US Politics: Lock Him Up!

[Mexal]

11 minutes ago, TheKitttenGuard said:

Does anyone think these accusations would not of warranted an investigations?  These are serious allegations made by the POTUS and regardless of circumstance is something that

The Hill article had this will be part of the overall investigation that the House was going to conduct.  It is not something separate and new.

The matter I want to see will be something of real consequence for it is a very serious charge.

You don't make a claim as fact with zero evidence then investigate afterwards to prove it, especially as the POTUS. This is another "3 million people illegally voted for Hillary" situation. Or a situation similar to "these 7 countries will stop terrorism; now go find me proof this is true". It's wrong anyway you slice it. 

[DMC]

9 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Sure, the Benghazi investigation was initially reasonable, but when you order investigation after investigation while turning up absolutely nothing, then it's fair to categorize that as an irresponsible waste of taxpayer money.

As well as a naked attempt to continue to keep it in the news to hurt Hillary, which is how the House Majority Leader himself characterized it.

[TheKitttenGuard]

1 minute ago, Mexal said:

You don't make a claim as fact then investigate afterwards to prove it, especially as the POTUS. This is another "3 million people illegally voted for Hillary" situation. It's wrong anyway you slice it.

Trump is making a claim as fact yet it is still an accusation.  That will be handled as part of the overall investigation into the issue related to Russia.

Worrying about it is at this point is giving some validation to the accusation.  I understand where people think everything will be Politicized but the fact is if we are at that point then nothing is legitimate and our current form of government should no longer exist.

[Mexal]

8 minutes ago, TheKitttenGuard said:

Trump is making a claim as fact yet it is still an accusation.  That will be handled as part of the overall investigation into the issue related to Russia.

Worrying about it is at this point is giving some validation to the accusation.  I understand where people think everything will be Politicized but the fact is if we are at that point then nothing is legitimate and our current form of government should no longer exist.

I'm not worried about the claim. I know the laws. I'm more worried about the fact my President makes claims like these based on right win conspiracy theories. I feel the erosion of my government and country every single day.

[TheKitttenGuard]

10 minutes ago, Mexal said:

I'm not worried about the claim. I know the laws. I'm more worried about the fact my President makes claims like these based on right win conspiracy theories. I feel the erosion of my government and country every single day.

That is why the consequence will need to be important.  I will admit the strongest measure at this time I can think of is a censure unless there is something of the President being derelict in not using the proper authorities granted to him when he makes an allegation of this level.

[Cas Stark]

Isn't it confirmed that the FBI sought FISA approval for some level of wiretapping at Trump Tower? 

So, we are back to perception. 

[OldGimletEye]

Just now, Nasty LongRider said:

It's what the R's in congress do!  They can be counted on doing this as long as they can get away with it.  Their base loves it.

For years we heard, Benghazi!, Benghazi!, Benghazi!, and emails!, emails!, and emails!

And the Republican Party was asked to stop by the reality based community.

And even after their guy won, probably in no small part because of BENGHAZI and EMAILS!, many Republicans still won't stop, wanting to railroad Hillary right into prison. They just won't let it go.

And now this Russia stuff is coming out.

At this point, I think, we just might have a little bit of a "Now youse can't leave" sort of situation here.

I'll never forget the look on the Republican Party's faces..................

[Gertrude]

41 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Sure, the Benghazi investigation was initially reasonable, but when you order investigation after investigation while turning up absolutely nothing, then it's fair to categorize that as an irresponsible waste of taxpayer money.

Exactly this. If an investigation into Trump can't come up with anything solid the first time around, I'm not really interested in continuing to pursue it. It becomes a waste of time, energy and money.  I think there's enough smoke to warrant an investigation and I'm willing to let the intel drive it. (i.e not rush it)

[Mexal]

5 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Isn't it confirmed that the FBI sought FISA approval for some level of wiretapping at Trump Tower? 

So, we are back to perception. 

Nope. It has been reported that the FBI sought a FISA warrant twice and that they were granted a narrow warrant having to do with the server that was communicating back and forth with Alfa Bank in Russia. It has not been confirmed that these reports were true or that Trump Tower itself has been subjected to any kind of wiretapping. Here is a good article on what the warrant could entail if granted.

[OldGimletEye]

Just now, Gertrude said:

Exactly this. If an investigation into Trump can't come up with anything solid the first time around, I'm not really interested in continuing to pursue it. It becomes a waste of time, energy and money.  I think there's enough smoke to warrant an investigation and I'm willing to let the intel drive it. (i.e not rush it)

There is a part of me that really wants to stick it to the Republican Party over this.

But, for the good of the country and for the future of liberalism in general, I do not want this to evolve into hysteria and bull crap. Liberals may regret that later, as it might be used by Russia hawks to argue to do something stupid later. Not that I trust Putin, I don't.

