US Elections: Day dawns on Trump.

[Tijgy]

Trump got mail: 

 

[Gorn]

4 minutes ago, Roose Boltons Pet Leech said:

On the Sanders front - I think we need more detailed analysis before jumping to conclusions. I actually preferred him over Clinton myself, but I'm not blind to his weaknesses (age, difficulties in winning over minorities, his stance on guns that puts him offside with many Democrats). It's a mistake to think he would have been a silver(-haired) bullet, and had he lost, everyone would be saying "why didn't we nominate Hillary?".

In hindsight, Joe Biden might have been the best bet - but that is purely hindsight.

The bolded part is an advantage, not a weakness. Gun-control supporters will hold their nose and vote for a gun-control opponent, because it is No.1 issue for very, very few of them. Gun owners will vote against someone who they suspect wants to take away their guns even if they agree with them on every other topic.

I think it very likely that, if Clinton was a moderate on the gun issue, she would be president-elect today.

[The Marquis de Leech]

2 minutes ago, Mr Fixit said:

Cmon. Would Latinos and especially African Americans suddenly vote for Trump instead of Bernie? His losses among the minorities would hardly be that pronounced compared to the likely gains he'd have had among whites, leftists, and people generally dissatisfied with the DC establishment.

The point is that Latinos and AAs would stay home, because they don't perceive Bernie as understanding their situation. Bernie might well have lost Virginia, for instance, and while he might have done better in Ohio or Michigan, can you see him winning Florida?

[butterbumps!]

11 minutes ago, DunderMifflin said:

Dems might want to rethink the strategy of calling everyone but themselves a racist, I suspect it backfired hard this time.

yes, to be fair misogyny, xenophobia, homophobia and islamophobia played their part too.

but seriously, why  do people say that?   The campaign he ran is basically all about that.  MAGA = let's go back before the "others" encroached on our social standing.

Even those who allegedly aren't influenced by those issues still made the decision that whatever he brought to the table beyond those things was worth it to elect someone so obviously bigoted and hateful.  What the hell does that say about their priorities?

And what are these other issues?   Things like the economy?   Those who believe Trump is going to improve anyone's material life quality is grossly misinformed.   So ignorance.  

From where I'm standing, a great deal of Trump voters probably are some degree of "deplorable" (either dyed in the wool or in a more dog whistley sense- the people who think very racist thoughts, but don't realize they're being racist AF).  In the off-chance that's not at play at all, they are extremely ignorant of what they're getting into (those who aren't the top 1%, and even then, wtf).   I'm fucking livid.

[Mudguard]

It's pretty clear people are still in denial here and that they have a very, very hard time seeing outside their bubble.  Trump supporters occasionally pop in here to explain why Trump supporters are voting for Trump, but they are discounted or ignored.  Of course progressives know the real reason and know better than an actual Trump supporter, and it's because they are racists, sexists, bigots, deplorables!  Demonizing all the people who voted for Trump, as is popular in this forum, adds absolutely nothing to the discourse.  I agree with others that have said that this type of alienation and demonization of essentially half the country is harmful to their own cause.

[DunderMifflin]

11 minutes ago, Roose Boltons Pet Leech said:

If you vote for a candidate who bases his entire campaign on bashing minorities, don't get offended by accusations of racism.

 

Sure, on the same note. Showing that you have black friends that voted for you doesn't erase your own racism or that of your political affiliation. Judging from this election they arent even as good at hiding it anymore.

 

[The Marquis de Leech]

Racist, sexist bigots hate being called racist, sexist bigots. We get that. Doesn't change what they are.

[arya_underfoot]

Commiserations to our American friends.

I hope some electable Democrats rise up through the ranks by 2020.

[butterbumps!]

5 minutes ago, Mudguard said:

It's pretty clear people are still in denial here and that they have a very, very hard time seeing outside their bubble.  Trump supporters occasionally pop in here to explain why Trump supporters are voting for Trump, but they are discounted or ignored.  Of course progressives know the real reason and know better than an actual Trump supporter, and it's because they are racists, sexists, bigots, deplorables!  Demonizing all the people who voted for Trump, as is popular in this forum, adds absolutely nothing to the discourse.  I agree with others that have said that this type of alienation and demonization of essentially half the country is harmful to their own cause.

i agree that voting for Trump doesn't automatically make a person evil and deplorable.   But jesus christ, Trump's campaign was so overwhelmingly pro-bigotry, that it does really kind of say something about a person's tendencies that they'd be willing to vote all that bigotry in office for whatever else they misguidedly believe Trump can bring to the table.   It'[s really galling because this is truly a scenario where no one wins.   It's unbelievable.

[The Wolves]

1 minute ago, butterbumps! said:

i agree that voting for Trump doesn't automatically make a person evil and deplorable.   But jesus christ, Trump's campaign was so overwhelmingly pro-bigotry, that it does really kind of say something about a person's tendencies that they'd be willing to vote all that bigotry in office for whatever else they misguidedly believe Trump can bring to the table.

