OldGimletEye Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 1 minute ago, butterbumps! said: Well that's the narrative being spun by his base and his grotesquerie, but I thought both viewers and pundits agreed Clinton took it. I struggle to believe that a reasonable, non Brietbart pundit could determine that Trump won. Or even that it could be tied. Looking at polling data is for dirty hippies not "real conservatives". Even if the Trumpster tied, I think it would be hard to argue that said tie would be capable of reversing things. Trump needed a home run. He didn't get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Stone Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 The thing that bothered me most about the debate was Trump stating that if he won he would sick federal prosecutors on Hillary. Have we ever had the winner of an election use the powers of the office to punish the loser? Sounds like some real 3rd-world country dictator type shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maarsen Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 2 hours ago, DunderMifflin said: I'd say Trump would be outside of royalty. He clearly doesn't belong with the establishment. He might be like a Ramsay, once a bastard now legit. People please! Who would Trump be but Littlefinger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunderMifflin Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 4 minutes ago, butterbumps! said: I mean, he literally threatened to lock up his opponent upon his victory. That's crazy I haven't had a chance to watch it yet that sounds like meltdown shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butterbumps! Posted October 10, 2016 Author Share Posted October 10, 2016 16 minutes ago, maarsen said: People please! Who would Trump be but Littlefinger. I never thought I'd ever compare LF favorably to anything, but seriously, this is giving waaay too much undeserved credit to Trump. 16 minutes ago, DunderMifflin said: That's crazy I haven't had a chance to watch it yet that sounds like meltdown shit. yea, this is why I am finding this debate so terrifying. He went full on totalitarian with this: Quote “I didn’t think I’d say this but I’m going to say it, and I hate to say it, but if I win, I am going to instruct my attorney general to get a special prosecutor to look into your situation because there has never been so many lies, so much deception, there has never been anything like it and we’re going to have a special prosecutor,” Trump said during the presidential debate, referring to her emails. Clinton responded by inviting viewers to fact-check what Trump was saying on her campaign website. “We have literally Trump, you can fact check him in real time. Last time, at the first debate, we had millions of people fact-checking. So I expect we’ll have millions more fact-checking because, you know, it is, it’s just awfully good that someone with the temperament of Donald Trump is not in charge of the law in our country,” she said. “Because you would be in jail,” Trump said to Clinton. But really, this is just a continuation of previous "policy" dreams he's shared with us, like how government employees should be able to fired for political affiliation and the like. eta: here's a Slate piece on the jail threats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IheartIheartTesla Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 My first Presidential election as a US citizen and its a toxic dumpster fire. I couldnt be more disgusted. Anyway, speaking of turnout, there is no hidden pool of Trump voters that are going to magically show up at the polls. The likely voter screens have caught most of them and I trust the 5-6 point lead that Clinton has right now. The only question in my mind now if we get some reverting back to the mean, i.e., a 3-4 point lead that seems to be the consensus view on what the election should look like, or if Trump reaches his floor when women desert him en masse (even more so than now). That would probably be a 10 point lead or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mlle. Zabzie Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 Paul Ryan's conscience is apparently coming back from vacation. No word on whether his courage is in tow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 21 minutes ago, butterbumps! said: Well that's the narrative being spun by his base and his grotesquerie, but I thought both viewers and pundits agreed Clinton took it. I struggle to believe that a reasonable, non Brietbart pundit could determine that Trump won. Or even that it could be tied. I mean, he literally threatened to lock up his opponent upon his victory. I would hope that should be an immediately disqualifying action for a "win." I agree about turnout, though. Luckily, since Clinton is running a real campaign, she's been on top of this. I think it really depends on how one is defining 'won'. I tend to think that the one that excites their would be supporters most is the winner. In a way, it could be a draw. When Trump calls sexual assault locker room talk or shows he knows nothing about policy or how government works or that he's going to find someone who will ignore the law in order to toss Hillary in jail, I think a lot of us HIllary/anti-Trump voters are fired up. On the other hand, Trump riled up his base with a lot of zingers. That whole thing about throwing his political opponent in jail was probably the biggest but the thing about the Supreme Court judges helped those who hate Trump but hate women and gays more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerPaladin Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 I was looking forward to the local talk radio guy squirm with the Trump comments. He's the usual mix of holier than thou and rabid Trump guy. Most of the talk was about how thoroughly Trump won the debate, then they spent an hour taking republican Congressman LoBiondo to task for withdrawing his support of Trump on Saturday. the host played it both ways, but was obviously goosing the "poll" to get opposition to LoBiondo. I called in to ask where I could send a check to Mr. LoBiondo's campaign. Not well received. On the other side of the aisle, my recently turned 18 year old daughter registered to vote after watching last night's debate. She evolved from "these people both suck" to "wow, he should not be allowed to be president". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigima Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 Embarrassing for the Republicans who are still not clear of the Trumpnado. Great, Paul Ryan won't defend or campaign for Trump. He's still fucking endorsing him -- not endorsing is such a tiny drop of water in the bucket and he doesn't even have the intestinal fortitude to do that. We already knew Ryan was bad at math, but who knew he was such a pathetic, gutless worm? Kasich and a few others get credit from me for never supporting Trump. Every other national Republican figure deserves only minor variances in national scorn. I'm glad McCain and some others withdrew their endorsements, but at this juncture that's still too little too late to get any real respect -- it's plainly an attempt to salvage their careers. Trump has been shameful for months and months now and it's crazy that it took this long to get a disavowal from these people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 First, fully post-tape, pre-debate poll is out, via NBC/WSJ Clinton leads 46-35-9-2 in the 4-way and 52-38 in the 2-way. Those are some big numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime L Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 1 hour ago, Ken Stone said: The thing that bothered me most about the debate was Trump stating that if he won he would sick federal prosecutors on Hillary. Have we ever had the winner of an election use the powers of the office to punish the loser? Sounds like some real 3rd-world country dictator type shit. If you don't change your board name to Ken Bone, I don't know why we even have a board to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolendil Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 2 hours ago, Gertrude said: Why can't Hillary be Stannis - part of the establishment, rightful heir apparent. Would be a competent leader but the people will never love him/her It even works with Bill as Robert. Don't get hung up on her sex. Not entirely accurate comparison - Hillary Clinton merely passively supports a Jihadist rebellion, while Stannis basically was a Jihadist himself. But yes, it's surprisingly fitting. Unloved but competent, grim and dutiful, supported by Goldman Sachs Iron Bank, etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempra Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 48 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said: I think it really depends on how one is defining 'won'. I tend to think that the one that excites their would be supporters most is the winner. In a way, it could be a draw. When Trump calls sexual assault locker room talk or shows he knows nothing about policy or how government works or that he's going to find someone who will ignore the law in order to toss Hillary in jail, I think a lot of us HIllary/anti-Trump voters are fired up. On the other hand, Trump riled up his base with a lot of zingers. That whole thing about throwing his political opponent in jail was probably the biggest but the thing about the Supreme Court judges helped those who hate Trump but hate women and gays more. When did Trump say he was going to "ignore the law" to throw Hillary in jail? He said he would appoint a special prosecutor to investigate her actions, presumably because many people question the FBI investigation. Assuming she was actually indicted, she would still be entitled to due process, including a jury trial, the right to cross examine her accusers, and the right to remain silent (to name just a few). Let's not pretend Trump said he was going to order her detained and sent to Gitmo without trial. Besides, why are you nervous? No reasonable prosecutor would recommend charges against Clinton. There is plenty of legitimate shit to attack Trump about without making things up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolendil Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 1 hour ago, Tempra said: When did Trump say he was going to "ignore the law" to throw Hillary in jail? He said he would appoint a special prosecutor to investigate her actions, presumably because many people question the FBI investigation There is plenty of legitimate shit to attack Trump about without making things up. Well, the polarization of the American voters is what it is. Truth doesn't matter much. The anger-based tribalism of this election is really fascinating to watch, I doubt there's been anything like it in American history. And while it's unprecedented in the US until now, this kind of tribalistic politics is actually the norm for humanity in most times and places. Is Donald Trump the quiff'd harbinger of doom for the American experiment? Not saying he is, but not saying he isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 OK, so let's be clear about what Trump said, then. He said he'd instruct his AG to appoint a special prosecutor, during a Presidential debate. This would then be a politically motivated and directed prosecution. I don't see that anyone could deny that. He wants to do this on vague, ill-defined charges, which seem to include a potentially criminal issue that has already been investigated (to no avail) but he also suggested it will be much broader than that. This suggests that he's looking for stuff to charge her with, rather than dealing with a due process of law. And he publicly stated that it would end with her in jail, completely compromising and literally prejudicing the outcome. Now, if you're not concerned with that lot and don't consider it to be pretty out there and scary, fine, but lots of us do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigima Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 48 minutes ago, Fez said: First, fully post-tape, pre-debate poll is out, via NBC/WSJ Clinton leads 46-35-9-2 in the 4-way and 52-38 in the 2-way. Those are some big numbers. Post-debate, surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 3 minutes ago, Inigima said: Post-debate, surely? The polling was conducted over the weekend, prior to the debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 Just now, Inigima said: Post-debate, surely? No, pre-debate. It was conducted Saturday and Sunday. Hopefully they do another one next weekend so that we can get a better sense of what effect the debate itself has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 30 minutes ago, Tempra said: When did Trump say he was going to "ignore the law" to throw Hillary in jail? He said he would appoint a special prosecutor to investigate her actions, presumably because many people question the FBI investigation. Assuming she was actually indicted, she would still be entitled to due process, including a jury trial, the right to cross examine her accusers, and the right to remain silent (to name just a few). Let's not pretend Trump said he was going to order her detained and sent to Gitmo without trial. Besides, why are you nervous? No reasonable prosecutor would recommend charges against Clinton. There is plenty of legitimate shit to attack Trump about without making things up. I'm nervous not only because he said he was going to appoint someone to prosecute her and that she will end up in jail but also because there are people like you who don't recognize what he was saying as being worrisome or think the audience is making shit up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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