I do think this should be investigated and explored. But, if it turns up nothing, then yes, I agree, there are other fish to fry.

[mormont]

1 hour ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Who cares? POTUS doesn't order wiretaps, the FBI does.

A distinction that Trump and his supporters will do their best to blur.

[denstorebog]

Oh snap.

 

FBI asked Justice Department to reject Trump claim

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/322435-comey-asks-justice-department-to-reject-trumps-claims-report

[The Anti-Targ]

3 hours ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

 Who cares? POTUS doesn't order wiretaps, the FBI does. Just another baseless Tweet that will lead to nothing other than millions of taxpayers dollars being wasted on a ghost hunt.

I think you are forgetting the playbook from which Trump is operating. He's reading from the Nixon playbook, in which bugging political opponents' offices is definitely something a president should feel comfortable doing. And hence Obama must also be capable of thinking and doing the same.

Anyway, it took less than a week for a presidential President Trump to revert to type and lose that presidential mojo.

But to millions of people if Trump tweets it, it must be true. Which means Obama is guilty until proven innocent.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

1 minute ago, The Anti-Targ said:

I think you are forgetting the playbook from which Trump is operating. He's reading from the Nixon playbook, in which bugging political opponents' offices is definitely something a president should feel comfortable doing. And hence Obama must also be capable of thinking and doing the same.

Anyway, it took less than a week for a presidential President Trump to revert to type and lose that presidential mojo.

But to millions of people if Trump tweets it, it must be true. Which means Obama is guilty until proven innocent.

And to take that one step further, it was noted in a post earlier that Nixon often complained/accused LBJ of having bugged him, so the idea that a paranoid personality often accuses others of crimes they are themselves guilty of becomes pretty interesting in this instance.

[The Anti-Targ]

7 minutes ago, denstorebog said:

Oh snap.

 

FBI asked Justice Department to reject Trump claim

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/322435-comey-asks-justice-department-to-reject-trumps-claims-report

I wonder if Comey is starting to regret having thrown Clinton under the bus two weeks before the election.

[LongRider]

43 minutes ago, Triskan said:

It's amazing that so many people told themselves Trump wasn't Trump.

+1

QFT.

[Ormond]

2 hours ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

And to take that one step further, it was noted in a post earlier that Nixon often complained/accused LBJ of having bugged him, so the idea that a paranoid personality often accuses others of crimes they are themselves guilty of becomes pretty interesting in this instance.

Well, according to psychoanalytic theories of paranoia, that is precisely its basis --projection of one's own faults onto others. And unlike most Freudian concepts, it seems to me that research on authoritarian personalities shows there is some truth to this. 

[Zorral]

In these times, some of us might find this article on the history of the Department of Justice of interest:

http://www.stanfordlawreview.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2014/01/66_Stan._L._Rev._121_Shugerman.pdf

[OldGimletEye]

Now somebody needs some anger management classes:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/inside-trumps-fury-the-president-rages-at-leaks-setbacks-and-accusations/2017/03/05/40713af4-01df-11e7-ad5b-d22680e18d10_story.html

Quote

Trump was mad — steaming, raging mad.

Trump’s young presidency has existed in a perpetual state of chaos. The issue of Russia has distracted from what was meant to be his most triumphant moment: his address last Tuesday to a joint session of Congress. And now his latest unfounded accusation — that Barack Obama tapped Trump’s phones during last fall’s campaign — had been denied by the former president and doubted by both allies and fellow Republicans.

 

Quote

Gnawing at Trump, according to one of his advisers, is the comparison between his early track record and that of Obama in 2009, when amid the Great Recession he enacted an economic stimulus bill and other big-ticket items.

Hey man, when your party is just too dumb to fail, you really shouldn't have that big of expectations.

Quote

White House legislative staffers concluded late last week that the administration was spinning in circles on the health-care plan, amid mounting criticism from conservatives that the administration was fumbling.

Hey, lets not be too hard on Trump and the Republican Party here. The dog ate their healthcare plan.

Quote

Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-
Calif.), an advocate of improved relations between the United States and Russia, said he has told friends in the administration that Trump is being punished for clashing with the hawkish approach toward Russia that is shared by most Democrats and Republicans.

“Remember what Dwight Eisenhower told us: There is a military-industrial complex. That complex still exists and has a lot of power,” he said. “It’s everywhere, and it doesn’t like how Trump is handling Russia. Over and over again, in article after article, it rears its head.”

I've always appreciated Eisenhower's comments here. But, you know, this is really rich coming from a Republican, since the Republican Party spent years promoting chicken hawkery and criticizing Obama for being weak.

And the increased military spending is for what again?

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

43 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

Hey, lets not be too hard on Trump and the Republican Party here. The dog ate their healthcare plan.

Someone please induce that dog to vomit. That "plan" is fucking toxic.