Dr. Pepper Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Just now, Mudguard said: It's a protest march. I wouldn't call that acceptance. I think it's still peaceful now, but not sure. Protesting against what? Because Trump threatened his supporters would protest the legitimacy of the election. Unless these people are doing that, not sure why you are trying to compare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wethers Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 2 minutes ago, Mr Fixit said: You guys in the USA are really trigger-happy with the big words like fascism and communism, aren't you? I don't believe Trump is a fascist. And anyway, even if he was, that's your problem for having a broken, corrupt kleptocracy in DC that even real Gordon Gecko is ashamed of. Were you referring to RBPL as "you guys in the USA?" I've been to Dunedin. Lovely place. Nice penguins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunderMifflin Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 1 hour ago, Mr Fixit said: President Trump?? What a message to wake up to. This feels like I went out partying and drinking all night and brought someone home. Now I'm sobered up and Its like, who is this orange man I had sex with last night???? Oh shit??? We got married too??? Wtf??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A True Kaniggit Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 As I sit here, I can't help but think, how happy is Putin right now? I know he probably hoped this would happen. But did he actually believe this would happen? How much of a free reign did we just give him in the rest of the world in the years to come? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altherion Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 12 minutes ago, Shryke said: On that note, Ohio is not super surprising and has not really been expected to go Clinton for awhile now from what I remember. Ohio is getting pretty white basically. Yes, but by 1-3%, not by 9%. It's the margin that is surprising. 12 minutes ago, Shryke said: Secondly, Trump didn't win the popular vote. Almost certainly by the time California rolls in completely, he will have lost it. OK, I see. That's why the NYT et al are estimating a different percentage than Google. Here's another interesting tidbit: according to CNN, Trump appears to have done better among both African-Americans and Latinos than Romney. Quote Some 88% of African-American voters supported Clinton, versus 8% for Donald Trump, as of very early Wednesday morning. While that's a large margin, it's not as big as Obama's victory over Mitt Romney in 2012. Obama locked up 93% of the black vote to Romney's 7%. Some 12% of the electorate was African-American this year, compared to 13% four years ago. ... Only 65% of Latinos backed her, while 29% cast their votes for Trump. In 2012, Obama won 71% of the Hispanic vote and Romney secured 27%. Hispanics inched up to 11% of the electorate, up from 10% in 2012. Trump only picked up a percent or two of it, but those are substantial drops in support for the Democrats: 5% among African-Americans and 6% among Latinos. I guess the rest of the votes went to third parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudguard Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Just now, Dr. Pepper said: Protesting against what? Because Trump threatened his supporters would protest the legitimacy of the election. Unless these people are doing that, not sure why you are trying to compare. They are protesting the result of the election, that Trump won. Actually, there are multiple protests going on in California right now. People were complaining that Trump's supporters wouldn't accept the results of the election if he lost, and that's what these people are now doing because Clinton lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris the Blade Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 So many were just told that their country, as A Thing, hates them. They might know that many people do really love them and are there for them, but not their country. Their country does not care, and is not there for them, and would rather that they not exist. Suicides are going to spike. But yea, lets celebrate this. Fucking hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 3 minutes ago, felice said: If Trump wasn't unelectable, nobody is unelectable. Nah. Trump demonstrated that being a racist serial sexual assaulter with no coherent positions is not a bar to being President on the GOP ticket. That's not the same as saying a socialist could win. Or that anyone could win on any ticket. Like, Trump's negatives aren't flaws to his base. Some of them are, frankly, positives. That's the whole deal here. The positions he did have his base liked and the rest of the GOP was willing to put party over everything else and pull the lever. I'm not sure that works for Sanders with the Democrats to near the same degree. I mean, if it had Clinton would probably have won. I'm not saying Sanders is unelectable mind you, just that Trump winning does not mean anyone is electable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 5 minutes ago, Mr Fixit said: You guys in the USA are really trigger-happy with the big words like fascism and communism, aren't you? I don't believe Trump is a fascist. And anyway, even if he was, that's your problem for having a broken, corrupt kleptocracy in DC that even real Gordon Gecko is ashamed of. Some of us aren't Americans either. Just helpless spectators to a country that helped save the world from fascism go down a very, very dark path. In case you didn't notice, the KKK were backing this guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 16 minutes ago, Mudguard said: Marching through the streets and highways in Berkeley CA. Definitely protesting and a lot of anger, but maybe not quite rioting yet. Are Democrats going to condemn these protestors like they were ripping the expected Trump supporters that were assumed to be protesting the results? Are they saying the election was not legitimate or are they just protesting the whole idea that an racist bigoted authoritarian narcissist just won the election? Cause until they are saying Trump didn't win rather then that it's terrible that he did win, this equivalency does not hold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altherion Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 A Russian newspaper is reporting (Google translate link) that when news of Trump's victory was announced at the plenary meeting of the Russian Duma (i.e. their parliament), the tail end of the announcement was drowned out by applause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Fascism is not a big word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liffguard Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Imagine you're on a night out with Britain and the USA, and you've all had a few too many. UK is that guy who's watched too many jackass reruns and decides to do the most stupid thing he can think of to get his drunken friends to laugh. USA is the guy who then says, "that's nothing, hold my beer and watch this." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 13 minutes ago, Shryke said: What matters are the positions of the GOP members of Congress and whether or not Trump would veto the legislation. To the former there is plenty they agree on and could pass and to the latter there's no reason why Trump would bother. So yeah, the GOP congress has a free a rein as they want as long as they can get it through the Senate. And when it comes to judicial appointments if nothing else, they will certainly make that happen. The bolded is why it's naive. Sure, Trump's honeymoon will entail passing some type of pointless tax cuts that hurt the economy (a GOP trademark) and some alterations to Obamacare (which frankly wouldn't be a bad thing). Gridlock and polarization aren't going to magically go away because there's now a Republican president. And the GOP establishment that just spent the last year plus opposing Trump still constitutes a large portion of both chambers. If you think it's easy to push through a cohesive legislative agenda with a razor thin majority in the Senate - and with a president that above all holds grudges - you haven't been paying attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 3 minutes ago, Mudguard said: They are protesting the result of the election, that Trump won. Actually, there are multiple protests going on in California right now. People were complaining that Trump's supporters wouldn't accept the results of the election if he lost, and that's what these people are now doing because Clinton lost. If they are protesting that Trump won, then that means they accept the result and that they are not protesting the legitimacy of the election. A protest for a fascist bigot who will cause economic catastrophe and who also won the presidency isn't the same as a bunch of his supporters protesting the legitimacy of the results. One group accepts the results, the other group said they wouldn't accept the results. Can you see the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wethers Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 3 minutes ago, Mudguard said: They are protesting the result of the election, that Trump won. Actually, there are multiple protests going on in California right now. People were complaining that Trump's supporters wouldn't accept the results of the election if he lost, and that's what these people are now doing because Clinton lost. I think people were complaining that Trump's supporters, under heavy encouragement from Trump, would arbitrarily and en masse declare the result as *illegitimate* if he lost. And there was significant polling (yeah I know) to indicate that this was true. Just protesting because you don't like a leader is not the same, and even healthy within reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fixit Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 2 minutes ago, Roose Boltons Pet Leech said: Some of us aren't Americans either. Just helpless spectators to a country that helped save the world from fascism go down a very, very dark path. In case you didn't notice, the KKK were backing this guy. Sorry. I assumed you was because such rhetoric is kinda widespread there from what I saw. Anyway, there's not much use in applying labels like communist or fascist to people it doesn't really suit. I mean, we can think of Trump whatever we want (I don't have much positive to say about him too!), but the guy's not a fascist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 5 minutes ago, Altherion said: Here's another interesting tidbit: according to CNN, Trump appears to have done better among both African-Americans and Latinos than Romney. Trump only picked up a percent or two of it, but those are substantial drops in support for the Democrats: 5% among African-Americans and 6% among Latinos. I guess the rest of the votes went to third parties. Not really. Notice that Trump and Romney's numbers are very similar. What happened is that Clinton dropped by like 10% among both groups. Basically, one of the things that seems to be emerging out of this is that the Obama coalition did not turn out for Clinton the way they did for Obama. Which may suggest that the Obama coalition was, well, about Obama and not a Democratic party coalition. At least, not to the same degree. This is what I was talking about wrt turnout earlier. It seems like the Democrats couldn't get the numbers high enough among their groups to counteract a surge among white voters. The voter turnout models for polling in general this election appear to have been wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 7 minutes ago, Roose Boltons Pet Leech said: Some of us aren't Americans either. Just helpless spectators to a country that helped save the world from fascism go down a very, very dark path. In case you didn't notice, the KKK were backing this guy. I wouldn't worry about him too much dude. As I remember he's basically just cheering on anything that fucks over the american government. It's been his thing. It's not an uncommon position for many people in various parts of not-america. The celebration of the election of dangerous unstable authoritarians to the presidency of the most influential country in the world kinda highlights the complete bankruptcy of the ideology though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fixit Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 1 minute ago, Shryke said: Not really. Notice that Trump and Romney's numbers are very similar. What happened is that Clinton dropped by like 10% among both groups. Basically, one of the things that seems to be emerging out of this is that the Obama coalition did not turn out for Clinton the way they did for Obama. Which may suggest that the Obama coalition was, well, about Obama and not a Democratic party coalition. At least, not to the same degree. And what does that tell us? That the people want the Democratic Party to CHANGE, steer away from corporate shills and foreign interventionists like Hillary. When the party had a candidate that the people perceived as authentic and aligned with their wishes, they chose Obama. I'll again remind that the same is true of Bernie who led Trump by double digits in the polls. Solution is real easy if you really think about it. Nominate someone worthy of respect instead of spent criminals like Hillary. DNC has no one to blame except themselves. Their corrupt kleptocracy bit them in the ass. Tough luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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