I told every person in my life that if you voted for Trump than you need to get the feck out my life and stay out. 

 

[shadowbinding shoe]

I wanted to ask those who know, can't Trump opponents take him down with the various rape and sexual harassment charges? If Clinton can go to court over a non-secure email account, surely Trump will suffer worse if those accusations have any substance? That would make his vice-president the new president.

[DunderMifflin]

3 minutes ago, Roose Boltons Pet Leech said:

Racist, sexist bigots hate being called racist, sexist bigots. We get that. Doesn't change what they are.

Of course they hate it.

Hillary supporters hate it so much they will do anything to convince themselves they didn't vote for racist. But they did.

[Red Tiger]

11 minutes ago, Mudguard said:

It's pretty clear people are still in denial here and that they have a very, very hard time seeing outside their bubble.  Trump supporters occasionally pop in here to explain why Trump supporters are voting for Trump, but they are discounted or ignored.  Of course progressives know the real reason and know better than an actual Trump supporter, and it's because they are racists, sexists, bigots, deplorables!  Demonizing all the people who voted for Trump, as is popular in this forum, adds absolutely nothing to the discourse.  I agree with others that have said that this type of alienation and demonization of essentially half the country is harmful to their own cause.

He made fun of the disabled, while the disabled get harassed at his rallies

Said the military should not just take out ISIS, but take out their families

Said bringing torture back was a great idea

He constantly swept the sexual harassment problems under the rug, while making a rapist remark that would have ruined anybody else's presidential aspirations

Praises people like Vladimir Putin

If a Democrat had done even 1 of these things, they could have kissed their campaign goodbye

I am VERY glad I dont live in the states right now

 

[The guy from the Vale]

Just now, DunderMifflin said:

Of course they hate it.

Hillary supporters hate it so much they will do anything to convince themselves they didn't vote for racist. But they did.

Only one presidential candidate ran on a platform of racism, though. And that's the point. Electing Clinton would possibly have meant doing too little against racism. Electing Trump absolutely means legitimizing racism.

[Free Northman Reborn]

1 minute ago, butterbumps! said:

i agree that voting for Trump doesn't automatically make a person evil and deplorable.   But jesus christ, Trump's campaign was so overwhelmingly pro-bigotry, that it does really kind of say something about a person's tendencies that they'd be willing to vote all that bigotry in office for whatever else they misguidedly believe Trump can bring to the table.   It'[s really galling because this is truly a scenario where no one wins.   It's unbelievable.

Fact is, social justice is not a top priority for all - or even for the majority - of voters. Compared to their own narrow interests - whatever those may be - social justice comes a distant second - if it registers on their radar at all. Social justice warriors are a minority, but can't seem to grasp that others don't share that imperative.

So it might very well be - in fact, it absolutely will be the case - that many people would have voted for a candidate even if it means various aspects of the social justice cause are not being served by that candidate. Not because they actively oppose social justice necessarily, but rather because they just don't really care. And are willing to sacrifice social justice if their own interests are being served, whether that be on immigration, gun rights or whatever.

And that's just a rational position to take, as a voter. Vote for whoever serves your interests best.

[DunderMifflin]

Just now, theguyfromtheVale said:

Only one presidential candidate ran on a platform of racism, though.

That's just not true though.

[The Wolves]

2 minutes ago, shadowbinding shoe said:

I wanted to ask those who know, can't Trump opponents take him down with the various rape and sexual harassment charges? If Clinton can go to court over a non-secure email account, surely Trump will suffer worse if those accusations have any substance? That would make his vice-president the new president.

I don't think those rape accusations or sexual harassment will mean anything. He's a rich, white male who just won the presidency. He will be okay. It means nothing to many Americans and our government that he has a pending rape trial coming up and has multiple sexual harassment charges against him. 

[Guess who's back]

wew lads. Thanks Americans for choosing politically incorrect candidate instead of corrupt and warmongering one.

[Liffguard]

1 minute ago, Guess who's back said:

wew lads. Thanks Americans for choosing politically incorrect candidate instead of corrupt and warmongering one.

I've got some bad news for you buddy.

[mormont]

32 minutes ago, Mr Fixit said:

Look guys, I don't know what's with this discussion. I'm not trying to sell you BS I concocted in my little kitchen.

So far as I can see, on the specific point of minority turnout, you very much are.

On the general point of whether Sanders would have done better, I refer you to RBPL's post. If you're saying with certainty (as you are) that Sanders would have done better, you're doing so on scraps of inadequate information that don't support that conclusion. When all's said and done and we know more, I'm fairly sure you will find that you are wrong, but there's a long way to go before we know for sure.

11 minutes ago, Mudguard said:

Trump supporters occasionally pop in here to explain why Trump supporters are voting for Trump, but they are discounted or ignored. 

I'm not sure I've actually seen a Trump supporter pop in and give a coherent reason that isn't a politer way of saying 'I'm a white person who dislikes being called out for my prejudices'.