

[JGP]

26 minutes ago, ElizabethB. said:

Are the police officers really expected to serve and protect slayers over not only their own lives, but over their ability to serve and protect everyone else during a massacre, in the US?

Public servants, whose duty is to serve and protect-- both the law and citizens.

I don't think that the nature or legal history of said citizen(s) is largely relevant, although of course some officers no doubt make determinations quite often, i.e. drug dealer, pedo = who cares... But that's an individual thing and arguably not an officially accepted part of their job.

[Martell Spy]

Quote

There are more dangerous jobs than policing.  Hospital workers,  at least here in Canada,  run a much higher risk of assault or injury.

 

This seems to be more common than ever here in the Seattle area. I'm not a hospital worker, but someone that is a patient at them quite a bit. This last year was the first times I was asked if I'm carrying a weapon each time I went there. (I never am) I also overheard hospital workers discussing an incident of patient on hospital worker violence. One of them sounded really pissed about the incident, and other incidents in general.

[ElizabethB.]

I wonder how many people they could have saved if they had acted more efficiently. 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

14 minutes ago, ElizabethB. said:

I wonder how many people they could have saved if they had acted more efficiently. 

You do realize the right to life is not linked to "efficiency", right?

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

1 hour ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Yes. Law Enforcement isn't above the law.  They do not get to kill people because it is "easier".  

Once a cop gets killed, they pretty much do. When a cop killer gets taken alive, I'm literally gobsmacked. It's basically a Bigfoot riding Nessie sighting.

[ElizabethB.]

Look, if you strip your police forces the ability to use force, you'll be funding a very macabre circus.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

15 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Once a cop gets killed, they pretty much do. When a cop killer gets taken alive, I'm literally gobsmacked. It's basically a Bigfoot riding Nessie sighting.

That's what happens.  That doesn't make it okay.

[ElizabethB.]

29 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

You do realize the right to life is not linked to "efficiency", right?

I never wrote anything even remotely close to that.